Speaking of parents in third person

It's down to narrative distance. If you want your third-person narrator to feel more distant or external to the pov character (assuming the pov character is the person whose parents it is), then "her mother" and "her father" work. If you're going for a deeper limited third pov, one that feels more like first without the "I" pronouns, then having them referred to as "Mom" or "Dad," or however she thinks of them, in the narrative is probably the best approach. It might depend on the perspective of the pov character at the time too. For instance, I might refer to my mom (as I just did) as "my mom," when being a bit more formal, as when I'm mentioning her to someone who doesn't know me or my family well, but I think of her as "mom" and may refer to her that way when talking about her to someone in my inner circle.

If the story or scene is from the pov of someone else who would think of them as "her mom" or "her dad," of course, then that would work in a deeper limited third pov too.

This means (in multiple pov books) that characters may be referred to differently in different scenes, depending on whose pov the scene is written from. For instance, referring to a teacher from a kid's pov, she might be "Mrs. Smith," but in the pov of a friend, family member, or colleague of that teacher, she might be "Mary." From the pov of the kid's parent, she might be "Billy's teacher."

Referring to parents as Mr. or Mrs. works if you're in the pov of someone who would think of them that way, or are in an omniscient pov in a story aimed at kids (where adults are generally referred to with salutations.

[Edit--CF cross posted with me] As for "Mrs." being offensive, that's in the eye of the beholder. Many married women who use their spouse's surname still think of themselves that way, or only use "Ms." or "Dr." or whatever in professional settings. It's so ingrained to call a mature or married woman "Mrs." still that those of us who didn't change our names in marriage (or otherwise don't feel right using "Mrs.") generally just let it go when people call us that. I do correct when they call me by my husband's last name, though (or when someone calls him by mine).

The main thing is, the use of salutations generally conveys a formal tone, and if you want your pov character (or external narrator) to feel formal, it can work.

NicoleScripting said:

I'm writing a middle-grade story third person limited. When I'm writing dialogue where her parents are present, which is a lot, I use "her mother/her father" to indicate whose speaking. When I write about her parents doing anything I have to write "Her mother was/ Her father was."
I really don't like starting sentences with "her" that much and if it's annoying to me to write it over and over, I'm thinking it will be annoying to readers.

My question is: Is it weird or confusing to refer to her parents as Mr. & Mrs. ?

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It'd be weird imo, and offensive if you mean you'd actually use Mrs.

Why not use her name sometimes, and not tag every line. Use action to replace tags, and make sure you need the tags you have.

NicoleScripting said:

Thank you for all the helpful information. I was afraid it would come across formal. Think I'm just going to have to stick with her mom/ her dad for now and try to write better to avoid using it so much.

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There's a whole range of possibilities, none of which are wrong. It all depends on voice, tone, narrative viewpoint, and distance. And in spite of what some people advise, these things don't have to be unvarying throughout an entire novel, as long as you have a clear reason for varying it.

NicoleScripting said:

I'm sorry, didn't mean to offend. I've never heard that it was offensive until right now.

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I know there are people that still use it, but I was brought up that it was offensive, and I wouldn't put it in a kids' book as if it's a standard thing. I actually had this discussion with someone the other day, who said he remembered an elementary school teacher telling his class it was offensive and not to use it, but that his friends tended to call other kids' mothers that growing up and being corrected was rare (he didn't know if that was because the adults didn't want to correct kids who were trying to be polite or because they used Mrs. and thus found it correct).

When I was growing up, calling friends' parents "Mr." and "Mrs." whatever was considered polite behavior, unless they specifically said they wanted to be called something else. I didn't have any friends whose moms didn't use their husbands' names back then, though I did have a friend who had a different last name than both her parents, because her mom had remarried and taken her new husbands' name.

The term "Ms." was introduced so women could have a generic salutation that didn't reference them being married or not. It always made sense to me, since in this day and age, a woman's identity doesn't derive primarily from who she is hitched to, anymore than a man's does, and it's no one's business whether or not she's married (unless she chooses to tell them). But all it's done is add another possibility that needs to be accommodated on forms and guessed at when addressing an adult woman by last name in a formal situation. And a woman's preference of salutation gives away something about her politics as well as (possibly) one's marital status.

