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Thread: Copper Pen Press / La Llorona Road

  1. #1
    practical experience, FTW rhervey's Avatar
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    Copper Pen Press / La Llorona Road

    La Lorona Road is currently seeking submissions of unpublished, high-quality, novel-length (75,000 90,000 words) horror fiction. We are especially interested in the subgenres of hauntings, paranormal, psychological, historical, and a combination of mystery and horror (dark mystery/noir). Click here for submission guidelines.

  2. #2
    practical experience, FTW rhervey's Avatar
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    Call for Submissions

    La Lorona Road is currently seeking submissions of unpublished, high-quality, novel-length (75,000 90,000 words) horror fiction. We are especially interested in the subgenres of hauntings, paranormal, psychological, historical, and a combination of mystery and horror (dark mystery/noir). Click here for submission guidelines.

  3. #3
    practical experience, FTW
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    darn, i don't think my 3 finished unpublished manuscripts/novels fit that type of genre....

  4. #4
    practical experience, FTW Mrs-Q's Avatar
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    Is it usual to ask an author to pay for a professional edit?
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  5. #5
    Herder of Hamsters AW Admin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs-Q View Post
    Is it usual to ask an author to pay for a professional edit?
    No. Run like hell. That's messed up.

  6. #6
    Herder of Hamsters AW Admin's Avatar
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    Since the OP isn't following the Paying Market Rules, I'm locking this until a mod can deal.

  7. #7
    Nasty Woman AW Moderator regdog's Avatar
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    Thank you, Lisa. I'm on it. Thread will remain closed until OP responds.
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  8. #8
    Herder of Hamsters AW Admin's Avatar
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    I've moved the thread to Bewares.

  9. #9
    Write. Write. Writey Write Write. mrsmig's Avatar
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    In addition to requiring you to have your m/s professionally edited before submitting, they also want you to submit a marketing plan.

    If you're paying for the editing, and have to come up with a marketing plan, exactly what does La Llorona Road do to earn their portion of the royalties? Slap a cover on your book and throw it up on Amazon? You can do that on your own, and keep the royalties for yourself.

    I noticed an ad for Copper Pen Publishing on the La Llorona Road website. It appears to be the mystery/suspense/crime imprint for this publishing entity. There's a note on the CPP site that states they plan on rolling out "more imprints over time." One Ron Hervey is listed as the Editor in Chief (and sole staff member) for both imprints. According to Mr. Hervey's website, he has a book coming out sometime this year (with about a month and a half left in the year, he'd better step on it). According to his FB page, he is a library supervisor in Paris, TX.

    I suspect this is someone with big ideas and very little real publishing experience. I'd stay well away.
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  10. #10
    Heckuva good sport frimble3's Avatar
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    'La Llorona'? Isn't that a Mexican legend about a weeping or mourning ghost? Not an auspicious name, I'd think.

  11. #11
    blue eyed floozy shakeysix's Avatar
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    Another red flag--Lorona should be spelled with a double L, at least if it is in reference to the Mexican ghost. As my old abuela used to say--If they cain't spell, they cain't edit! --s6
    Last edited by shakeysix; 11-12-2016 at 05:37 PM.

  12. #12
    Write. Write. Writey Write Write. mrsmig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shakeysix View Post
    Another red flag--Lorona should be spelled with a double L, at least if it is in reference to the Mexican ghost. As my old abuela used to say--If they cain't spell, they cain't edit! --s6
    In fairness, it's spelled that way on the website. It's misspelled in this thread.

    ETA: And now that I've looked at the first post, it's clear that Mr. Hervey did the misspelling. If the Editor in Chief can't get the name of his own publishing company right, I'd say that's a big ol' red flag.
    Last edited by mrsmig; 11-12-2016 at 05:45 PM.
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  13. #13
    Your Genial Uncle Absolute Sage James D. Macdonald's Avatar
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    1) A book that's publishable by one is publishable by many.
    2) Start at the top and work down.

