I feel like my dream is dead

Helix

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Rosepetal, might it be worth looking at how to condense your proposed trilogy into one book? Done well, it would tighten up the story and be an easier sell than three books.
 

RightHoJeeves

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If you were to reassess your attitude towards self publishing, you might find it a rather rewarding route. Yeah you've gotta do more yourself, but you won't have to rely on trade publishers. Yes, the people who work at trade publishers are good people who love books, but authors are just numbers to them. And that's fair enough, it's a business. I would operate the same if I were Random House.

But it's 2016, and you can take control if you're willing.
 

Helix

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If you were to reassess your attitude towards self publishing, you might find it a rather rewarding route. Yeah you've gotta do more yourself, but you won't have to rely on trade publishers. Yes, the people who work at trade publishers are good people who love books, but authors are just numbers to them. And that's fair enough, it's a business. I would operate the same if I were Random House.

But it's 2016, and you can take control if you're willing.

I would argue very strongly against the notion that people in trade publishing consider authors to be 'just numbers'.
 

RightHoJeeves

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I would argue very strongly against the notion that people in trade publishing consider authors to be 'just numbers'.

Sure, I used poor phrasing. I more mean that a company like Random House as an entity and a business would see authors that way.
 

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If you were to reassess your attitude towards self publishing, you might find it a rather rewarding route. Yeah you've gotta do more yourself, but you won't have to rely on trade publishers. Yes, the people who work at trade publishers are good people who love books, but authors are just numbers to them. And that's fair enough, it's a business. I would operate the same if I were Random House.

But it's 2016, and you can take control if you're willing.

Sure, I used poor phrasing. I more mean that a company like Random House as an entity and a business would see authors that way.

When you're in a hole, RHJ, it's wise to stop digging.
 

rosepetal720

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Well, after AW critters looked at my first chapter, I discovered some pretty obvious and easy to fix issues at the beginning of the book that might turn an agent away. So now I feel silly for overreacting. I'm probably going to move the prologue (which I haven't posted) to be later in the book, and I don't know what I'm going to do with the first chapter yet, but it'll be very different.
 

Jamesaritchie

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Your dream should not die because of one book. You have no learned that what you critique group says doesn't matter, what beta readers say matters even less, and only agents and editor can tell you the truth because they're the only ones who know the truth. Regardless of how most writers think it should be, hat's just how it is. So you sit down and write another book. Then you sit down and write another book. Rinse and repeat until the only people who matter, agents and editors, say yes, or until it becomes obvious they never will say yes. A dream that rests on one book is in trouble from the start. When ypou've written five or six or ten novels, and the same thing happens each time, then you can start worrying.
 

josephlaizure

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It sounds like you have two choices; revise or write another book. The fact that you have requests from agents at all shows that you know how to pitch or query; those are valuable skills that will serve you well when the manuscript is absolutely the best it can be. It's got to be to the point where you cannot improve it anymore.
 

V.J. Allison

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Well, that might be the issue then. Agents are looking for writing that is polished. It doesn't matter if the idea is original and engaging if the writing isn't as polished as the idea. The dream isn't dead, it needs some work. I recommend going on to the next book, and the one after that to improve your writing and then coming back to this one and doing a re-write with what you've learned.

This! I was in the same position as rosepetal, getting rejections over the fence despite being told my first completed manuscript was awesome by some.

Sometimes you just have to step back and set it aside for a while. A few months, a year, or even longer. If you're still working on that novel and are so familiar with it, you're not seeing even the most obvious flaw, like a correctly misspelled word used in the wrong context.

A full rewrite may be necessary. If it's being rejected that much, maybe it's time to take a good long look at it, and try to see it through a publisher's eyes. I know, not easy to do it considering it's your baby, but you'd be surprised how much you can pick up doing it just for one chapter.

Don't give up. Stephen King was about to toss in the towel before Carrie was published, and look where he is now. ;) All the best. :)
 

Richard W. Fairbairn

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It's a bitter pill to swallow when we have to make changes that we didn't see or, worse still, don't agree with. I'm swallowing that pill now and am in the middle of rewrites of my own work. Fortunately, I can see most of the flaws. Less fortunate is the fact that my writing style itself has been criticized. Here's me thinking I had a unique, interesting voice.

