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vicky271

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Hello everyone,
Title is self-explanatory. Years ago, I could pick up any book and read it (i'm heavily in Fantasy and Children's stories). Now it's difficult to pick up one without rolling my eyes and setting it down. Today, I put down books that emphasize a plot line i've heard of a million times, or contain main characters with the same objectives as others in other books. In other words, stuff i consistently see over and over again. Surprisingly enough, these plot lines and characters are extremely common. It's annoying. I love to read.

I wouldn't bring this up if it had nothing to do with my writing. The issue is: This picky behaviour doesn't just affect my reading, it affects what i write. I can't write something without rolling my eyes and scraping it. I doubt all my ideas, and refuse to expand them because i'm afraid i won't execute them to my standards (or, won't execute them into a story i'd enjoy). This is becoming a pain. I'm watching my writing dream run down the drain.

How does a person overcome this specific writing issue?

Thanks! :)
 

Joseph Schmol

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Your post stirs two thoughts:

Groucho Marx once said, "I don't care to belong to any club that will have me as a member." Yours is not an uncommon affliction.

Maybe your inner writer/reader seeks to move on from Fantasy and Children's stories? There's literally a million books out there that won't closely resemble what you've already read. Maybe 'tis time for some new friends?

Best wishes.
 
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BethS

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Two things:

--You can't fix what you don't write.

--The more you write, the more you improve.

Tell your inner critic (which is a different voice from your inner editor) to take a hike, or equivalent. Think of your initlal words and ideas as Raw Material. They have to be hammered and shaped and polished before you can truly appreciate them.
 

CJSimone

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Hello everyone,
Title is self-explanatory. Years ago, I could pick up any book and read it (i'm heavily in Fantasy and Children's stories). Now it's difficult to pick up one without rolling my eyes and setting it down. Today, I put down books that emphasize a plot line i've heard of a million times, or contain main characters with the same objectives as others in other books. In other words, stuff i consistently see over and over again. Surprisingly enough, these plot lines and characters are extremely common. It's annoying. I love to read.

I wouldn't bring this up if it had nothing to do with my writing. The issue is: This picky behaviour doesn't just affect my reading, it affects what i write. I can't write something without rolling my eyes and scraping it. I doubt all my ideas, and refuse to expand them because i'm afraid i won't execute them to my standards (or, won't execute them into a story i'd enjoy). This is becoming a pain. I'm watching my writing dream run down the drain.

How does a person overcome this specific writing issue?

Thanks! :)

Hi vicky271. Having high standards and wanting to see something fresh are both good traits for a writer. Sure, you can get discouraged as a writer, as you're doing, but maybe just coming at this from a different angle will help. Look for stories you wouldn't ordinarily read and give those a try. Maybe switch things radically in your writing, go the opposite of the norm and see how it comes out. Hope it works out!
 

DancingMaenid

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I think there may be a few factors going on here:

- A lot of writers (and people who read/watch a lot of fictional media in general) find that over time, they become a lot more conscious of what's going on "behind the curtain." This has happened to me with horror movies--I love horror movies, but a lot of them don't scare me as much as they used to because I've become desensitized and I've gotten pretty good at recognizing the common techniques filmmakers use to create tension.

- You might want to branch out and read new things. Aside from the above, there could be a few factors making you feel like everything is predictable: the quality of some of the books you're reading might not be that great (a really good story can cast a new light on old themes or character types), you might be stuck in a rut from reading too much in the same genre or from the same author, or some things might feel more obvious to you because the stories are aimed at younger readers who aren't as familiar with the tropes. Some children's books do rely on themes or conflicts that might feel simplistic to older readers.

- Just like it's common to become more critical and aware in your reading, the same thing can happen with your writing.

Keep in mind that there are no truly "original" ideas. Just fresh takes on them. If something you're writing feels cliched or uncreative to you, keep writing and look for opportunities to take things in a different direction. But don't obsess over getting a good idea right away (sometimes you need to toy with ideas and write for a bit before you figure them out), and don't feel like you have to eschew anything that feels similar to what's been done before. Some things come up a lot in fiction because they work well. The challenge is keeping them fresh.
 

jiraiya-chan

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Wow, then you must be a really wide reader to have exhausted all the ideas that the author has came up with :)

But I do get where you are coming from though. Many YA series/books are perhaps about A.I., a rebellion against a post- apocalyptic society, or perhaps a murder mystery.

