Need Feedback on Composition and/or General Badness

buz · Jan 29, 2017

Howdy-do...

So here's a question.

I hired a stellar typography guy to make a cover for me. I'm very happy with all of the text and surrounding swirliness (though I may ask him to tweak color slightly, but basically---AAAAAA).

But--he asked me for an image to put in the empty space, and I was kinda...buh? I dunno. I tried. And tried some more. Then it occurred to me I should probably hire someone to draw something. But since I'd already stuck my foot in it, I tried a little bit more.

So...I don't know. I did a thing. I'm basically asking if I should give up and hire someone or if this looks good. If the image does the beautiful typography stuff any justice. It probably doesn't? But I've been staring at it too long now...

Anyway. I've done a quick cut-and-paste of my image onto his cover mockup to give an idea of what it would look like as a whole. But there is some wonkiness surrounding the image himself--ignore that, if you would

(He will incorporate it into the cover better than this.) I'm mostly looking at feedback on a) whether the image itself looks amateurish and b) whether it fits in compositionally and stylistically. Like, if I should hire someone with a better eye than me, basically.

Doop. Anyway.

Here be the thing.

"My image" being the whale.

So. What do you guys think...?

Thank you for reading/looking

slhuang · Jan 29, 2017

LOVE the typography, as you know :greenie

I also love the image. I love it less as a companion to the typography, and I'm afraid I don't love it at all as an image for the story/genre itself (sorry!).

I'll address these separately --

Matching the typography:

* I think you need something that's a little bit more stylized rather than realistic. Something like silhouettes / paper cutouts, or some sort of artistic strokiness (that's a technical term), or something like the art in Adam Christopher's covers, or... something. This doesn't mean that you can't do the image yourself, but maybe you'll have to hire someone with Photoshop skill to adapt it, if you don't feel you have that skill. Dunno.

The image content:

* I don't like the whale as representing Numo (either genre or story). It's too... pleasant, lol. It makes me think it's going to be a sweet ballad about whales in love. Seriously, buz, the whale's only role in the story is to explode! ...Hmm, come to that, a dead whale would be better. But maybe not.

* If you want an "object" cover, might I suggest a dandelion? Or maybe even better, a wilted dandelion? A wilted, stomped-on dandelion? A dandelion shedding its fluff until it only has a few strange-looking spiky bits left? This could be done in silhouette or with a limited palette, maybe...
* What happened to the sketch you drew of Numo and Hammerfist? THAT WAS GREAT. I don't know if it could be Photoshopped / adapted to fit the space and the style, but I'd dig something like that too. It shows the creature-ness of it.
* Other ideas: a bloody knife? A raised creature-esque fist? A raised creature-esque fist holding a bloody knife? Something else having to do with revolution? I mean, this is an action-thriller-weird-fantasy-comedy-dramady with tons of feels; I think you need something in the imagery that directly subverts the "love" part, if you can. And bonus points if you can show off the world at all.
* Or, just a silhouette of Numo? Possibly with a dandelion? OR OR OR what about just Hammerfist's eyes surrounded by GLITTERY BESTIALNESS? (Yes I realize "bestiality" is the noun. "Bestialness" sounds more like what I mean.)

Mmmm, okay, sorry, I just tore apart your whole idea. I'M SORRY. *hugs your ankles*

dpaterso · Jan 29, 2017

I thought that looked lovely, lol.

-Derek

Silva · Jan 29, 2017

Um

GORGEOUS

I do notice the whale is a little off-kilter in relationship to the text. I do not notice that the whale itself is problematic, which it seems is what you are actually asking for feedback on?

However, I also like slhuang's suggestion about the dandelion because I am a sucker for dandelions and you could make the fuzz match the white text and the stem/leafy bits match the gold text Or even just have one dandelion chute lying there with the seed part golden and the chute part white.

But it's all so beautiful.

chompers · Jan 30, 2017

I love it. It looks like a literary book though, if that's not what you're going for. It also makes me think of Jonah and the whale.

buz · Jan 30, 2017

slhuang said:
LOVE the typography, as you know

I also love the image. I love it less as a companion to the typography, and I'm afraid I don't love it at all as an image for the story/genre itself (sorry!).

