The Many Faces of Bob Dylan

Maze Runner

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 11, 2012
Messages
5,489
Reaction score
609
Bono of U2, "The reason I never get tired of listening to Bob Dylan, is because there are so many of him."

This guy is divisive. How many people I know dislike his singing, don't care for his music, and really, just don't seem to like him. I'll say for the record that, for a guy who wasn't blessed with a great singing voice (in the traditional sense) he knows how to communicate a song. As far as his compositions, many believe that he writes good songs, but they're just not their cup of tea. Hard to understand, because he's written so many different types of songs--I think because he's been so prolific for so long they often don't know a big % of his songs. I'll go out on a long limb and say he is the greatest single songwriter in the post-standard era. He is a polarizing figure as far as his personality. Many people see him as aloof, belligerent, and just plain nasty. I believe this is because he's been unwilling to compromise himself for anybody's benefit. Maybe he believes that his only hope as an artist is to stay true to himself--and, to be allowed to grow as he sees fit.

How do you feel about Dylan? His music? Don't care?
 

popmuze

Last of a Dying Breed
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 31, 2005
Messages
2,597
Reaction score
181
Location
Nowhere, man
Having gotten the plum assignment of writing a book on Dylan, coming out in May in the FAQ series, I listened to nothing but Dylan for about six months. I'd lost interest in him in the '80s after being an enormous fan since 1962. Then I was amazed at the great songs he still had left; "Blind Willie McTell," "Dark Eyes," "Not Dark Yet," "Nettie Moore," "Every Grain of Sand," "Brownsville Girl," "Highlands," and "Mississippi," just to name a few.
 

melvin91

Registered
Joined
Sep 3, 2017
Messages
10
Reaction score
1
Location
I love Froot Loops!
Bumping to up my post count LOL.

Those people who don't like Dylan are simply not true rock music fans. I don't mean that disrespectfully either. It's simply true. His mid-sixties albums, at the very least, are mandatory.
 

Maryn

Sees All
Staff member
Super Moderator
Moderator
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
55,447
Reaction score
25,474
Location
Snow Cave
On the other hand, those who've been coerced into a half-dozen Dylan concerts by a spouse who's a major fan of his recorded music must note that not even the fan recognizes the music being sung unless or until you catch a line of the lyrics. Dylan changes the pace of the beat, the chords, the melodic line, everything! And his bus roars away from the venue before the attendees can even get out of the building.

Maryn, who hates him in concert but likes the CDs well enough
 

melvin91

Registered
Joined
Sep 3, 2017
Messages
10
Reaction score
1
Location
I love Froot Loops!
The concert experience is over-rated anyway, isn't it, no matter who the act? I've never been to one with good sound. But when Dylan reworks his own stuff, that's a feature, not a bug. See Before the Flood.
 

Maze Runner

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 11, 2012
Messages
5,489
Reaction score
609
Dylan is an unreliable performer. Meaning, he takes chances, probably out of boredom, and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Reminds me of a Neil Simon quote re: SNL.
I'll just paraphrase, but something to the effect of, 'half the time it's brilliant, and the other half it's terrible.'

But my favorite guys, and gals, are better live. Sure the sound may not always be the best, but the performances, the choices they make, when it works, for me, it's better than the studio recording.

And, Maryn, I heard a story about Ringo Starr at one of Dylan's rehearsals. Not playing, just listening. There was a Dylan song, can't remember which one, that Ringo especially loved, so as soon as he sat down he asked Bob if he was going to do it. "Yeah, we'll get to it."

It was a few tunes later that Ringo spoke up. "Hey, I thought you were going to play _____________ (Maggie's Farm)"

"We just did," was Bob's reply.
 
Last edited:

forsusan

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 19, 2017
Messages
98
Reaction score
6
Location
NE Tennessee
I have to reply; for me Dylan stirs up deep emotions, especially the Blonde On Blonde and Blood On The Tracks albums. Has anyone read Chronicles, his autobiography?
 

