Queer sex: How explicit?

I say be as explicit as you feel is necessary - your story will go through numerous drafts and beta reads, and there will always be time to take things down a notch or be even more descriptive before querying, going on sub etc.

Write it how it needs to be. If it's too strong your editor or agent will talk to you about it.

I don't think that's much help, sorry. But really, right now, writing it to feel honest and true is the best that you can do.

Yup, be as explicit as the story calls for.

The real line I feel is not so much how is shown onscreen, but the mood of it. It shouldn't be sexy in the way that say erotic romance or full out erotica is sexy. But it should be a genuine moment between characters with equal time given to the emotional moment as the physical one.

When the Moon was Our is YA with beautifully handled sex between a girl and trans boy. If you've not read it, it might give you some ideas for style?

*waves* So I have some experience in this area. My YA debut three years ago was (at the time) one of the few books out there with a f/f love scene that does not fade to black. I'd say it's fairly descriptive, but through a romantic lens because it's a culmination of many years of longing/denial.

IMO, writing queer sex should be approached the same as writing straight sex in terms of explicitness and what is and isn't allowed re: age group and YA sensibilities. Meaning: what fits the book, your characters, and the category. OP, you've honed in on the conundrum exactly: sometimes with queer sex you need to get a little more descriptive, because you're often opening the reader up to a new lens to view sex: a non-heteronormative one. YA sex tends to be very heteronormative and laced with metaphors, because the author is assuming the reader knows the end result is slot A going into slot B, so to speak. So you can talk in vague terms and the reader knows what's going on, they fill in the blanks. This is why straight YA couples tend to go from making out to sex, which, if you read studies about teen sexual behavior, is often not how it goes down. There are different levels and phases of sexual behavior and intimacy, but in order to cover those things, you have to be more descriptive. Which leads me to: Queer YA sex often needs to be more descriptive, since, um, slot A going into slot B is not the end all and be all of queer sex (oh gosh, my cheeks are red! Sorry! I don't know how else to describe it without being inappropriate!). But what I'm saying is that you sometimes need to be a little more descriptive so the reader actually knows what's going on, since queer sex isn't the norm and they might not be educated about it.

And speaking of education...OP, you've already experienced how abysmal queer sexual education is in many countries these teens are reading these books in. Which means they're getting their sexual education from the internet, from their peers, and yes, from books--fiction and non-fiction. So a well-thought out, emotional love scene that doesn't fade to black? Can be a really powerful thing. It can also be a learning experience in a way, too.

I have never had a problem with my editors in the past in regards to queer love scenes that don't fade to black. But I had a very lovely editor work on my queer debut who understood how important that love scene was. I know I'd never have a problem with anything I wrote with my agent, either. If an editor or an agent had a problem with a YA appropriate not-fade-to-black queer love scene that fit in the narrative, they likely aren't the right editor or agent for you.

When it comes to YA love scenes, I like to keep an 80% emotion and feeling, 20% description ratio. Obviously not a hard and fast rule, but keeping that percentage in mind helps me. I write upper YA, though, so that's definitely a factor. You can be descriptive, you can write the scene to its culmination, it just really depends on where the focus of the characters are. Emotion tends to come first, and the sensory experience second in successful YA love scenes.

I know there is at least one f/f love scene in Robin Talley's OUR OWN PRIVATE UNIVERSE, but I haven't gotten to it in my TBR pile so I can't say how descriptive it is.

kuwisdelu said:

It's the emotional development that's most important to me — in terms of how sexuality can be used to affirm gender (or do the opposite).

It's difficult to do that without giving enough detail to say how sex act A feels wrong, wrong wrong, but discovering sex act B just feels so right.

Which is made doubly difficult when even most adults would never even consider sex act B as a possibility.

Sexuality can be so confusing and scary and shameful when you don't know it's okay to want what you want.

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That's really well said, kuwi. Anyone would think you were a writer or something. Heh.

If I were you I'd write the scene how you think it should be written. Don't worry about what anyone else might think. Let your characters speak, make it beautiful and intimate and wonderful. It'll be good.

kuwisdelu said:

It's the emotional development that's most important to me — in terms of how sexuality can be used to affirm gender (or do the opposite).

It's difficult to do that without giving enough detail to say how sex act A feels wrong, wrong wrong, but discovering sex act B just feels so right.

Which is made doubly difficult when even most adults would never even consider sex act B as a possibility.

Sexuality can be so confusing and scary and shameful when you don't know it's okay to want what you want.

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I think you're in the exact right place and mind-set. You're asking yourself the questions a writer of queer fiction should be asking and you clearly are dedicated to creating a emotional, truthful experience in your book. With that dedication, you're gonna be great! That's exactly what we need in queer YA.