  14. #14
    Herder of Hamsters AW Admin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shakeysix View Post
    Another red flag--Lorona should be spelled with a double L, at least if it is in reference to the Mexican ghost. As my old abuela used to say--If they cain't spell, they cain't edit! --s6
    The thread title spelling is my responsibility shakeysix; the original title didn't use the name of the press at all; and I copy and pasted from rhervey's post.
    Last edited by AW Admin; 11-13-2016 at 10:33 PM.

  15. #15
    practical experience, FTW rhervey's Avatar
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    I am appalled of how I have been demonized on this website.

    Is it policy to attack members of this forum? Not only have I been a member of this forum for since 2012, but as president, and past president of a writers group, I have directed many authors to this website. That practice ends now.

    As a legitimate business owner, I do not have to defend myself on this website, but I feel as though I would be doing myself a disservice to let these unfounded charges against me stand unanswered.

    The publishing world is changing. Small press attempting to compete with the big five publishing monsters must find a niches just to stay relevant. They also have to find ways to compete financially. More and more, small publishing houses are requiring submissions to be edited. Of course, the publisher will do additional editing to adhere to house standards. I did not start this, nor am I the only one. If you survey small publishing houses, you will find it is a growing trend that I think will one day become a standard.

    I do not charge editing fees. Nor do I charge reading or publishing fees. My authors do not pay me one red cent. I also try to pay my authors above what the average small press pays. So how I became the subject the witch-hunt taking place on this website is beyond me.

    One of the posters commented that I wanted to know the marketing plan of my authors. As an author, if you do not have a marketing plan and market your own work, you will not become a successful as an author. If you rely on your publisher to do the marketing for you, you will not become a successful author. Even if one of the big publishing houses signs you, unless your name is Stephen King or Jodi Picoult, you must do the majority of your own marketing. As a small press, I have to be selective on how many authors that I sign. Of course, I do everything I can to market a book, but an author that is willing to help market his own work is more attractive to me than someone who has no plans on marketing at all. It’s a partnership. I expect my partners to help me help them become successful.

    Another poster stated that we say on our website that I will have three books out before the end of the year. That is incorrect. Our website states it is our goal to publish two to three titles per year. We launched in June of this year. In the five months that we have been in business, we will be releasing a 17-author anthology that will be published early next year. We also have open calls for a mystery and horror novels. June of 2017 will be a year for us. We hope to reach our goal of two to three books by that time.

    Another criticism here is that we are just starting out. Yes we are. We have a new business. Every business has to be new at some point. Even this website was new at some point. Yes, we are new and we hope to be helping writers realize their dreams for a long time now.

    Another poster nailed me for misspelling Llorona. Yep, you busted me. I made a mistake. I’m not perfect 100% of the time. Are you? Maybe the difference is I would rather risk my money and time to put myself out there to help authors than to criticize someone for trying to do the same.

    I have enjoyed this forum in the past but I will no longer come here, nor will I ever suggest this site again.

    Ron Hervey
    Proud Editor-in-Chief
    Copper Pen Press, LLC

    https://copperpenpress.com/

    Don't forget our horror imprint at https://lalloronaroad.com/ok
    Last edited by rhervey; 11-14-2016 at 12:35 AM.

  16. #16
    practical experience, FTW Mrs-Q's Avatar
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    If I must pay for an edit and do all of my own markering, then why wouldn't I self-publish? What would you do to earn your cut?
    Twitter handle: @emkayanders
    Latest draft of something to critique here.
    I will beta all of your weird fiction and magical realism. Gimme.

  17. #17
    Write. Write. Writey Write Write. mrsmig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhervey View Post
    I am appalled of how I have been demonized on this website.

    Is it policy to attack members of this forum? Not only have I been a member of this forum for since 2012, but as president, and past president of a writers group, I have directed many authors to this website. That practice ends now.