My guess is that if you're writing about these themes, it might get a little boring.

There are a couple of books, I've read though, that deviates away from these themes a little bit. They may be a little uncommon, but I believe they offer a fresher plot. They are:

1) The Boy at the Top of the Mountain, by John Boyle
2) Midnight Thief, by Livia Blackburne
3) The Giver, by Lois Lowry
4) 52 ways to Hate my Father, by Jessica Brody
5) The Wall, by William Sutcliffe
6) A Monster Calls, by Patrick Ness
7) All our Yesterdays, by Cristin Terrill

It is also common for you to *facepalm* your own writing. For instance, I can't imagine myself writing romatic scenes! And I am also extremely picky about what I write too. If something feels not up to standard, I'll scrape it. Oftentimes, its because I'm in the midst of reading a very good book while I'm writing and I suddenly realise how inferior I am, and so I scrape the idea. ):

I won't say that I have completely overcome this fear (I guess this is one way to put it). However, this is what worked out for me: I would read over novels and write my own at the same time. And when I feel that my work is not up to standard, I would scrape it and start a fresh draft. However, in my new draft I would incooperate some ideas of the 'better' novels that I have read and turn it into a cleaner version. Bottom line is to keep working on your draft, no matter what. Don't be afraid if your story needs tweaking (or if the entire plot changes itself); many writers have even admitted changing their plots halfway through. I think that blending others' work in your own (especially the unique ones) can really add flavour to your writing and hopefully make it more creative/original-like :)

On a side note, I will admit that I am never completely satifised with my work. When I read through my drafts, I always find it lacking in...something. It could be perhaps I already know the plot (since I'm the writer), and as such there is no suspense. So I guess keep that in mind the next time you feel that you're work is inferior.
 

vicky271

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Your post stirs two thoughts:

Groucho Marx once said, "I don't care to belong to any club that will have me as a member." Yours is not an uncommon affliction.

Maybe your inner writer/reader seeks to move on from Fantasy and Children's stories? There's literally a million books out there that won't closely resemble what you've already read. Maybe 'tis time for some new friends?

Best wishes.

Thanks for the quote and advice! I think that often myself. But i'm still drawn into fantasy words in certain stories. I may dive into other genres!
 

kaylim

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I would suggest picking up books at the library, bookstore, amazon, or anywhere really and reading those books to the bitter end regardless of how much you may dislike the plot lines, characterization, or whatever else. The logic behind this is that through being a discerning reader, you will become a better writer. As an added bonus, you will definitely sooner or later come across something that you do genuinely find interesting. I've also been using the goodreads website to keep track of books I read and look for recommendations that way. Good luck.
 

vicky271

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Two things:

--You can't fix what you don't write.

--The more you write, the more you improve.

Tell your inner critic (which is a different voice from your inner editor) to take a hike, or equivalent. Think of your initlal words and ideas as Raw Material. They have to be hammered and shaped and polished before you can truly appreciate them.

That is so true! I will remember that! I just got a killer idea, so i'll try to go with it!
 

vicky271

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Hi vicky271. Having high standards and wanting to see something fresh are both good traits for a writer. Sure, you can get discouraged as a writer, as you're doing, but maybe just coming at this from a different angle will help. Look for stories you wouldn't ordinarily read and give those a try. Maybe switch things radically in your writing, go the opposite of the norm and see how it comes out. Hope it works out!

That's the objective! I don't think i've hit the right note yet! Still trying! Thanks for the advice :)

- - - Updated - - -

I think there may be a few factors going on here:

- A lot of writers (and people who read/watch a lot of fictional media in general) find that over time, they become a lot more conscious of what's going on "behind the curtain." This has happened to me with horror movies--I love horror movies, but a lot of them don't scare me as much as they used to because I've become desensitized and I've gotten pretty good at recognizing the common techniques filmmakers use to create tension.

- You might want to branch out and read new things. Aside from the above, there could be a few factors making you feel like everything is predictable: the quality of some of the books you're reading might not be that great (a really good story can cast a new light on old themes or character types), you might be stuck in a rut from reading too much in the same genre or from the same author, or some things might feel more obvious to you because the stories are aimed at younger readers who aren't as familiar with the tropes. Some children's books do rely on themes or conflicts that might feel simplistic to older readers.

