Infodumps in sci-fi?

Providing information is different from an info dump. Work it into the story instead of having a long exposition in "as you know Bob" fashion. I expect to have some things explained, but pages and pages of an info dump turn me off.

Define "info dump."

Are you talking about Galadriel expositing the history of the One Ring, or background scattered throughout a scene where something actually happens?

Shadowmoo said:

Can you specify what you mean by 'relates to the POV character' to a novice?

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I'm not D, but what he means is, only give information as it's relevant. If the MC doesn't know or need to know the intricate inner workings of the enemy spaceship, then don't go into paragraphs describing it. He, and probably we, don't need to know where the Nerandrians keep their bathrooms and their toilet habits unless your MC, Jim Bob, is the Nerandrian's new plumber.

Maggie Maxwell said:

I'm not D, but what he means is, only give information as it's relevant. If the MC doesn't know or need to know the intricate inner workings of the enemy spaceship, then don't go into paragraphs describing it. He, and probably we, don't need to know where the Nerandrians keep their bathrooms and their toilet habits unless your MC, Jim Bob, is the Nerandrian's new plumber.

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This is why I asked for OP's definition, because I wouldn't call what you describe an info dump. "Info dump," to me, suggests large swaths of text whose entire purpose is to give background to the universe I'm going to be reading about, with little or no involvement of character or story.

It can work in the movies, interestingly enough, but I think with prose it's almost always a mistake.

Info dumping is like cilantro. Some people love it everywhere, others say 'never, ever, ever,' and most people will agree it's fine in moderate amounts in appropriate conditions.

Info dump / exposition tolerance varies by genre. SF readers are probably the most tolerant of it, as for us the basic world-building premise that sets up the story is half the fun.

If information being passed to the reader rises to the level of "info dump," odds are good that Something's Gone Wrong. There are ways to convey information and build a world without slamming on the brakes and dumping unfiltered explanations in the middle of the text, like a lecture. (Even a lecture can be made relevant and interesting... though one must be very, very careful using the tactic in fiction, lest you sound like you're lecturing the reader, not portraying characters.) Do not underestimate your readers, or overestimate what they need to know to immerse in your story.

My definition of "infodump" is "a big stretch of the author telling the reader facts".

And when it's defined like that, I generally say it's a bad idea in a novel. "Show, don't tell" just means "engage the reader's imagination", and having one's imagination stimulated is an important part of why people consume art. When you tell them facts instead, you're triggering different parts of the brain, and that may not be the sort of brain-stimulation the reader wanted from your work of art.

But that said, infodumps can be done in an interesting fashion, and as long as the reader finds it interesting, there's no merit in trying to be pure about this. I would think readers of non-fiction would have a lot more patience for infodumps in their fiction, because they're already the sort of person who finds it fun to be told a lot of facts they didn't know. Someone who only reads fiction may find it dry and aggravating, however, because you're giving them exactly the sort of experience they've already tried to opt out of based on their personal tastes.

Brightdreamer said:

If information being passed to the reader rises to the level of "info dump," odds are good that Something's Gone Wrong.

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Pretty much this. There are ways to pass on the vital background information on the great galactic war, but oft times, it'd not even necessary. Writers tend to want to share all their great and wonderful ideas all at once, even when it's not needed, or actually clogs up the pacing of the story for no benefit beyond, 'check all this out!'

I voted no. If information is being passed to the reader in an interesting way that feels organic to the story and doesn't halt its forward momentum, then it's not (imo) an infodump. By definition, infodumps are when it's done in clumsy, obvious, or boring way, and that's never a good thing (in my opinion). Little dribbles of information that seem to flow from the perceptions and personality of the pov characters, or from the story itself, are what I've always been told is best.

Having said this, I've read books that do err, imo, on the side of too much telling and not enough showing that are nonetheless successful. I'm reading a bestselling and well-regarded fantasy novel right now where I'm 100 pages in (it's a 900 page book), and I'm still not sure what the plot is, exactly. So far it's all backstory, with the protagonist describing her childhood and indenture/training to be some kind of courtesan and spy. As of yet, I've no idea what she wants or what is stopping her from getting it, or even who the antagonist is (if there is one). It pretty much breaks every rule we're told to follow as as SFF writers hoping to sell a debut novel. However, I believe this novel is the author's debut, and it netted them a three-book contract with a huge SFF publisher too, and not all that long ago.

I'm still reading because the writing is lovely and the world-building interesting, so it's keeping me on the hook thus far, eagerly waiting for the character to do something (and wondering what it will be when she does). The feel of the book would definitely be different, much less "literary," if it were more scene driven and opens whenever the story really starts.

So if you're including a lot of something that many readers would count as info dumps in a SF or F novel, make sure you're writing with a very literary and evocative style, and make sure your world is so darned interesting that readers won't mind spending tens of thousands of words in description and summary that skips years between chapters.