LOL, that's fair. You're probably right.

* I don't like the whale as representing Numo (either genre or story). It's too... pleasant, lol. It makes me think it's going to be a sweet ballad about whales in love. Seriously, buz, the whale's only role in the story is to explode! ...Hmm, come to that, a dead whale would be better. But maybe not.
* If you want an "object" cover, might I suggest a dandelion? Or maybe even better, a wilted dandelion? A wilted, stomped-on dandelion? A dandelion shedding its fluff until it only has a few strange-looking spiky bits left? This could be done in silhouette or with a limited palette, maybe...

LOL, oddly, I thought I shouldn't go with a flower because I thought it would make it look too "nice"/"soft". Pleasant.

But if there's some way I can modify it...I dunno. Whurrrr

It was initially a more humorous-looking dead whale, but I couldn't make that work either.

* What happened to the sketch you drew of Numo and Hammerfist? THAT WAS GREAT. I don't know if it could be Photoshopped / adapted to fit the space and the style, but I'd dig something like that too. It shows the creature-ness of it.

That would...require a LOT of modification, lol. But it's a fair point. I could see what could be done....

* Other ideas: a bloody knife? A raised creature-esque fist? A raised creature-esque fist holding a bloody knife? Something else having to do with revolution? I mean, this is an action-thriller-weird-fantasy-comedy-dramady with tons of feels; I think you need something in the imagery that directly subverts the "love" part, if you can. And bonus points if you can show off the world at all.
* Or, just a silhouette of Numo? Possibly with a dandelion? OR OR OR what about just Hammerfist's eyes surrounded by GLITTERY BESTIALNESS? (Yes I realize "bestiality" is the noun. "Bestialness" sounds more like what I mean.)

Mmmm, okay, sorry, I just tore apart your whole idea. I'M SORRY. *hugs your ankles*[/QUOTE]

LOL, it's fine. I went with the whale because it's the first thing I thought of, other than flowers (which I thought would be too romancey). It's hardly a great basis for coming up with a cover. I like your thoughts...I just have to figure out how to...do it.

*licks you hardest* Thanks love <3

dpaterso said:
I thought that looked lovely, lol.

-Derek

Hahaha, thank you

Silva said:
Um

GORGEOUS

I do notice the whale is a little off-kilter in relationship to the text. I do not notice that the whale itself is problematic, which it seems is what you are actually asking for feedback on?

Well, both. I've tried different angles with the whale and it always looks a bit weird to me. I just couldn't tell if it was because I was staring at it too long.

However, I also like slhuang's suggestion about the dandelion because I am a sucker for dandelions and you could make the fuzz match the white text and the stem/leafy bits match the gold text Or even just have one dandelion chute lying there with the seed part golden and the chute part white.

But it's all so beautiful.

Hmm, that's a thought.

Thank you, Silva.

chompers said:
I love it. It looks like a literary book though, if that's not what you're going for. It also makes me think of Jonah and the whale.

Hmmm, all right, that sort of lines up with what sl said above -- it's not exactly literary, so maybe even it looks all right, it sends the wrong message.

Thank you guys! I will try to get something else going...eventually. Buh.

Having to go to work is the inconvenientest...

Cindyt · Jan 30, 2017

I'm not keen about the whale but it has a certain pull with the typography and swirliness.

Alessandra Kelley · Jan 30, 2017

A whale skeleton, perhaps?

buz · Jan 30, 2017

Cindyt said:
I'm not keen about the whale but it has a certain pull with the typography and swirliness.

Hahaha, well, the typography I'm very happy with.

Alessandra Kelley said:
A whale skeleton, perhaps?

Worth a shot...

Thank you guys for your feedback

I really appreciate the look-sees. I might impede on your kindness a little further if I can...

I've slapped together a few more ideas. Again, quick cut/paste jobs and I didn't clean things up as much as I would if I knew it were "final" but just trying to get a feel for how these work with the typography and what sort of "feel" it promotes for the book...

What do y'all think?

1) Fire Poker & Saw

2) Fist & Flower

3) Skelewhale

4) The MCs in Hastily Scribbled Silhouette

slhuang · Jan 30, 2017

1) Too hard for me to see what this is. I'd ax this one.