- Just like it's common to become more critical and aware in your reading, the same thing can happen with your writing.

Keep in mind that there are no truly "original" ideas. Just fresh takes on them. If something you're writing feels cliched or uncreative to you, keep writing and look for opportunities to take things in a different direction. But don't obsess over getting a good idea right away (sometimes you need to toy with ideas and write for a bit before you figure them out), and don't feel like you have to eschew anything that feels similar to what's been done before. Some things come up a lot in fiction because they work well. The challenge is keeping them fresh.


This is all very true! Thank you :)
 

vicky271

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Wow, then you must be a really wide reader to have exhausted all the ideas that the author has came up with :)

But I do get where you are coming from though. Many YA series/books are perhaps about A.I., a rebellion against a post- apocalyptic society, or perhaps a murder mystery.

My guess is that if you're writing about these themes, it might get a little boring.

There are a couple of books, I've read though, that deviates away from these themes a little bit. They may be a little uncommon, but I believe they offer a fresher plot. They are:

1) The Boy at the Top of the Mountain, by John Boyle
2) Midnight Thief, by Livia Blackburne
3) The Giver, by Lois Lowry
4) 52 ways to Hate my Father, by Jessica Brody
5) The Wall, by William Sutcliffe
6) A Monster Calls, by Patrick Ness
7) All our Yesterdays, by Cristin Terrill

It is also common for you to *facepalm* your own writing. For instance, I can't imagine myself writing romatic scenes! And I am also extremely picky about what I write too. If something feels not up to standard, I'll scrape it. Oftentimes, its because I'm in the midst of reading a very good book while I'm writing and I suddenly realise how inferior I am, and so I scrape the idea. ):

I won't say that I have completely overcome this fear (I guess this is one way to put it). However, this is what worked out for me: I would read over novels and write my own at the same time. And when I feel that my work is not up to standard, I would scrape it and start a fresh draft. However, in my new draft I would incooperate some ideas of the 'better' novels that I have read and turn it into a cleaner version. Bottom line is to keep working on your draft, no matter what. Don't be afraid if your story needs tweaking (or if the entire plot changes itself); many writers have even admitted changing their plots halfway through. I think that blending others' work in your own (especially the unique ones) can really add flavour to your writing and hopefully make it more creative/original-like :)

On a side note, I will admit that I am never completely satifised with my work. When I read through my drafts, I always find it lacking in...something. It could be perhaps I already know the plot (since I'm the writer), and as such there is no suspense. So I guess keep that in mind the next time you feel that you're work is inferior.

I'd love to say i am. Most books i pick up have the same thing written on the back, "War war war" or "special person must find special object" or "only i can save the world!" I get the symbolism behind it, but after a while it's like yeah, i get it man xD There's another crazy war and only some magical stone can stop it. I totally get you got powers NO ONE else has...but couldn't you have found something else?

Thank you! I will ^^
 

vicky271

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I would suggest picking up books at the library, bookstore, amazon, or anywhere really and reading those books to the bitter end regardless of how much you may dislike the plot lines, characterization, or whatever else. The logic behind this is that through being a discerning reader, you will become a better writer. As an added bonus, you will definitely sooner or later come across something that you do genuinely find interesting. I've also been using the goodreads website to keep track of books I read and look for recommendations that way. Good luck.

Thanks for the advice! I've been trying that recently. But, unfortunately, if i don't like the book, i won't finish it. No matter how hard i try. I've been looking over books at all the book stores i can find, hoping something will go from the "to-read" list to "finished."
 

VeryBigBeard

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There's a quote by Ira Glass that I like for situations like this--because I've felt the same way myself many times--that really gets to this.

Ira Glass said:
“Nobody tells this to people who are beginners, I wish someone told me. All of us who do creative work, we get into it because we have good taste. But there is this gap. For the first couple years you make stuff, it’s just not that good. It’s trying to be good, it has potential, but it’s not. But your taste, the thing that got you into the game, is still killer. And your taste is why your work disappoints you. A lot of people never get past this phase, they quit. Most people I know who do interesting, creative work went through years of this. We know our work doesn’t have this special thing that we want it to have. We all go through this. And if you are just starting out or you are still in this phase, you gotta know its normal and the most important thing you can do is do a lot of work. Put yourself on a deadline so that every week you will finish one story. It is only by going through a volume of work that you will close that gap, and your work will be as good as your ambitions. And I took longer to figure out how to do this than anyone I’ve ever met. It’s gonna take awhile. It’s normal to take awhile. You’ve just gotta fight your way through.”