I believe "Ms." is standard salutation in business letters (for women) and in professional settings where one doesn't know the person's preferences. But I live in CA, and I know that many (possibly most) of my students still tend to call me "Mrs. My Last Name," not "Ms." or "Doctor," (the last being most appropriate in a college class). Some just call me "Professor" as well. So I don't think most CA (at least) kids growing up in the past 20 years or so are being raised that it's rude to call someone "Mrs." I don't know how commonly teachers in K-12 go by "Ms," but I'll bet the ones who do get called "Miss" or "Mrs" a lot too.

Regardless, the form of salutation a character uses in formal situations in a story (or whether or not they use one at all) will be dependent on their time, place, temperament and upbringing.

NicoleScripting said:

Really? That's interesting cause I was raised that calling a married woman anything but Mrs. was rude but I'm southern so I have to unlearn stuff all the time. Thank you for telling me. Learn something new every day.
All I can think of right now is that old Gilmore Girls episode when Kelly Bishop yells at Jane Lynch "I'm Mrs. Gilmore not Ms. Gilmore, I am not a cosmo woman." But her husband just had a small stroke I believe so that probably played into the reaction.

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I learned something yesterday I was all surprised by; tis life, hopefully, heh. As I said, I know there are people who use it, but putting it as a standard in a kids' book I wouldn't do. Though an agent could come along in ten seconds and say it's supposed to be there because they're super conservative or something.

Roxxsmom said:

When I was growing up, calling friends' parents "Mr." and "Mrs." whatever was considered polite behavior, unless they specifically said they wanted to be called something else. I didn't have any friends whose moms didn't use their husbands' names back then, though I did have a friend who had a different last name than both her parents, because her mom had remarried and taken her new husbands' name.

The term "Ms." was introduced so women could have a generic salutation that didn't reference them being married or not. It always made sense to me, since in this day and age, a woman's identity doesn't derive primarily from who she is hitched to, anymore than a man's does, and it's no one's business whether or not she's married (unless she chooses to tell them). But all it's done is add another possibility that needs to be accommodated on forms and guessed at when addressing an adult woman by last name in a formal situation. And a woman's preference of salutation gives away something about her politics as well as (possibly) one's marital status.

I believe "Ms." is standard salutation in business letters (for women) and in professional settings where one doesn't know the person's preferences. But I live in CA, and I know that many (possibly most) of my students still tend to call me "Mrs. My Last Name," not "Ms." or "Doctor," (the last being most appropriate in a college class). Some just call me "Professor" as well. So I don't think most CA (at least) kids growing up in the past 20 years or so are being raised that it's rude to call someone "Mrs." I don't know how commonly teachers in K-12 go by "Ms," but I'll bet the ones who do get called "Miss" or "Mrs" a lot too.

Regardless, the form of salutation a character uses in formal situations in a story (or whether or not they use one at all) will be dependent on their time, place, temperament and upbringing.

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Lots of parents I knew had different names, including mine, so I grew up presuming that was the norm. I knew people who had the same name, obviously, too, but was told to ask and that Mr. and Ms. were the forms of address unless someone was a Dr. or judge or had some title. I was also told that very soon we'd settle on either using Mr. for everyone or some generic unisex thing. Still hasn't happened, but nor do we all use metric for everything, which teachers also claimed was right about to happen, back when I was a wee flake.

I am seriously shocked your students call you anything but Dr. or Professor. That is plain fucking rude. I can't imagine how you get there -- I've been told the other way, like a teacher telling me sort of uncomfortably that she only had an MA, because the default for college is Dr. or Professor. My parents will come lecture your students on their manners for free, if you'd like.

NicoleScripting said:

My question is: Is it weird or confusing to refer to her parents as Mr. & Mrs. ?

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If the viewpoint character is the child, then you would use whatever the child calls the parents. Mother, Mama, Mom, Mum, etc. The occasional "his mother" is fine, too. Anything else is a violation of POV.

Only in omniscient would it be fine to say Mr or Mrs so-and-so, because the viewpoint is that of an external narrator.