A friend of mine has given me some advice that I am going to adopt. She said that I should try a short story. Once I've finished correcting my novel I'll do just that. Then, I'll have less work to do when it comes to the much loathed rewrites and reconstructions.

The only practical advice I would give you is not to give up. Never give up. If you enjoy it, it's worth doing. I've already been published millions of times, but alas they were television user manuals! Still, I'm out in print somewhere stuffed in drawers all over the world.

Just an edit to say that I would NEVER give up now. I work very hard performing local PC repairs and this year have taken a long Christmas break. I have spent most of it working on my novel and it's been just fantastic. I'd never lose that feeling again, as I have done in the past, because I threw in the towel. If people have liked your work then you have to keep going. I've still not reached that stage yet!

best wishes

Richard
 
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Richard W. Fairbairn

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Your dream should not die because of one book. You have no learned that what you critique group says doesn't matter, what beta readers say matters even less, and only agents and editor can tell you the truth because they're the only ones who know the truth. Regardless of how most writers think it should be, hat's just how it is. So you sit down and write another book. Then you sit down and write another book. Rinse and repeat until the only people who matter, agents and editors, say yes, or until it becomes obvious they never will say yes. A dream that rests on one book is in trouble from the start. When ypou've written five or six or ten novels, and the same thing happens each time, then you can start worrying.

I like this. Great advice.

Richard
 

Old Hack

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3. Publishers get the impression that you do not have the time to do the editing.

When you 'sell' your book to your publisher, what you are actually selling is the idea. They will send back an edited manuscript (perhaps with comments) for you to work on. Remember, they will not clean up your errors for you. Many times your publisher may want drafts, edits, and rewrites of entire chapters by tight deadlines. If you give them the impression that you're not willing to commit, then they will not pick up the book. Not to mention that if you're planning a sequel, you'll have to commit to that as well.

No. What you are actually selling is not the idea, it's the book. Ideas are easy: books take effort and talent to write well.

5. Your beginning chapters might be boring.

Publishers, when they are interested, may request a sample of your manuscript. Your sample may include the first few chapters. (Remember, you haven't sold it yet, so you aren't obliged to send them everything, and you shouldn't too, lest they steal your idea.) If the first few chapters go nowhere, why would they think that your book is any good?

This is very bad advice.

Except in very rare circumstances, publishers are not going to buy a novel from a newcomer without reading the entire work. For non-fiction they might well commission a book based on an outline and three chapters. But if you don't show a publisher your work they are not going to buy it. And while I've been involved in a few plagiarism cases over the years, I cannot support your statement that you shouldn't send a publisher everything you have because of the risk of them stealing your ideas. If you refuse to send a publisher the work you want them to publish, they are going to say no. And that's that.

I don't know where you get your information about publishing from, but I suggest you start looking elsewhere if this is what you've learned.
 

jiraiya-chan

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No. What you are actually selling is not the idea, it's the book. Ideas are easy: books take effort and talent to write well.



This is very bad advice.

Except in very rare circumstances, publishers are not going to buy a novel from a newcomer without reading the entire work. For non-fiction they might well commission a book based on an outline and three chapters. But if you don't show a publisher your work they are not going to buy it. And while I've been involved in a few plagiarism cases over the years, I cannot support your statement that you shouldn't send a publisher everything you have because of the risk of them stealing your ideas. If you refuse to send a publisher the work you want them to publish, they are going to say no. And that's that.

I don't know where you get your information about publishing from, but I suggest you start looking elsewhere if this is what you've learned.

Sorry...thanks for enlightening me then. I've deleted my post so that it would not mislead people. I'm just curious about your plagirarism cases. What happened?
 
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Old Hack

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Sorry...thanks for enlightening me then. I've deleted my post so that it would not mislead people.

Please don't delete posts which people have already responded to. It makes the conversation confusing and difficult for those who read it later.

I'm just curious about your plagirarism cases. What happened?

I won.