I've heard this expressed in a variety of different ways by different people--authors, filmmakers, profs, and so on. It's related to Impostor Syndrome but I like this version because it gets at the real cause, which is that we all watch and read the masters--it's the only way to learn--and then expect ourselves to be right at that level. When what we produce doesn't measure up, we cringe.

The good news is that this can be overcome by doing a lot of work, turning off the inner critic, writing something different now and again, and so on. I find a routine helps. I also have the luxury of switching between gamewriting and novel writing, so when one gets stuck I tend to work in the other for a bit.

Th ebad news is that this feeling never really goes away. Outside validation can help, but people who are prone to this, psychologically--and there are many--tend to always have that nagging voice. That's why the coping mechanisms are so important. It's okay to have a bad day or bad week, as long as you have enough discipline to hold yourself to some sort of process that works. For you. There are a million tricks to writing. All of them are worthless unless they work for you.
 

Roxxsmom

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Thanks for the quote and advice! I think that often myself. But i'm still drawn into fantasy words in certain stories. I may dive into other genres!

Not to discourage delving into new genres, but there are some amazing fantasy stories that aren't about wars or quests to find a special magical object or whatever, but they may be harder to find in this era when more stories are purchased online, we don't have endless rows of new titles to scan in bookstores or libraries, and when sites like Amazon make recommendations based on books we've purchased in the past, even if we're kind of tired of those kinds of books and want something in the same genre but in a different vein.

Some examples of some more recent fantasy novels or novellas for kids, teens or adults that don't center around wars or quests I've read lately include:

"Every Heart a Doorway" by Seanan McGuire.

Mary Robinette Kowal's Glamourist History series

Marie Brennan's Lady Trent novels

Fran Wilde's Updraft.

Naomi Novik's Uprooted

Kate Elliot's Spiritwalker trilogy

Redemption in Indigo by Karen Lord

"The Drowning Eyes" by Emily Foster

The Goblin Emperor by Katherine Addison

"Hunting Monsters" by SL Huang

The Ocean at the End of the Lane by Neil Gaiman

Coreline by Neil Gaiman

Sorcerer to the Crown by Zen Cho

The Waking Engine by David Edison

The Alchemist of Souls by Anne Lyle

"Penric's Demon" by Lois McMaster Bujold

The Clockwork Dagger by Beth Cato.

I've got some others awaiting my attention that look promising too. The great thing about finding new authors to read is that it gets easier to find similar kinds of books after a bit.
 
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JCornelius

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Short stories to save imagination!

Most of today's sci-fi and fantasy tropes had been done to death by 1960, and this prompted a reaction called The New Wave of Science Fiction and Fantasy, with writers making deliberate efforts to not write banalities and cliches; exploring ideas and styles above and beyond.

Grab a story collection by Brian Aldiss or J.G. Ballard or Robert Silverberg or Philip K Dick or Ursula le Guin or M. John Harrison. Or Harlan Ellison.

An injection of short stories by highly talented people deliberately going against the established conventions can do wonders in jogging the ole neurons into transcending the banal.
 

Katrina S. Forest

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I get where you're coming from. I've picked up many YA/MG books that had a cool-sounding premise but then never really delivered (in my opinion). Here are a few kidlit recommendations that broke the mold for me:

Wonderstruck Novel by Brian Selznick -- unique right away in the method it uses to tell its story, one character's plot is written, and the other character's plot is shown only in pictures. I read almost the entire thing in one go (finally had to put it down because it was 2am and I couldn't stay awake anymore.)

When You Reach Me by Rebecca Stead -- This one is slow to start off, but it ultimately became the reason I'm still making myself read through the list of Newberry winners. So I can find more gems like this one.

The Phantom Tollbooth by Norton Juster -- I know most people have read it, but I never make a list like this without adding it, just in case. A fairly standard plot, for sure, but the colorful characters and amazing wordplay make it one of my top books period, for kids or adults.