Maze Runner

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 11, 2012
Messages
5,489
Reaction score
609
Yep, I did. It's been a while, (so don't quiz me) but the voice yanked me in and pulled me through. Part of that could have been that the voice was such a familiar one. I think Dylan's got what I've seen in a lot of great artists, (maybe in all thinking people, period) and that's a determination to get to the truth. There was supposed to be a Chronicles II, but it never happened. I guess he's too busy composing and touring, at what? 80? to be bothered.

It's funny this thread should be revived today, because just last night I was thinking of the great rock artists, and stars, of our time, and who would be on the list. Besides Dylan, who else? Lennon, Hendrix, Springsteen, who else?
 

Kjbartolotta

Potentially has/is dog
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 15, 2014
Messages
4,197
Reaction score
1,049
Location
Los Angeles
I spent 17-30 positively obsessed with the Bob, enthusiasm distinctly tapered off after that but I still probably know all the lyrics off of every album between Times They Are A'Changing and Street Legal. And I actually really like his Slow Train Comin' period. And even if I can't sit through a full song of his anymore, I broadly agree with Maze Runner he's the best American songwriter/musician/poet of the 20th Century. Though like Steve Earle, I still like to claim Townes Van Zandt is better once in a while. I don't believe that, but then neither did Steve.

I think the man himself can be off-putting at times (A Topanga Valley session man I once spoke to told me "If you respect Bob Dylan, pray to God you never meet him", and then launched into a story about Dylan berating him not covering the trash cans and letting raccoons get in, with voice impersonation and everything). Well, artists have the right to be jerks, and I agree a lot of the haterism comes out Dylan's habit of never playing to people's expectations. Plus, he casts such a huge shadow that people are bound to want to tear him down.
 

Maze Runner

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 11, 2012
Messages
5,489
Reaction score
609
Amazing to me, KJ, that you know all those lyrics--I mean, the guy's been nothing if not prolific. My daughter, who (strangely enough) is a lot younger than I am, had a period like that with with Dylan (but she does that with everyone she likes) and she knows his music much better than I do, as I suspect you do, too.

Hahaha, I had to laugh about that raccoon story. I could tell you a few about some I've come into contact with that would turn a lot of people (even fans) off, but I just have to separate the person from the art. Otherwise, I might not be left with anybody.

I respect his trying to find something new in songs he's written and performed hundreds or thousands of times. He's just trying to stay fresh. I have more of a jazz background, and that's what jazz is--he's just trying to find find something new, so he doesn't lose his mind. But, all things considered, as a composer, a composer after the standards period, it's hard not to think he stands alone.
 

nighttimer

No Gods No Masters
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 4, 2006
Messages
11,629
Reaction score
4,103
Location
CBUS
Bono of U2, "The reason I never get tired of listening to Bob Dylan, is because there are so many of him."

I can add that to the reasons I don't listen to Bob Dylan or U2.

Maze Runner said:
This guy is divisive. How many people I know dislike his singing, don't care for his music, and really, just don't seem to like him. I'll say for the record that, for a guy who wasn't blessed with a great singing voice (in the traditional sense) he knows how to communicate a song. As far as his compositions, many believe that he writes good songs, but they're just not their cup of tea. Hard to understand, because he's written so many different types of songs--I think because he's been so prolific for so long they often don't know a big % of his songs. I'll go out on a long limb and say he is the greatest single songwriter in the post-standard era. He is a polarizing figure as far as his personality. Many people see him as aloof, belligerent, and just plain nasty. I believe this is because he's been unwilling to compromise himself for anybody's benefit. Maybe he believes that his only hope as an artist is to stay true to himself--and, to be allowed to grow as he sees fit.

Or maybe he's just a pretentious and pompous ass? :e2moon:

Which is okay. Lots of brilliant artists are asses and Bob Dylan is a brilliant artist. But for my money, only as a songwriter. He writes great songs, but even an at average vocalist like Jimi Hendrix did a clearly superior better version of "All Along the Watchtower" than the original composer.

Dylan's nasal, off-key, twang bugs me to no end, but Johnny Cash wasn't the greatest singer in the world either and he turned a weakness into a strength. Dylan's voice is off-putting to some, evocative, rich and emotionally charged to others. It's kind of like later Joni Mitchell whose voice changed after age and cigarettes did their voodoo. A fan knows their are ages of a popular artist and their songs and skills wax and wane as years go by.