    As a legitimate business owner, I do not have to defend myself on this website, but I feel as though I would be doing myself a disservice to let these unfounded charges against me stand unanswered.

    The publishing world is changing. Small press attempting to compete with the big five publishing monsters must find a niches just to stay relevant. They also have to find ways to compete financially. More and more, small publishing houses are requiring submissions to be edited. Of course, the publisher will do additional editing to adhere to house standards. I did not start this, nor am I the only one. If you survey small publishing houses, you will find it is a growing trend that I think will one day become a standard.

    I do not charge editing fees. Nor do I charge reading or publishing fees. My authors do not pay me one red cent. I also try to pay my authors above what the average small press pays. So how I became the subject the witch-hunt taking place on this website is beyond me.

    One of the posters commented that I wanted to know the marketing plan of my authors. As an author, if you do not have a marketing plan and market your own work, you will not become a successful as an author. If you rely on your publisher to do the marketing for you, you will not become a successful author. Even if one of the big publishing houses signs you, unless your name is Stephen King or Jodi Picoult, you must do the majority of your own marketing. As a small press, I have to be selective on how many authors that I sign. Of course, I do everything I can to market a book, but an author that is willing to help market his own work is more attractive to me than someone who has no plans on marketing at all. It’s a partnership. I expect my partners to help me help them become successful.

    Another poster stated that we say on our website that I will have three books out before the end of the year. That is incorrect. Our website states it is our goal to publish two to three titles per year. We launched in June of this year. In the five months that we have been in business, we will be releasing a 17-author anthology that will be published early next year. We also have open calls for a mystery and horror novels. June of 2017 will be a year for us. We hope to reach our goal of two to three books by that time.

    Another criticism here is that we are just starting out. Yes we are. We have a new business. Every business has to be new at some point. Even this website was new at some point. Yes, we are new and we hope to be helping writers realize their dreams for a long time now.

    Another poster nailed me for misspelling Llorona. Yep, you busted me. I made a mistake. I’m not perfect 100% of the time. Are you? Maybe the difference is I would rather risk my money and time to put myself out there to help authors than to criticize someone for trying to do the same.

    I have enjoyed this forum in the past but I will no longer come here, nor will I ever suggest this site again.

    Ron Hervey
    Proud Editor-in-Chief
    Copper Pen Press, LLC

    https://copperpenpress.com/

    Don't forget our horror imprint at https://lalloronaroad.com/ok
    Oh, dear.

    This may be pointless, as Mr. Hervey has said he will not be returning to AW, but I think a couple of his issues should be addressed.

    1) Re: asking authors to have their manuscripts professionally edited before submission.

    Mr. Hervey, my m/s was picked up this year by a small publishing company, and received offers from several others. During the two years the m/s was on submission, not once did any publisher, large or small, demand that the m/s be professionally edited prior to submission. I think you're wrong when you say this is a trend.

    2) No one accused you of charging editing fees, nor any other fees, to your authors. But you are requiring your authors to shoulder the financial burden of editing, and clearly expect them to participate in marketing as well. Editing and marketing are part of a publisher's cost of doing business. If you don't provide that, then where's your skin in the game? If you've invested nothing in the product, what are you doing to earn your portion of the royalties?

    3) No one said your company would have three books out by the end of the year. One poster stated that their three unpublished manuscripts weren't a fit for La Llorona's genres; I remarked that your website (not La Llorona's) stated that you would have a book published by the end of the year. I think, in your outrage, you misread.

    4) No one demonized you. The error in misspelling your company's title was pointed out, and issue was taken with your business model. That's not about you. That's about your company.