2) LOVE IT. HUGELY LOVE IT. Idea, composition, everything. Maybe someone who hasn't read can weigh in on what it makes them think of the book?

(Note regarding what you said about flowers: I agree that you shouldnt use *pretty* flowers! But unpretty flowers I think are great for this, and #2 I think is perfect, but again, get a weigh-in from a non-beta.)

3) AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA I did a spittake on the bus over this one. It is such a perfect encapsulation of the spirit of the book!!!!

Again, get some not-read opinions, but I ADORE this. And the composition works so well with the typography.

4) Hmm, I love your art and I def think this could be made to work, but I think it would take some compositional and stylistic tweaking. Not sure what though. *unhelpful* For some reason it's also coming across to me as more static than the others.

So my choices would be: #2 and #3 are both fucking great imho, but get other opinions.

#4 I think you could figure out, and the image is supes awesome, but it's not quite grabbing like the others at this very moment. I would't pursue #1.

Note: I'm viewing on the bus on my tablet so everything's in thumbnail, which is good, cuz that's the size you want it to read super well in.

slhuang · Jan 30, 2017

Actually, now that I'm thinking about it -- can you change #4 compositionally so Hammerfist is overlapping the typography more on top? That might be all it takes for me to adore #4...

Alessandra Kelley · Jan 30, 2017

The fist one looks good, but I am totally prejudiced and partial to the whale skeleton. :heart:

Silva · Jan 30, 2017

I like #2 and #4 a lot.

Disparity of sizes in #4 might have more of an impact if flipped (smaller figure in the bigger space, bigger figure in smaller space/overlapping text a little).

be frank · Jan 30, 2017

Count me in for the skelewhale. Though I feel like the flipper's impinging too much on the "M" underneath. Curious: How does it look if you flip the whale so it's facing the other way?

My no. 2 choice would be (appropriately) no. 2. But IMO the fist/dandelion image should maybe be shifted across to the right a little. eta: So the wrist is sitting above "ox" maybe?

Mclesh · Jan 30, 2017

buz, I'm happy with your cover--love the typeface--except if I didn't know better, I'd think it was The Love Song of Humo and Hammerfist. I'd fix the Ns so they look obviously like Ns and not Hs.

As for the images, my favorite is #4, but if you could move the whole image over to the right a bit, I think that would work a little better. My second favorite is #3. Something about #2 bugs me (even though I totally get it for your story!). #1 I'm not keen on. It's just meh for me.

Overall, though, it's a gorgeous cover to go with a brilliant story.

lolabelle · Jan 30, 2017

As someone who (a) has no idea what your novel is about and (b) has very little knowledge of artwork....

I will say that I looked at the image in the first post before reading your post--and I just assumed that's how the book was supposed to look. If I didn't know anything else, I would have just said "Oh wow, what beautiful letters and a cool whale." Then my mind drifted to Moby Dick and Jonah. Not sure if that's helpful, but that's what happened.

I then viewed the other images you posted:

1). I can't really tell what it is and it looks weird.

2). Looks a little "power to the people" to me. Suggests to me it's a political book of some sort (maybe that's what you're after, maybe not)

3). I like that skeleton whale. It really makes me wonder what's going on and what the book could possibly be about...history? science? death? looking at the cover, I'd want to flip to the back and read the blurb.

4). No idea what this is and it seems messy.

Hope this helps! This seems awfully exciting!

lolabelle · Jan 30, 2017

Mclesh said:
love the typeface--except if I didn't know better, I'd think it was The Love Song of Humo and Hammerfist. I'd fix the Ns so they look obviously like Ns and not Hs.

+1 to this

I also thought it was an H, but it looked kind of funny so I thought maybe an N...but I wasn't sure...

ajaye · Jan 30, 2017

I love the skeleton with the heart, it screams weird and off the wall. I agree with BF about seeing how it looks flipped, and maybe curved a bit to sit in the space nicely.
Also agree I read Numo as Humo.
Also I need to read this book.