Maze Runner said:
How do you feel about Dylan? His music? Don't care?

Dylan will go down in history as one of the most important singer/songwriters in music history. He's great. Just not great for me.

Bumping to up my post count LOL.

Those people who don't like Dylan are simply not true rock music fans. I don't mean that disrespectfully either. It's simply true. His mid-sixties albums, at the very least, are mandatory.

Disrespect taken here. I'll match my "true rock" bona fides with anyone at anytime and if I come in second, it won't be by much.

Nobody's music is "mandatory" and its presumptive to say it is. Miles isn't mandatory. The Beatles aren't mandatory. Stevie isn't mandatory. Joni isn't mandatory. The Doors and the Stones and the Who and the Beach Boys aren't mandatory.

I may not like your musical choices, but damned if I'm gonna tell you you've got lousy taste if you opt for Britney Spears over Barbra Streisand.

It's funny this thread should be revived today, because just last night I was thinking of the great rock artists, and stars, of our time, and who would be on the list. Besides Dylan, who else? Lennon, Hendrix, Springsteen, who else?

Joni Mitchell. Bob Seger. The Eagles. Aerosmith. The Stones. The Beatles. The Clash. AC/DC. Metallica. Chuck Berry. Elvis. Hell, it's a looooong list of who should be included as the great rock artists and we can debate it until the cows come home.
 

Maze Runner

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 11, 2012
Messages
5,489
Reaction score
609
NT, I've read on here before how you feel about Dylan's singing. You know you're not alone. But I maintain that for what he was born with, which wasn't much, he knows how to communicate a song. To me, that's much more important, and difficult than when you've got a Fitzgerald or Luther or McCartney voice to work with, but I agree that no one's essential. Elvis, for example, hallowed ground for some but not for me. I think he was born with a nice tone, but I don't value him as a communicator. To each their own. Billie Holiday is another one that was not blessed with a great instrument, but for me, NO one communicated a song as well as Billie did. Could be that those blessed with a great instrument feel less need to develop that ability. I dunno man, there's someone for everyone.
 

Kjbartolotta

Potentially has/is dog
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 15, 2014
Messages
4,197
Reaction score
1,049
Location
Los Angeles
LOL, I remember loving the Dylan voice back in my fanatic days, like I said, have not bothered to go back and seem how I feel about it since then. But I always enjoyed at the time, it wasn't something to get used to but part of the appeal. Remember how he went through that whole 'country gentleman' period with the smoother voice? Never added much for me, but suited the period.
 

Maze Runner

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 11, 2012
Messages
5,489
Reaction score
609
What songs, KJ? I know he's sounded different at different times. Ha, Lay, Lady Lay he was almost a crooner!
 

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Messages
23,083
Reaction score
10,780
Location
Where faults collide
Website
doggedlywriting.blogspot.com
The thing that constantly amazes me about Dylan is how many of the songs I grew up hearing and assuming were written by their performers were really covers of his material. I think I got to the age of listening to music on the radio until well after folk had reached its nadir (folk was more my parent's generation, though I don't recall them having much Dylan in their record collection). I had no idea Jimmi Hendrix didn't write "All Along the Watchtower" until I was an adult, for instance, or that Manfred Mann didn't write "The Mighty Quinn."

I also remember his songs being popular at campfire sing alongs when I was a kid. I didn't really pay much attention to who wrote songs like "Blowing in the Wind" when I was small, though.

His ability to not only perform his own material, but to write material that others could endlessly reinterpret and reinvent puts him high on the list of all-time great popular composers and lyricists, imo.
 

Kjbartolotta

Potentially has/is dog
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 15, 2014
Messages
4,197
Reaction score
1,049
Location
Los Angeles
What songs, KJ? I know he's sounded different at different times. Ha, Lay, Lady Lay he was almost a crooner!

Yeah, that period. Everything from John Wesley Harding to Planet Waves, before the rasp started to creep back in. Some of my favorites, but there was always that element of affectation to it.
 

Kjbartolotta

Potentially has/is dog
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 15, 2014
Messages
4,197
Reaction score
1,049
Location
Los Angeles
Yowza. Joni has never been one to mince words (approaching Grace Slick levels of candidness at times), and always had a chip on her shoulder for being billed as 'the female Bob Dylan'.