    If you had answered those criticisms calmly, with facts - for example, what qualifies you to run a publishing company, or what publishing services La Llorona does offer - then you might have presented your company in a more professional light. You missed that opportunity by flying off the handle and then flouncing. This is the face you've now given your company here on a public writers' forum. Is that what you really want?
    Last edited by mrsmig; 11-14-2016 at 01:22 AM.
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  18. #18
    Such a nasty woman SuperModerator Old Hack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhervey View Post
    The publishing world is changing. Small press attempting to compete with the big five publishing monsters must find a niches just to stay relevant. They also have to find ways to compete financially. More and more, small publishing houses are requiring submissions to be edited. Of course, the publisher will do additional editing to adhere to house standards. I did not start this, nor am I the only one. If you survey small publishing houses, you will find it is a growing trend that I think will one day become a standard.
    More and more publishers might require authors to pay to have their own works edited prior to acquisition: but I don't know of any established, successful, reputable presses which do this. I've worked with and for numerous publishers, large and small, and this has never been a requirement.

    One of the posters commented that I wanted to know the marketing plan of my authors. As an author, if you do not have a marketing plan and market your own work, you will not become a successful as an author. If you rely on your publisher to do the marketing for you, you will not become a successful author. Even if one of the big publishing houses signs you, unless your name is Stephen King or Jodi Picoult, you must do the majority of your own marketing. As a small press, I have to be selective on how many authors that I sign. Of course, I do everything I can to market a book, but an author that is willing to help market his own work is more attractive to me than someone who has no plans on marketing at all. It’s a partnership. I expect my partners to help me help them become successful.
    If it's true that an author cannot be successful without a marketing plan for their book(s), can you please explain how books written by people who die prior to publication succeed? Or how books sell well in foreign and translation editions? Consider, for example, The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo, which fell into both these categories.

    Another criticism here is that we are just starting out. Yes we are. We have a new business. Every business has to be new at some point. Even this website was new at some point. Yes, we are new and we hope to be helping writers realize their dreams for a long time now.
    There's nothing wrong with being a new business. But it's common for new publishers to fail: and so it makes sense to advise writers to wait a while when new presses spring up. Let those new presses find their feet before trusting them with your work. Let other writers take the risk of publishing with them.



    Another poster nailed me for misspelling Llorona. Yep, you busted me. I made a mistake. I’m not perfect 100% of the time. Are you? Maybe the difference is I would rather risk my money and time to put myself out there to help authors than to criticize someone for trying to do the same.

    I have enjoyed this forum in the past but I will no longer come here, nor will I ever suggest this site again.

    Ron Hervey
    Proud Editor-in-Chief
    Copper Pen Press, LLC

    https://copperpenpress.com/

    Don't forget our horror imprint at https://lalloronaroad.com/ok
    Well, it's a shame if you're leaving us over this, but I wish you well and hope things go well for you.

  19. #19
    blue eyed floozy shakeysix's Avatar
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    Sorry about the misspelling thing but it did stand out and did put me off. Not your fault, rhervey, and I do apologize for being so quick to jump on a spelling error. You were a little quick to jump, too. We do have the right to question--s6

  20. #20
    Christine Tripp ctripp's Avatar
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    I did not see anyone "attack", certainly didn't see a witch hunt. You may be too sensitive for this industry Ron, Authors learn early to have thick skins and to bit their tongue during a critique. I saw the very usual breaking down a publishers site to judge if it's a worthy press to submit to or not. One to recommend or beware of. That is what happens here, always has and you must know that since you have been a member for so long.

    You state on the submission page all manuscripts must be PROFESSIONALLY edited or they will be rejected. Professional "assumes" that the writer pay for such. Publishers large or small do not expect the manuscript to be completely, nor professionally, edited and ready to go, even the smallest have an Editor. They expect it to be as typo free as can be and grammatically correct before the Editor starts working with the Author on changes. Mostly they expect it to be something great that they can build on, with the Author.
    If you see all small presses going this way soon, expecting the writer to not just do the book but pay for editing, marketing (Authors promote, they don't market) then I see small presses going out of business, because why would an Author do most of the publishers job, then share a large chunk of the profit with them?



    Last edited by ctripp; 11-14-2016 at 03:18 PM.

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