Good luck! And when you find some gems of your own, come tell us about them, too! ^_^
 

Simone.Garick

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Hello everyone,
Title is self-explanatory. Years ago, I could pick up any book and read it (i'm heavily in Fantasy and Children's stories). Now it's difficult to pick up one without rolling my eyes and setting it down. Today, I put down books that emphasize a plot line i've heard of a million times, or contain main characters with the same objectives as others in other books. In other words, stuff i consistently see over and over again. Surprisingly enough, these plot lines and characters are extremely common. It's annoying. I love to read.

I wouldn't bring this up if it had nothing to do with my writing. The issue is: This picky behaviour doesn't just affect my reading, it affects what i write. I can't write something without rolling my eyes and scraping it. I doubt all my ideas, and refuse to expand them because i'm afraid i won't execute them to my standards (or, won't execute them into a story i'd enjoy). This is becoming a pain. I'm watching my writing dream run down the drain.

How does a person overcome this specific writing issue?

Thanks! :)

I don't think you can. Funnily enough, this tends to form the impetus for many writers. They are tired of seeing the same old thing and want to try something new.
MY advice is, suffer. Suffer through writing the cliches and standard plots. Endure reading through them and while you do. ask yourself.

"What is the smallest change that would make this tolerable to me?"

Start imagining the story tyou just read but picture it centred around a different character within the cast.

You see, You see there are three components to any story. Events, Setting & POV. THe POV is an important twist since you can btheorectically get two entirely different stories from the same settings and events just by looking at it from the perspective of a differnt character.

Stephen KIng did this to rather interesting effect in Cujo, wherein for some sections you see things told through the POV of the titular canine.

I do understand your problem. It becomes very difficult to get into books when you can see the plot telegraphed a hundred pages in advance. (I find this especially prevelant in YA novels). But it helps to take the time to appreciate why it has become such a standard. Understanding whgy a trope is a trope tells you alot about the expectations of your readers, as well as their desires. The simple truth is, the majority of readers out there will not read a story to experience or develop a different world view and perspective on life. Rather, they gravitate to stories that reinforce and validate their world views. Though very few readers will ever openly admit to this.

Understanding this is important and understanding what views they want reaffirmed is key. Once you can do that you can decide if you can reaffirm the views in a new way, or sneakily subvert those views. And the best way is.. again, to modify your POV of the story.
 

Simone.Garick

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Hello everyone,
Title is self-explanatory. Years ago, I could pick up any book and read it (i'm heavily in Fantasy and Children's stories). Now it's difficult to pick up one without rolling my eyes and setting it down. Today, I put down books that emphasize a plot line i've heard of a million times, or contain main characters with the same objectives as others in other books. In other words, stuff i consistently see over and over again. Surprisingly enough, these plot lines and characters are extremely common. It's annoying. I love to read.

I wouldn't bring this up if it had nothing to do with my writing. The issue is: This picky behaviour doesn't just affect my reading, it affects what i write. I can't write something without rolling my eyes and scraping it. I doubt all my ideas, and refuse to expand them because i'm afraid i won't execute them to my standards (or, won't execute them into a story i'd enjoy). This is becoming a pain. I'm watching my writing dream run down the drain.

How does a person overcome this specific writing issue?

Thanks! :)

I don't think you can. Funnily enough, this tends to form the impetus for many writers. They are tired of seeing the same old thing and want to try something new.
MY advice is, suffer. Suffer through writing the cliches and standard plots. Endure reading through them and while you do. ask yourself.

"What is the smallest change that would make this tolerable to me?"

Start imagining the story tyou just read but picture it centred around a different character within the cast.

You see, You see there are three components to any story. Events, Setting & POV. THe POV is an important twist since you can btheorectically get two entirely different stories from the same settings and events just by looking at it from the perspective of a differnt character.

Stephen KIng did this to rather interesting effect in Cujo, wherein for some sections you see things told through the POV of the titular canine.

I do understand your problem. It becomes very difficult to get into books when you can see the plot telegraphed a hundred pages in advance. (I find this especially prevelant in YA novels). But it helps to take the time to appreciate why it has become such a standard. Understanding whgy a trope is a trope tells you alot about the expectations of your readers, as well as their desires. The simple truth is, the majority of readers out there will not read a story to experience or develop a different world view and perspective on life. Rather, they gravitate to stories that reinforce and validate their world views. Though very few readers will ever openly admit to this.