But that's not really pertinent to this discussion, so let's move on.
 

deafblindmute

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I feel somewhat in the same boat as you there, OP. My dream is far from dead (if anything, I feel more invigorated than ever), but it is discouraging to get rejection after rejection for a work.

My advice is this, also. Try to publish some short fiction. Successfully publishing something can only be a good thing, especially if you mention in a query letter that you published such-and-such in so-and-so magazine. It isn´t part of the Big Five and won´t be in a book store, but it is an important credit to put on your portfolio of work, right?
 

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I'm sure this thread is full of helpful advice, so I'm just going to leave a little personal support.

There is nothing wrong with being dedicated to a certain way of achieving your dream. If you don't want to self-publish, that's okay! I don't want to self-publish either, and if my current MS can't make it the traditional way, then it'll be this wonderful experience that made me a better writer, and nothing more.

Many writers have multiple drafts that never see the light of day. That doesn't mean that your dream is dead. The only thing that will really kill your dream is if you give up.

I've got my fingers crossed for you, and hope that you can pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and get back to your desk to write some more. Good luck!
 

Thomas Vail

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Well anyway, it remains an alternative that the OP could consider.
Honestly, no.

"Thinking it's good enough," is a pretty big warning sign in people looking at self-publishing, because a: often, they aren't. They may be good, but they need more work, which it's not going to get if the author thinks, 'good enough.' b: self-publishing, successfully, is an immense amount of work. Everything that working with a publisher already has in place for a writer is now the sole responsibility of the author. It doesn't make that big ocean any smaller and the author is now navigating it pretty much solo. The self-publishing market is glutted with writers who felt their work was 'good enough,' and thought all they had to do was get it on sale to get it sold, and it's just not ready.

And even the many really good self-published books out there, it doesn't matter how good your book is if very few people read or know about it. It combines an already herculean task with catching lightning in a bottle.

Self-publishing IS an alternative, but never one that should be brought up blithely, because it is so easy to do, and subsequently so very easy to do poorly.

Part of the Op's issue seems to be that they've gone from being a small fish in a small pond (the local writing sphere which can be directly engaged) to a tiny fish in a huge ocean. Even when agents express interest in your work, I can't imagine that yours is the ONLY manuscript taking up their attention, and in fact, they probably have a sizeable backlog. My reaction to finding out how many works one not particularly large agent could go through in a year was, 'how are there so many people writing so much out there?! It's unpossible!' That's one of the most sobering and almost discouraging part of the submission process - knowing that there are so many people out there who are also good, if not better, submitting at the same time. :)

So even if someone said they absolutely loved something, they have to see it... it still might be in queue behind quite a few other equally good or better manuscripts. A big part of getting published is that the process takes time. There's no way to get instant gratification (which is why being offered it is a big red flag) so you just have to be patient.

and you shouldn't too, lest they steal your idea.)
That's a ridiculous and unrealistic fear. 'Ideas' are worthless. I can post an idea right here, have 12 people read it, and get 12 totally different and unique executions of it. If your 'idea' is so good that they simply have to have it... well there you are, with your finished manuscript and the work already done, looking to get signed.
 

PeteMC

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So even if someone said they absolutely loved something, they have to see it... it still might be in queue behind quite a few other equally good or better manuscripts. A big part of getting published is that the process takes time. There's no way to get instant gratification (which is why being offered it is a big red flag) so you just have to be patient.

You have to be very, very patient. Publishing moves at a glacial pace, and two months is nothing. Half those agents you queried probably haven't even looked at it yet. Agents are very busy people who work very hard - for their existing clients. Agents only make money when their authors do, after all, so that's always going to be their focus.

Reading queries is effectively unpaid work and is often something they fit into their "spare" time, like evenings and weekends.

Also, as others have said, if you know the writing needs work then you need to do that work before you send any more queries out.
 

Jamills08

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I don't have any advice about publishing since I myself have never been published. However, it's only the strong that survive and keep trying, dig your heels in and just keep swimming.
 

divine-intestine

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Dreams don't die, they go dormant. One book is not the end of the world; keep writing them and each one will become better than the previous one.
 

ecerberus

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A dream is only dead if you let it die. Or you could bring it back to health and keep going!