VeryBigBeard · Jan 30, 2017

I'd probably buy #3 purely on the cover, if that helps. I'm no expert in covers, and maybe that I'm irresistibly drawn to whale skeletons says something about me, but that's the truth. I'd buy it.

#4 makes me want to look inside. Haven't read this book. Have read other Buz, so possibly a slight bias here but #4 looks suitably weird. There's something promising about the two characters. I want to know what--and, by extension, who--they are. I'd read the first pages to see if the voice matched the weird cover. Knowing your voice, I'm 99% sure it would. (I also like that you drew #4. Not only is it gorgeous, it also seems to fit better. I have no eye for art so I can't really say why.)

I don't love #2 that much. It feels like it's trying to be thematic. Having not read the book, I get the sense that this is Relevant but I don't know that I'd be intrigued by it. This could very well be extremely subjective, though.

I kind of end up squinting at #1.

I didn't mind the original at all, either, but can't speak to its relevance.

All of them look neat in some way, and draw the eye.

Typeface is lovely but I also misred Numo as Humo.

Cindyt · Jan 30, 2017

Alessandra Kelley said:
A whale skeleton, perhaps?

It certainly go with the lines.

Cindyt · Jan 30, 2017

On second look, the fist and flower rocks.

JulianneQJohnson · Jan 30, 2017

I have no idea what the book is about, so I can't speak to suitability. I love the original whale, I think the entire cover looks fantastic. As for the other tries, I love the whale skeleton. The first one doesn't read, I don't like the fist/dandelion, whale skeleton rocks, I like the one with the drawn MCs.

Good looking cover!

Oh, and I thought it was Humo as well.

Bacchus · Jan 31, 2017

Hi Buzhidao, as a relative newb I am not up to speed on what this work is about so I thought the best thing I could try and offer would be my initial thoughts on what the book might contain when I pick it up at the bookshop, based purely on the cover.

1) Some kind of weird DIY/self-help/philosophy book - along the lines of "zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance" - how much I love DIY and how it's helped me reach a state of meditative tranquility with bruised thumbs.

2) M/M romance or dark erotica with a velvet fist in an iron glove motif.

3) A love story/romance based around archeologists or paleontologist, almost certainly experts in their fields - Indiana Jones without the action scenes.

4) For some reason this made me think of a series of childhood books (which I loved) about a neanderthal boy called Littlenose (of the Bignoses).

The original whale made me think of Douglas Adams; possibly something to do with the whale in the original hitchhiker book, or possibly the salmon of doubt. In conjunction with the title I would be expecting some kind of M/F romance, possibly set amongst innuit type people who were somehow forced into a more Western Society and displaced. If that's not it, I might write it because it sounds like a good read.

It is very good looking cover BTW, and I love the typescript, but I also thought that "Numo" was "Humo".

There seems to be a design link between the script and your avatar (c:

slhuang · Jan 31, 2017

Thought about skelewhale:

You have another novel in which half the characters are skeletons... would this cause confusion among readers if they read that first (in the future) and thought Numo was part of that world? BUT I STILL LOVES IT MY PRECIOUSSSSS.

I think I disagree with the people who said to flip it -- I think I like that it opposes the text angle. :greenie

buz · Feb 1, 2017

Wheeeeee

Thank you all so much for your feedback! I really appreciate you guys helping me on this. It sounds mostly like 3 is the favorite? Although, also, I guess SL may have a point about thematic issues (though, to be honest, in my head, I imagine the two books in the same *world* ((water deer? burrowing owls? get it? nudge nudge lolol)), just not anywhere in the same *vicinity*, but that's a technicality and probably not your point). Um, so--I played around with 4 a bit more as well.

I feel like an eye doctor... (1 or 2? 3 or 4?) but. Just a couple of modifications for anyone's perusal, if anyone has the patience left

Just fiddling with the image on my end, as the typography is the artist's to fiddle with -- I appreciate the feedback on the lettering; I'll pass it along and ask if a slight mod can be made

(Again these both would need a bit of cleanup on the details but...going for overall impressions)

1) Reverse Skelewhale

2) Modified Silhouettes

For anyone who sticks with me this far--thank you so much! And reppies will be coming in a sec

Need Feedback on Composition and/or General Badness

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