NicoleScripting said:

I'm sorry, didn't mean to offend. I've never heard that it was offensive until right now.

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I would find it rude if a child didn't address me as Mrs. (or Ms.) so and so.

Roxxsmom said:

The main thing is, the use of salutations generally conveys a formal tone, and if you want your pov character (or external narrator) to feel formal, it can work.

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One alternative that's not often mentioned is the use of Mr/Ms (first name). It's less formal than Mr/Ms (last name) but more formal than just first names.

The kids in my neighborhood address me as "Mr. Jeff," which I like more than most of the other choices available.

It might be more of a southern thing, though.

NicoleScripting said:

I'm writing a middle-grade story third person limited. When I'm writing dialogue where her parents are present, which is a lot, I use "her mother/her father" to indicate whose speaking. When I write about her parents doing anything I have to write "Her mother was/ Her father was."
I really don't like starting sentences with "her" that much and if it's annoying to me to write it over and over, I'm thinking it will be annoying to readers.

My question is: Is it weird or confusing to refer to her parents as Mr. & Mrs. ?

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Hi NicoleScripting. Since it's third limited, then yeah, it would be weird and confusing to refer to her parents as Mr. and Mrs./Ms. (same as with first). She wouldn't refer to her parents that way and limited is from her viewpoint.

Maybe you could find other ways of varying things (so it's not all "her mother", "her father"). Some of the time it could just be she and he if it's clear enough.

"Her mother" and "her father" does keep more of a distance than "Mother/Mom/Mama/etc." (ditto for father) so if you want to get closer I'd go with the name she calls them (depending how deep your limited third is). The preference now seems to be for deeper POV, so it might help to get rid of that distance.

This may or may not be relevant for you/others reading, but my MC (both when it was in third and now that it's in first) calls his father "my dad" and his mother "Mom" to show the distance he feels from his dad and the close relationship with his mom.

Good luck!

CJ

I also didn't know "Mrs." was offensive to anyone. When I was a kid (late 30s now), Mrs. X was the polite thing. Now that I'm a mother of teenagers, all I hear the kids say these days is "Hi, Xx's Mom," as though my name is literally "Son'sName's Mom." It doesn't bother me though.

MythMonger said:

The kids in my neighborhood address me as "Mr. Jeff," which I like more than most of the other choices available.

It might be more of a southern thing, though.

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I've encountered it. This is a bit like some students calling their college instructors "Doctor First Name" or "Professor First Name." It blends the formal and informal elements.

When I was a kid, there were a few close family friends we were allowed to call by first name, but generally, it was Mrs./Miss or Mr.

My first experience with "Ms," aside from the magazine (which my mom got for a while in the 70s), was a substitute teacher who insisted that we call her "Ms" instead of "Miss or Mrs" She'd ignore us if we didn't use the desired salutation (with appropriate emphasis on the "Z" sound). As an adult, I totally sympathize, but at the time we thought it was hilarious.

MadAlice said:

I also didn't know "Mrs." was offensive to anyone. When I was a kid (late 30s now), Mrs. X was the polite thing. Now that I'm a mother of teenagers, all I hear the kids say these days is "Hi, Xx's Mom," as though my name is literally "Son'sName's Mom." It doesn't bother me though.

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The kids in my son's preschool called all of their teachers Miss Firstname (regardless of marital status) or Mr. Firstname.

So, we parents became automatically "Miss Liam's Mom," and "Mr. Bryce's Dad." It was adorable.

MythMonger said:

One alternative that's not often mentioned is the use of Mr/Ms (first name). It's less formal than Mr/Ms (last name) but more formal than just first names.

The kids in my neighborhood address me as "Mr. Jeff," which I like more than most of the other choices available.

It might be more of a southern thing, though.

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I think that's fairly exclusively southern (or some geographic area that includes the south or parts thereof). I've never heard anyone do that irl, but I've heard that it's ubiquitous in some geographic areas.

cornflake said:

. . .I am seriously shocked your students call you anything but Dr. or Professor. . .

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Interesting. Of course, it all depends on the professor. My daughter is a faculty member in California, and on the first day of class tells her students to address her by her first name. I also have an idea where that came from - one her professors during her Master's work is a friend of mine and her students addressed her as "Dr. Pam." In another case, a professor who is a very good friend of mine hired my daughter as a graduate assistant, and insisted all the students in the office address her as Wendy.