Once you get to the querying stage, feel free to drop me a line. I have a list of YA queer-friendly agents that might be helpful for you

I just want to drop a note that I'm with most of the posters here. Write the scene that your story needs to have, and don't make any concessions or edits simply for the sake of 'explicitness.' You mentioned that the sex in your work is important to the character's development and self-discovery. If the agent is the right one, they'll understand this and fight for it. If they won't they're not the right agent.

kuwisdelu said:

Sexuality can be so confusing and scary and shameful when you don't know it's okay to want what you want.

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This. A thousand times this! Write the scene you need to write in order to give your characters the development they need. It needs to be more explicit because of the lack of an assumed shared knowledge of what some sexualities look like. I firmly believe that trans kids need books like this; I also believe that cis-het kids do as well. The 'assumed shared knowledge thing', as I so eloquently put it(!), creates a hazy mystery over sexuality, when I believe what we need is to see characters knowing their bodies and desires, exploring these with other consenting characters, and freeing themselves of shame and guilt in the process.

kuwisdelu said:

It's the emotional development that's most important to me — in terms of how sexuality can be used to affirm gender (or do the opposite).

It's difficult to do that without giving enough detail to say how sex act A feels wrong, wrong wrong, but discovering sex act B just feels so right.

Which is made doubly difficult when even most adults would never even consider sex act B as a possibility.

Sexuality can be so confusing and scary and shameful when you don't know it's okay to want what you want.

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I think this is a great example of a time when showing sex more explicitly is integral to character and story development. My advice is to write it the way you feel is best.

tsharpe said:

I know there is at least one f/f love scene in Robin Talley's OUR OWN PRIVATE UNIVERSE, but I haven't gotten to it in my TBR pile so I can't say how descriptive it is.

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I'm not all the way through it yet, but there are at least two so far... while they're both fairly hot and heavy, the second is maybe the most explicit I've seen in YA, including manual penetration (and safe sex! Yay!). Talley does a very nice job of slowly ramping up the heat throughout the book and having it keep pace with the developing relationship.

kuwisdelu said:

Ya'll are right and I'm probably overthinking it.
Although it's not sex, If I Was Your Girl did have a scene with Amanda dilating, which is more than I was expecting.

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Sarah McCarry's About A Girl has a short cis-girl/trans-boy sex scene near the beginning. Also, Austin Chant's Peter Darling has a nice m/m cis/trans sex scene, and while he doesn't classify the book as YA, I think it would be an appropriate comp for the upper YA market. That's all I can think of right off for specifically trans sex in this demographic.

(I. W. Grigorio's None of the Above has a scene with the intersex protag dilating as well, just as a point of interest.)

And I'm with the others: write what you feel the story requires.

Out of interest, is there any reason queer sex should be approached differently than straight sex? Is it a worry about turning off a conservative or religious audience? (The characters themselves might have already done that though?)

kuwisdelu said:

It's the emotional development that's most important to me — in terms of how sexuality can be used to affirm gender (or do the opposite).

It's difficult to do that without giving enough detail to say how sex act A feels wrong, wrong wrong, but discovering sex act B just feels so right.

Which is made doubly difficult when even most adults would never even consider sex act B as a possibility.

Sexuality can be so confusing and scary and shameful when you don't know it's okay to want what you want.

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This sounds like the core of your theme, and I love it. I hope you make this happen.

I agree with the others to write it as you see fit - as the story requires. But also take heart in this, since you seem to be considering this from a publishing perspective: While I think publishers are turned off to explicit sex in YA if it's merely gratuitous, they're more likely to champion it if the work as a whole is seen as fresh and honest and boundary-pushing for the right reasons. Those books make headlines and win awards. It sounds like you're aiming for the latter, and if so, I think more explicit sex will be acceptable. I certainly hope so, anyway.

ETA: Last year, I saw the most explicitly sexual YA book I've ever read win the Goodreads Readers' Choice award for best YA Fantasy (A Court of Mist and Fury). I would argue that the sex in that book wasn't gratuitous, as it underscored several mature themes going on, such as personal agency and even sexual empowerment. What I also found interesting about the sexual aspect, from a writer's point of view, was *spoiler*: not so much the sex acts themselves but the little things, like her getting wet at his touch, him fondling her breasts, and the times they talk about their desire for each other - those kinds of things are still unusual in YA as far as my reading has gone, anyway.) Granted, it's an idealized fantasy romance between a heteronormative, supernatural couple, so perhaps it's very different from what you're attempting, but I mention it because I am curious to see how the publishing world responds - whether more explicit sex in YA will become more widely accepted.