I put maybe, almost put yes. Last I checked, Neal Stephenson was doing perfectly well for himself. Sometimes, I feel like writers trying to avoid them can lead to just as much hard-going. Here's a link.

http://io9.gizmodo.com/5481558/20-great-infodumps-from-science-fiction-novels

I voted no, but almost voted for 'use carefully'. I am in between. I would say no to too many. You can probably get away with 1 or 2 once the plot is underway, if they are not too long. Non-science people, like me, will probably skip over them. If there are too many, or if they are too long, I might stop reading. IMHO, it may be best to weave in snippets of information throughout the story, rather than stop the story for an info. dump. But like the above post mentions, some writers can get away with breaking the rules. However, for newcomers, it might be safer to stick with the rules, and then try breaking them once you have a readership. Just my 2 cents.

I voted no.

Dump is something you do with something you don't need where you don't need it, and as such, its not somewhere you want to spend any amount of time. To my knowledge, no one ever called them an information jackpot.

As others have said, world building can be woven in to the narrative, the dialogue, actions of the characters and events that shape the story.

I like to think of it in terms of Star Wars (because I think of everything in terms of Star Wars).

Star Wars is set in this huge, wild, amazingly different galaxy (a long time ago, and far, far away). And we only ever get to see the very tip of that iceberg.

No-one really knows how Threepio's positronic brain works.

(Or, y'know -- that he even has a positronic brain, because I totally just made that up.)

If you only explain the bare minimum a reader needs to know about Korynth's (Purple, smelly whale-like predators that inhabit asteroid fields), then they'll fill in any gaps themselves. And what's really amazing, is that they'll fill in those details better then you can -- because they'll do it in a way that makes perfect sense to them.


Y'see -- there are info dumps, like:

[The TIE's] Primary armament was a pair of L-s1 laser cannons, coupled with a powerful sensor suite. The cannons were relatively powerful, and a well-placed hit on a starfighter or medium transport could damage or destroy it. It did not carry missile tubes, but such weapons could be added if necessary.

(Via: Wookieepedia)

And then there's information, like:

The TIE shrieked overhead, its deadly twin lasers narrowly missing Bob's fighter.


If your writing looks more like a Wookiepedia entry, then, IMO

* waves hand *

You may want to rethink your line choices.


TL/DR: Throw in enough to make it interesting. Leave the rest as an exercise for the reader's imagination.

I was going to use a star wars example too. An image in star wars, such as the toppled derelict AT-AT for example, that Ray had made her home, was worth a thousand pages of info dump.

It also depends on how a writer presents it. I have read lengthy pieces of exposition that were the best part of the book, and I have read other such that were painful to get through. Length and immediate relevance are also factors to consider.

I'm going to use Jacqueline Carey's first Kushiel novel as an example of weaving background info (whether it or Jay Lake's GREEN are the book in question above). I'm also going to be snotty as hell, so I apologize in advance.

Carey has a very defined female MC with a couple of odd rare gifts that her initial associates consider flaws. A genius exiled poet recognizes the child's potential and buys her indenturement, to train her as a spy and courtesan.Their world is a version of our Renaissance France with some key differences, and alert readers catch on quickly. There is defined villany of the 'court intrigue' variety, and a web of chancy allies and beloved enemies.

Note: I said 'alert readers'. SFF has always relied on different expository strategies and tolerances. Huge chapters of pure background are often awkward. But the 'subtle weave into the story' method can be too challenging for some readers accustomed to faster-building genres (contemporary thrillers and romance, for example, where the 'world' may not be that different from the reader's). SFF can require the ability to hold onto and arrange bits of information, while following layers of story.

I'm of the 'use carefully' camp on backstory. I also check my beta readers for similar views and abilities, because I don't want to get stalled explaining simple things. (That's for the glossary.)

But I also bowed to current conventions on openings, and truncated the first 250 words of a pitch contest entry, so it 'gets right to the action'. It had been a two-page set-up scene, but the people assessing it tend to be part of the Cult of the Quick Open.

I'm not widely read in SF, but I suspect there are some variations in general science concentration. The series I've enjoyed would probably be classified as diluted science fiction. Red Rising by Pierce Brown, for example. For me, much science at all is tedious. I need it woven into the story line in a tight manner, and it doesn't matter to me if it's specific. Perhaps your target reader here matters as to how you manage this? If you're writing for a casual reader of SF, like me, avoid that info dump at all cost.

MonsterTamer said:

I need [info] woven into the story line in a tight manner....

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I think that's the most important point, whether the info is short or long or even very long. Is the material important at that point in the story, so that the reader wants to know it? Does the author have a transition sentence or paragraph into and out of the material so the reader understand how info relates to the surrounding events?

And as others have said, is the info well-written? I've seen cases where the writer becomes stodgy in their writing style whereas elsewhere it gracefully moves the story along.

I had an info dump where I describe a city in detail. Its an unusual shape/design. Now I don't know the best way to go forward. I'll figure it out.

Oh there is one section of info dump I edited today, and entwined it in a dance scene, so the dance is acting out the info dump. Will probably need more editing but I like it.

I had an info dump where I describe a city in detail. Its an unusual shape/design. Now I don't know the best way to go forward. I'll figure it out.

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If it had a bearing on the story, like Minas Tirith did in The Two Towers, wouldn't it be necessary?