Ask For Angela

mccardey

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"Are you on a date that isn't working out? Do you feel like you're not in a safe situation? Is your Tinder or POF [Plenty of Fish] date not who they said they were on their profile? Does it all feel a bit weird?
"If you go to the bar and ask for 'Angela' the bar staff will know you need some help getting out of your situation and will call you a taxi or help you out discreetly – without too much fuss."

What a very excellent idea.
 

Vince524

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Also sucks if your name is Angela and you're waiting for someone to find you.

But otherwise it's a good idea.
 

mccardey

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I guess it's a plus that I can't see how this could be compromised, unless it's by a bartender.
The downside is that they are potentially making bar staff responsible for other people's safety, but perhaps that will be covered under workplace insurance.

The other downside is that it should be necessary at all. But on balance I like it.
 

Roxxsmom

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The downside is that they are potentially making bar staff responsible for other people's safety, but perhaps that will be covered under workplace insurance.

The other downside is that it should be necessary at all. But on balance I like it.

One of my students was being stalked/harassed by a man who worked for her college town's "tipsy taxi" service she and her roommate employed one night when they were out drinking. He escalated the harassment after they reported him to the taxi company (which did fire him, at least) and police. She and her roommate finally moved mid semester (not an easy thing to do in that college town, which tends to bind renters to 12-month leases, because he knew where they lived and restraining orders only work if the person in question respects them.

It's a sad illustration of how people sometimes abuse the trust of their position. Overall, though, I think the service mentioned in the OP's link is a positive thing, and I hope it works and helps people get out of dangerous situations.
 

ElaineA

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IDK, I wonder if they'd be responsible anymore than if you step in if someone on the sidewalk is getting harassed or having a medical problem. Hard to know. I kind of look at it in the same vein as "see something, say something." I hope it won't be twisted into an obligation (or overused for "funsies"), but rather just sinks into the bar culture as a common safeword. In that capacity, it's a terrific tool.
 

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There's always a chance it could be abused. It's also true that many people who work in pubs or restaurants would happily call a cab or the police for a customer who says they're in a bad situation. My guess is that this is an attempt to formalize things and possibly to make it more affordable for the person in question? Some people can't call a cab when being harassed (or too intoxicated to drive) because cabs are rather expensive. Or they may be scared of being followed to go wait alone at a bus stop or underground station.
 

MarkEsq

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I feel like I'm missing something, honestly. If you can make it to the bartender to ask for Angela, can't you just say, "I'm being harassed and need to get out of here discreetly"? I mean, with all this publicity it's not like asking for Angela in front of your creepy date is much of a code...
 

mccardey

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I feel like I'm missing something, honestly. If you can make it to the bartender to ask for Angela, can't you just say, "I'm being harassed and need to get out of here discreetly"? I mean, with all this publicity it's not like asking for Angela in front of your creepy date is much of a code...
You are missing something. You're missing the fact that staff are being trained in their response to the request for help. If you've ever been a young woman and asked someone in a shop or on public transport for help because you're being harrassed, you'll know that "I can't help you" or a wordless shrug, is not an uncommon response. I would imagine it's probably more than common in alcohol-serving venues.
 
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ElaineA

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I feel like I'm missing something, honestly. If you can make it to the bartender to ask for Angela, can't you just say, "I'm being harassed and need to get out of here discreetly"? I mean, with all this publicity it's not like asking for Angela in front of your creepy date is much of a code...

I think you're giving creepy dates too much credit. You assume they will know the code.

Yes, your way works, too, but sometimes a woman feels panicky and it's hard to be logical and coherent. The easier this is the better.
 

MarkEsq

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You are missing something. You're missing the fact that staff are being trained in their response to the request for help. If you've ever been a young woman and asked someone in a shop or on public transport for help because you're being harrassed, you'll know that "I can't help you" or a wordless shrug, is not an uncommon response. I would imagine it's probably more than common in alcohol-serving venues.

Well, I guess I see that in a way, but isn't this more a training issue for the staff? I mean if you want staff to be responsive to their customer's needing help, train them. I'm not seeing what the code word adds. I'm certainly not against it, let me be clear, I was just trying to understand.

- - - Updated - - -

I think you're giving creepy dates too much credit. You assume they will know the code.

Yes, your way works, too, but sometimes a woman feels panicky and it's hard to be logical and coherent. The easier this is the better.

I definitely agree with "the easier this is the better," no doubt.
 

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Makes me think of friends of Dorothy and Bill W. on cruise ships.

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DancingMaenid

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You are missing something. You're missing the fact that staff are being trained in their response to the request for help. If you've ever been a young woman and asked someone in a shop or on public transport for help because you're being harrassed, you'll know that "I can't help you" or a wordless shrug, is not an uncommon response. I would imagine it's probably more than common in alcohol-serving venues.