None of which answers the OP's question - sorry for high jacking the thread.

Comanche said:

Interesting. Of course, it all depends on the professor. My daughter is a faculty member in California, and on the first day of class tells her students to address her by her first name. I also have an idea where that came from - one her professors during her Master's work is a friend of mine and her students addressed her as "Dr. Pam." In another case, a professor who is a very good friend of mine hired my daughter as a graduate assistant, and insisted all the students in the office address her as Wendy.

None of which answers the OP's question - sorry for high jacking the thread.

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Sorry, I meant as the default form of address. I've had professors say 'oh, call me First Name' or introduce themselves by first name alone first day (Hi, I'm Bob, welcome to Proper Forms of Address 101) and those who don't say anything (thus everyone in the class uses 'Dr. X) or introduce themselves by full name with title or title/last, but students not using a title as the default when not told something specific otherwise I'm still ... and think it's rude as anything.

ETA: The "Dr. Pam" made me check your location. Southern thing. It is bizarre-sounding to this northeasterner, I admit, and I would quickly shut down anyone who tried any title/first name combo on me. Even my kindergarten teacher was Ms. Last Name. It's just odd!

Yeah that Mrs./Mr. FIRST NAME thing freaked me out when I visited Louisiana for the first time. (I'm a northeastern/midwestern person.) I was told to call the parents of my friends Miss Pat or Mr. John, etc. It felt so wrong! All I could think of was lawdy, Miss Scarlett.

That was years ago, but to this day I can still barely bring myself to say it.

cornflake said:

Sorry, I meant as the default form of address. I've had professors say 'oh, call me First Name' or introduce themselves by first name alone first day (Hi, I'm Bob, welcome to Proper Forms of Address 101) and those who don't say anything (thus everyone in the class uses 'Dr. X) or introduce themselves by full name with title or title/last, but students not using a title as the default when not told something specific otherwise I'm still ... and think it's rude as anything.

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It surprises me, too, but I see it a lot at the college I work at. It's really common for students to come in our office looking for "Mrs. Lastname" instead of "Dr./Professor Lastname." It's also fairly common for students who are looking for the advisor to call her by the wrong name altogether. Though, I've also been referred to as "Dr." by default a few times even though I'm a staff member with no advanced degree.

When I was a student, I defaulted to "Dr. Lastname," using "Mr./Ms. Lastname" or "Professor Lastname" if I knew they didn't have a PhD or couldn't determine that.

As for the Mrs./Ms. thing, I think unless cultural norms dictate otherwise, using Ms. as the default is best unless a woman expresses a different preference, and I'm always happy to see examples of married women using Ms. However, the main question here is what's appropriate for the POV and narrative distance. It probably doesn't make sense for a character to refer to their own parents as Mr./Mrs./Ms. So if you're in that child's POV and don't want a lot of narrative distance, go with what the kid would use. If you have more narrative distance or are writing in omniscient, you have a lot more flexibility.

cornflake said:

. . . ETA: The "Dr. Pam" made me check your location. Southern thing. It is bizarre-sounding to this northeasterner, I admit. . .

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Checked my location, eh?

Actually, "Dr. Pam" is from the upper Midwest, but I know where the "Dr. First Name" comes from. My daughter will sometimes be addressed as "Dr. First Name" as well. In both cases, it has to do with Asia. My daughter is from Việt Nam, where name order is the reverse of ours. When I taught at the University of Hue a decade ago, I was called "Mr. Doug" by my students, and I have heard students address my daughter as "Dr. Trang." In Dr. Pam's case, she taught in China for a number of years and liked the order of title and name, and encouraged American students to address her that way.

And yes - I agree with using the formal "Dr. Last Name" until directed otherwise. Though Wendy is a friend and colleague, when at a conference or other formal gathering, I will introduce her as "Dr. First Name Last Name." In so far as the correct title to use for a married woman, my preference is "Ms." Later this morning, I will introduce my other daughter when she addresses a Lion's Club meeting. I will present her as "Ms. Ngo."