2017 Hugo Awards

There are some really good works on the list this time, though it's clear that (sigh) the rabid puppies are still at it, with nominations for the Castelia House crowd creeping through. I don't know how a European-heavy membership will affect the voting this year. I'm guessing they're less likely to be impressed with the alt right, but TB lives over there, doesn't he?

Roxxsmom said:

There are some really good works on the list this time, though it's clear that (sigh) the rabid puppies are still at it, with nominations for the Castelia House crowd creeping through. I don't know how a European-heavy membership will affect the voting this year. I'm guessing they're less likely to be impressed with the alt right, but TB lives over there, doesn't he?

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The ballot seems less...problematic than it has in the past couple of years, though. (Just me?) Although they missed a few of my favorites, but they tend to do that even rabid-free. It's nice to see Dr. Tingle nominated, but he has some legitimate competition.

Not a bad lineup.

Why is Hidden Figures on the list under Best Dramatic Presentation? It was an excellent film, but not SF or speculative in any way.

The inclusion of a music album in the Short Form Dramatic Presentation is interesting. Has that happened before? (I'll have to chase it up. Clipping is cool, but I never even heard they did an SF concept album.)

http://pitchfork.com/thepitch/1483-...ination-matters-for-music-in-science-fiction/

This is an article I was just reading about Clippings and their hugo nom.

Good line up. Nice to see Ben Aaronovitch in there.

BethS said:

Why is Hidden Figures on the list under Best Dramatic Presentation? It was an excellent film, but not SF or speculative in any way.

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It is a fictional account of a science thing though.

And the Puppies (presumably) have nominated more dinosaur erotica. I didn't even see that the first time through. The author sounds like a sweetie, just like Dr Chuck Tingle, whose name was unfairly associated with the Puppies last year. Why do they insist on dragging innocent freaky porn writers into their stupid schemes?

BethS said:

Why is Hidden Figures on the list under Best Dramatic Presentation? It was an excellent film, but not SF or speculative in any way.

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Is there a Science Fact category?

Aggy B. said:

It is a fictional account of a science thing though.

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Sorry, can you elaborate?

BethS said:

Sorry, can you elaborate?

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As in, the category is "Dramatic Presentation, Long Form" and, although the story in Hidden Figures is based on real events, it's not a documentary - it's fiction. About science. Even though it's not "speculative" in the way Dr. Strange is.

Mike Glyer's FILE770 is my goto fanzine. And JJ (the apparent writer of the Hugo notice page, whoever s/he is) has done a great job. Each work has a CLICKABLE link to that work, and the longer works have links to a SAMPLE!!!!!!!!!

I've already sampled several and bought two books: The Geek Feminist Revolution, and Ms. Marvel #5. I'll probably buy several more when I get through sampling.

Several aspects of this year's list please me.

• Inclusion of Lois McMaster Bujold's Penric and the Shaman in the Best Novella category, and her The Vorkosigan Saga in Best Series.
• The inclusion of Stranger Things in Best Dramatic Presentation (Long Form).
• And inclusion of Hidden Figures in the same category.
• The great depth and breadth of the works in the Best Related Work category.
• The diversity in the Best Graphics Story.

Stranger Things was a delightful surprise to me when it came out, in its evocative homage to the '80s, and its expert handling of the evolution of the character of budding superhero, Eleven, played by surprisingly adept 12-year-old actress Millie Bobby Brown. (The series creators say she will have a prominent role in the second season, on which they are already working.)

I was also happy with the inclusion of Hidden Figures. It might seem strange to include a historical and nearly-contemporary movie in the category of science fiction. But it felt perfectly natural me. It WAS fiction, it's about science, and about the glory and costs of the exploration of space.

It also felt absolutely authentic. I was an aerospace software and systems engineer at NASA during the space shuttle era, and later worked at Boeing in the same job. I know the environment well.

Happily during my 25+ years at those two places I found the diversity situation better in both sexes and races in science and engineering jobs over the earlier years of the aerospace industry. The situation still needs much improving, but the fact that is much improved is heartening.

I think the Hugos have lost their prestige. The idea of 1600 aging baby boomers deciding the best SF/Fantasy books of the year does not inspire confidence. Worldcon has become a clique. I think the Goodreads Choice Awards are a better representation of the best books of the year.

Donger, the Hugos never had prestige with me. But, Heck, it's a popularity contest of fans willing to spend money to join a fannish convention. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. (That's true of all Best Whatever contests; they are the averaged opinions of some tiny few - including to my mind the Nobel Prizes, PEN award, the Orange whatevers, etc.)

Of course the Worldcon is a clique. It always has been; you must be a bit young to think it was ever anything else.

I agree the Goodreads awards are a better place to find books which more closely represent fandom as a whole. I troll them every year to find stuff that I've missed. But so is the Hugo noms a good place.

Don't be such a grouch. Fan cons are a good place for us fans to have fun. Nothing more. Don't elevate them to something more.

Aggy B. said:

As in, the category is "Dramatic Presentation, Long Form" and, although the story in Hidden Figures is based on real events, it's not a documentary - it's fiction. About science. Even though it's not "speculative" in the way Dr. Strange is.

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Yes, but since when did the Hugos include art forms that have no speculative elements?

DongerNeedFood said:

I think the Hugos have lost their prestige. The idea of 1600 aging baby boomers deciding the best SF/Fantasy books of the year does not inspire confidence. Worldcon has become a clique. I think the Goodreads Choice Awards are a better representation of the best books of the year.

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There's a bit to unpack here.

How do you know the demographics of the voters? Do they reflect the demographics of SF/F readers and/or writers generally? Why do you think no younger and middle-aged readers vote in the Hugos? Why would an award lack prestige if only older readers vote on it?

Helix said:

There's a bit to unpack here.

How do you know the demographics of the voters? Do they reflect the demographics of SF/F readers and/or writers generally? Why do you think no younger and middle-aged readers vote in the Hugos? Why would an award lack prestige if only older readers vote on it?

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I have been to a WorldCon. It was definitely an old crowd. There were a few young people, but very few. I just don't think a narrow demographic of 1600 baby boomers is representative of fandom as a whole.

nvm - derail; apologies.

DongerNeedFood said:

I have been to a WorldCon. It was definitely an old crowd. There were a few young people, but very few. I just don't think a narrow demographic of 1600 baby boomers is representative of fandom as a whole.

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Those who participate in the Hugos and those who attend WorldCon are not necessarily the same set. Lots of folks support and participate without actually going to the convention.

BethS said:

Yes, but since when did the Hugos include art forms that have no speculative elements?

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It has been awarded to non-fiction before with news coverage of the Apollo moon landing winning in 1970. That wasn't even fictional.

I can't disagree about the Hugos losing some prestige, but the goodreads choice awards are nothing more than a popularity contest. Not saying that's always a bad thing, but the name with the most fans is pretty much always going to win.

Aggy B. said:

It has been awarded to non-fiction before with news coverage of the Apollo moon landing winning in 1970. That wasn't even fictional.

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Ah. I did not know that.

BethS said:

Ah. I did not know that.

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I did not either 'til I was looking for the category definitions.

Interestingly the Best Dramatic Presentation - Long Form says: This Award can be given a dramatized production in any medium, including film, television, radio, live theater, computer games or music. The work must last 90 minutes or longer (excluding commercials).

As compared with, say, Best Graphic Story, which says: A science fiction or fantasy story told in graphic form, such as a comic book, graphic novel, or webcomic.

So, for whatever reason, the dramatic presentation category seems to be less focused on just speculative projects. (Although, it doesn't look like historical/non-fiction work appears on the ballot very frequently.)