But if a bartender wouldn't be helpful if someone was more direct about needing help, it's doubtful they would respond better to the "Angela" code--if they even recognized it. I don't think it's a bad idea to have a code like that in place for people who don't feel safe being direct for whatever reason, but either way, the staff need to be trained in how to respond. If they don't know how to respond to a direct request for help, they're going to be even worse at responding to an indirect request.
 

mccardey

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But if a bartender wouldn't be helpful if someone was more direct about needing help, it's doubtful they would respond better to the "Angela" code--if they even recognized it. I don't think it's a bad idea to have a code like that in place for people who don't feel safe being direct for whatever reason, but either way, the staff need to be trained in how to respond. If they don't know how to respond to a direct request for help, they're going to be even worse at responding to an indirect request.
I think the point is that staff who have up till now not had a clear mandate to help - or been sure whether the boss would support their helping - are being given the support and training they need. The "code word" is an attention-getter for women (or men who need it) that the staff will support them and know how to support them with minimal fuss. (As well as being a hook to hang the story on, in a way that will get the message out to the public.)
 

cornflake

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Well, I guess I see that in a way, but isn't this more a training issue for the staff? I mean if you want staff to be responsive to their customer's needing help, train them. I'm not seeing what the code word adds. I'm certainly not against it, let me be clear, I was just trying to understand.

I definitely agree with "the easier this is the better," no doubt.

I think you're really underestimating the level of unsafe someone can feel. Even if there's been no overt, spoken threat, someone can be very threatening, and someone can feel very threatened.

I think you also may be underestimating the number of people who would feel secure enough in no matter what situation, to be bold enough to go over to a bartender and say, 'I met someone on Tinder and he's creeping me out; I don't want to leave because I'm afraid he might follow me; I don't want to go outside in case he sees my car or the direction I go. I don't know what to do.' Honestly, if someone feels comfortable enough to do that, they'd probably be comfortable enough to do something else. A bartender or waitstaff is not likely to be most people's first choice in that kind of situation.

However, if someone is sitting there thinking their Tinder date might be an unhinged potential rapist or god knows what, and doesn't know what to do, and is wary of doing anything, lest the person make an aggressive move, or follow them if they leave, then thinking a bartender will know what to do to help, and that you can say 'oh, my friend comes here sometimes, I'm looking for Angela,' right in front of the person, and feel like someone is going to look out for you so you don't end up in a ditch...

I'd worry it'd get around as an idea but very few actual establishments would sign on or hear about it, and you'd have people saying it to an innocently clueless barback and then oy.
 

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Carnival workers used to have (may still have) a "Hey Rube" call, which meant there was trouble and help needed to come right quick. Sounds like a good idea to me.

caw
 

Celia Cyanide

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But if a bartender wouldn't be helpful if someone was more direct about needing help, it's doubtful they would respond better to the "Angela" code--if they even recognized it. I don't think it's a bad idea to have a code like that in place for people who don't feel safe being direct for whatever reason, but either way, the staff need to be trained in how to respond. If they don't know how to respond to a direct request for help, they're going to be even worse at responding to an indirect request.

I think that part of having the code posted means that they do train the staff. And I do think the code is a good idea. It would certainly be more efficient than explaining the whole situation to the staff and hoping they thought it was important enough to help you.
 

Once!

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If it works, great. Anything to help keep people safe.

If it doesn't work then let's tinker with it until it does work. Edison and his light bulbs, and all that. "It might not work" is rarely a good reason for not trying something.
 

DancingMaenid

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I think that part of having the code posted means that they do train the staff. And I do think the code is a good idea. It would certainly be more efficient than explaining the whole situation to the staff and hoping they thought it was important enough to help you.

Yeah, in this case, it sounds like it's an effort that has started in a specific area where the organizers can actively reach out to the local places. So it can definitely work, and I don't have a problem with the message in this case.

My cynicism stems more from social media campaigns I've seen over the years that haven't been so geographically confined. It's unrealistic to expect hospitals and businesses everywhere to take note of a Twitter campaign that's just some person's idea, and it's potentially dangerous to encourage people to use a code that hasn't been formally introduced in their area. In this case, volunteers or professionals probably spoke to the pubs.

Also, I guess for me, there can be a fine line between providing a much-needed resource and promoting it so heavily that it feels like an expression of stigmatization. I think it's important to have mechanisms like this for when someone doesn't feel safe being direct, and it's not always shame that leads to someone not feeling like they can be direct. But I feel like there's so much stigma around admitting it when you feel uncomfortable and would like assistance or support, and I don't want to feel like I need to use coded language. I would use a resource like this if I felt like I might endanger myself by letting on what I was doing, or if I was looking for a tactful way to disengage from an awkward but not threatening date. But I don't like the idea of being expected to hide it if I feel uncomfortable or threatened, even when I'm trying to get help.