:dreamy eyes:

I'll always love you, Joni.
 

forsusan

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 19, 2017
Messages
98
Reaction score
6
Location
NE Tennessee
As I'm reading the posts another album comes to mind, Infidels. This was produced by Mark Knopfler and Sly and Robbie were drums and bass respectively. Sly and Robbie were known as reggae musicians.
 

nighttimer

No Gods No Masters
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 4, 2006
Messages
11,629
Reaction score
4,103
Location
CBUS
NT, I've read on here before how you feel about Dylan's singing. You know you're not alone. But I maintain that for what he was born with, which wasn't much, he knows how to communicate a song. To me, that's much more important, and difficult than when you've got a Fitzgerald or Luther or McCartney voice to work with, but I agree that no one's essential. Elvis, for example, hallowed ground for some but not for me. I think he was born with a nice tone, but I don't value him as a communicator. To each their own. Billie Holiday is another one that was not blessed with a great instrument, but for me, NO one communicated a song as well as Billie did. Could be that those blessed with a great instrument feel less need to develop that ability. I dunno man, there's someone for everyone.

I dunno how well you can communicate a song if how you sing it sounds like you have a small animal stuck in your throat desperately trying to claw its way out.

Here Lies Bob Dylan: Great communicator, but sang like a yelping dog with his balls caught in barbed wire. It's a bit much to carve on a headstone, but at least it's accurate.

:evil
 

Maze Runner

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 11, 2012
Messages
5,489
Reaction score
609
I dunno how well you can communicate a song if how you sing it sounds like you have a small animal stuck in your throat desperately trying to claw its way out.

Here Lies Bob Dylan: Great communicator, but sang like a yelping dog with his balls caught in barbed wire. It's a bit much to carve on a headstone, but at least it's accurate.

:evil

hahahaha, I love you, man. You are once again putting me in a position to defend the indefensible, but I can't help it--I like the way Bob Dylan "sings" his music. But he's not really a singer, is he? He's a vocalist, and excuse the word, but he's a communicator, he knows how to communicate a song. But, hey, last night I found myself listening to Jimmy Durante (by accident) and I thought, you know, this guy moves me. Can't sing a lick, but I like it anyway. And this is from someone who really does appreciate a good singer. I like all the good ones, you know, so maybe no need to list them here. When we first had our exchange on this thread, that night or thereabout I happen to speak on the phone with a good friend of mine, a top jazz player in NY with whom I almost always agree with re: all things music related, so I asked him, "Hey, man, I don't think we ever talked about it, but what do you think of Bob Dylan as a singer? You like the way he sings?"

Well, once the derisive laughter died down, the offensive and highly insensitive ridicule, he said, "Not no, but hell no!" I know of exactly two people who like the way Dylan sings, and that's including myself. I won't "out" them here, though God knows it is a very lonely place, God, I'm so lonely, but I so much more enjoy listening to Dylan sing Dylan than anybody else sing Dylan, and I'm not even sure I can articulate why. The only thing I can think of is trying to compare Dylan's singing to what we might consider actual good singing is a futile endeavor, apples and bowling balls, I think. And I never knew about this, but recently I've come across Rollingstone's list of their choice for the 100 greatest singers of all time, and guess who's at number 7, right below Marvin Gaye, that's right, your boy and mine, the criminally misunderstood vocal stylist, Mr. Bob Dylan.

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/...ngers-of-all-time-19691231/bob-dylan-20101202
 

Dawnstorm

punny user title, here
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 18, 2007
Messages
2,752
Reaction score
449
Location
Austria
Well, I'm not the biggest Bob Dylan fan in the world, but I like him just fine, and I'm also fine with the way he sings. Whether I prefer him singing his own songs or not depends on the song, but I definitely prefer him singing It's All Over Now Baby Blue. I feel it's most obvious during the sudden octave jump in the lines in the chorus ("look out the saints are coming through"/"strike another match go start anew"...). They have a certain urgency with Dylan, but I find them mostly awkward/clichéd in other versions (Them, Animals, Byrds...).