Understanding this is important and understanding what views they want reaffirmed is key. Once you can do that you can decide if you can reaffirm the views in a new way, or sneakily subvert those views. And the best way is.. again, to modify your POV of the story.
 

vicky271

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Not to discourage delving into new genres, but there are some amazing fantasy stories that aren't about wars or quests to find a special magical object or whatever, but they may be harder to find in this era when more stories are purchased online, we don't have endless rows of new titles to scan in bookstores or libraries, and when sites like Amazon make recommendations based on books we've purchased in the past, even if we're kind of tired of those kinds of books and want something in the same genre but in a different vein.

Some examples of some more recent fantasy novels or novellas for kids, teens or adults that don't center around wars or quests I've read lately include:

"Every Heart a Doorway" by Seanan McGuire.

Mary Robinette Kowal's Glamourist History series

Marie Brennan's Lady Trent novels

Fran Wilde's Updraft.

Naomi Novik's Uprooted

Kate Elliot's Spiritwalker trilogy

Redemption in Indigo by Karen Lord

"The Drowning Eyes" by Emily Foster

The Goblin Emperor by Katherine Addison

"Hunting Monsters" by SL Huang

The Ocean at the End of the Lane by Neil Gaiman

Coreline by Neil Gaiman

Sorcerer to the Crown by Zen Cho

The Waking Engine by David Edison

The Alchemist of Souls by Anne Lyle

"Penric's Demon" by Lois McMaster Bujold

The Clockwork Dagger by Beth Cato.

I've got some others awaiting my attention that look promising too. The great thing about finding new authors to read is that it gets easier to find similar kinds of books after a bit.

Short stories to save imagination!

Most of today's sci-fi and fantasy tropes had been done to death by 1960, and this prompted a reaction called The New Wave of Science Fiction and Fantasy, with writers making deliberate efforts to not write banalities and cliches; exploring ideas and styles above and beyond.

Grab a story collection by Brian Aldiss or J.G. Ballard or Robert Silverberg or Philip K Dick or Ursula le Guin or M. John Harrison. Or Harlan Ellison.

An injection of short stories by highly talented people deliberately going against the established conventions can do wonders in jogging the ole neurons into transcending the banal.

I get where you're coming from. I've picked up many YA/MG books that had a cool-sounding premise but then never really delivered (in my opinion). Here are a few kidlit recommendations that broke the mold for me:

Wonderstruck Novel by Brian Selznick -- unique right away in the method it uses to tell its story, one character's plot is written, and the other character's plot is shown only in pictures. I read almost the entire thing in one go (finally had to put it down because it was 2am and I couldn't stay awake anymore.)

When You Reach Me by Rebecca Stead -- This one is slow to start off, but it ultimately became the reason I'm still making myself read through the list of Newberry winners. So I can find more gems like this one.

The Phantom Tollbooth by Norton Juster -- I know most people have read it, but I never make a list like this without adding it, just in case. A fairly standard plot, for sure, but the colorful characters and amazing wordplay make it one of my top books period, for kids or adults.

Good luck! And when you find some gems of your own, come tell us about them, too! ^_^

Thank you for the recommendations! I'll look these up and see if any make the to read list :)
 

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I, too, don't think I'm good enough...YET. :Hug2: What a difference a word makes.
 

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The first thing you have to do is ask yourself, what you're in it for. I think we all have moments of doubt for one reason or another, but for me, I write because I love what I do. I love my ideas, I love coming up with ideas, and I love expressing those ideas regardless of how well I feel it will sell or not. Truth of the matter is, there's always going to be people who hate it, but I don't care. If my novel doesn't even get one publisher to look at it, that would not make me love it any less. I write because I love doing it whether I publish or not.

What are you in it for? Are you in it to sell? Are you in it for fans? Are you in it for money? Or do you have a passion to tell stories regardless? Ask yourself that next time you feel like scrapping a story because you don't feel like it's good enough.
 
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rwm4768

practical experience, FTW
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I'm experiencing this same thing myself. There's still that gap between what I want to write and what I'm actually writing.
 
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