Publishing Blues: Is self publishing ever a good idea?

It is not nonsense to try and estimate the relative outcomes of self versus trade publishing. The thing is, this depends very much on your manuscript and your skill set, there is no generic outcome that can easily be predicted.

This ended up a bit longer than planned, so I hope you get some useful information out of this mess.

Simple answer is yes, it can be a viable choice. I have friends who made best seller lists in their genres with self published books. Self publishing is a great option for many authors these days. Harder answer is maybe, because while it's a great option, the market is flooded these days. Many self-published books, especially by first-time authors, languish and don't make back their editing and cover fees.

First thing to consider before self-publishing is why the literary agents aren't interested. This can be tricky if you're only getting form rejections. You'll need to get some eyes on the manuscript and try to pin down what is making them pass. The one thing you don't want to do is put the book out there if it's simply not right or marketable. This can be the hardest part, because it's next to impossible to be objective about your own work. Find readers who aren't afraid to hurt your feeling and get as much feedback as possible before you move forward.

I've done both self publishing and have published with small traditional press. For me, the pros include time frame, higher royalty payouts, making my own schedule, retaining all control over rights, and (after the Ellora's Cave debacle) not having to worry about the publisher's business standing. The time frame is adjustable to your needs. You can release in twenty-four hours or set up a pre-order for promotion time. I consider this a pro because I like getting stuff done and off my to-do list forever. For books over $2.99 (US) most distribution sites will pay out royalties in the 70% (cover price) range for digital. The higher-paying small digital presses tended to be about 40% net and most I considered were closer to 30%. With self-publishing I can schedule my book releases as I want them, release a series over time or all at once, depending on how i want to market. I can decide how to release or not release, pull the book or expand distribution, even hire an translator and do an international release if I want.

My cons list starts with how much more work is on my plate for self-publishing. I have to do all the grunt work--hire out for editing, arrange cover art, formatting, choose distribution and get the final copy uploaded appropriately. I have to manage all promotion and make review arrangements. Instead of one nice, neat paycheck from my publisher, I have small payouts trickling in from several places. My releases with a publisher had strong sales based on the publisher platform. I don't have that advantage when I self-publish. I've consistently made less money with self-publishing than with traditional publishing. There's also the question of knowing if the manuscript is marketable. I think my time with a publisher gave me better perspective on my own work, but I still won't publish without running it through a trusted reader.

My personal choice for the near future is to self-publish, because it fits my life better. I know I won't make as much income this way, but for now, I'm okay with that. In the future, I would like a mix of traditional and self-published books, but for now, I'm sticking to self-published.

I think it depends on why you're getting rejected?

(Mind, I have no direct experience here, just going by what I've read.)

It could be that your writing is strong, but

* you're submitting to the wrong agents (not their genres)
* or agents that already have a full plate of what you're writing
* or the market is saturated with similar things (sparkly vampires, zombies, etc)
* or you're writing something different enough from what's out there that they don't know how to sell it

For some of those reasons, yes, it may be a good idea to self-pub.

But if you're being rejected because you need to polish your writerly craft, then it's probably a better idea to keep polishing and keep submitting.

It also depends on what you want from this? Money? Readers, no matter how many or few? The sight of your physical book in a Barnes & Noble?

VoireyLinger said:

This ended up a bit longer than planned, so I hope you get some useful information out of this mess.
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Read this at least thirty-five times.

The process is frustrating, and long, and hard. That's traditional or proper self-pub. There are too many people who view self-pub as a way to circumvent the process and put work out there that just isn't ready. Self-pub is certainly a legitimate option, but doing it WELL is something too many writers are skipping, thus the negative reputation. Get thee to honest feedback and best of luck to you!

For me personally, self-pub is off the table at this point, simply because I don't know what I don't know. I'd rather slog through this torturous process of traditional publishing, and maybe branch into a hybrid career after I know more. (One of my mentors is doing just that - she has enjoyed success with traditional publishing, so she's moving into a hybrid position with her next series... but she knows what she's doing.)

Agree with all of the above.

It really does depend on what you want from your own writing career. There are advantages and disadvantages to each platform, and which one (or which combination) makes sense has more to do with your personal goals than anything else.

But the really important thing is that you have to have a good, well-written, polished book no matter how you decide to get it out into the world. As Introversion pointed out, you can have such a book and still have trouble finding an agent; but it's worth going to the trouble of figuring out if that's what's going on, or if you have more polishing to do. Don't self-publish because it's "easier" - career-wise, it's not easier, it's just different.

Is it your query/synopsis alone that's getting rejected? Or are you getting page requests that aren't getting you anywhere? These two problems have very different solutions.

No matter what, though... on the Rs. They are awful, no way around it. But you get to choose how they affect you. Yes, they are painful and demoralizing; but if you don't want them to stop you writing, don't let them stop you writing.

There are many, many successful indie published authors out there. Hugh Howey, Marie Force, to name two. They both have a ton of good stuff to share about it, check 'em out.

The publishing world is changing, shifting--it's nothing like it was even five years ago. With traditional publishing, the 'open spots' are few for those not already well known in the writing world. These days, most manuscripts sent to trad publishers don't see the light of day unless a known name gets them in. In self/indie publishing, there's so much more room.

My first book was published by a small press that closed the doors just before my second book was to be released. That Husband o' Mine and I had already been talking about indie publishing, so we took the jump sooner than planned. I got my rights back for the first book and we published it and my second book ourselves. I'm happily at work on book four, while book three off with my editor.

There are a lot of details I would rather leave to someone else while I keep on writing, but I do love that we're in complete control of my books. I hope one day to be able to have an assistant for all the bother work. Building a career writing books is a long, slow burn to a nice fire--a quick match flash won't do it.

Hope that helps a bit--keep writing!

Yes. Though it's hard work of a different sort, never doubt that. It's worked out for me, and it's worked out for a lot of other people, but there's no guarantee of success for everyone or even anyone.

Dana_B said:

With traditional publishing, the 'open spots' are few for those not already well known in the writing world. These days, most manuscripts sent to trad publishers don't see the light of day unless a known name gets them in.

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Not going to quibble with anything else you said, but this is not true. Trade publishers love new names, and are excited to be credited with "discovering" a new voice. (Cite: Myself and every single trade published author I've ever spoken with.)

KittenEV said:

So I was wondering how viable is self-publishing in reality?

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It can be very viable for the right author, book, and market.

Can your book really be successful if you self-publish?

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Yes, but only if you start with a professional product (well-edited, formatted, quality cover, etc.). You are the author and the publisher; expect to put in the amount of time needed for both aspects of the business.

What would I be losing out on from traditional publishing if I try to self-publish?

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Editing, covers, formatting/typesetting, and most importantly marketing. A good publisher will do all this for you at no cost. If you self-publish, you're on your own.

What are so pros and cons? How would you compare traditional publishing and self-publishing?

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Take a look at the self-publishing subforum; there are plenty of discussions.

For myself, having self-published for 3 years with 2 pen names, I wouldn't have it any other way. However, I do think that self-publishing because you're getting lots of rejections is probably not the best reason to self-publish. It requires a tremendous amount of time commitment, dedication, and a very thick skin.

Good luck, whatever you choose.

lizmonster said:

Not going to quibble with anything else you said, but this is not true. Trade publishers love new names, and are excited to be credited with "discovering" a new voice. (Cite: Myself and every single trade published author I've ever spoken with.)

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Likely my 'trad publishing' brush was too broad there, I meant to clarify the Big Five and also to say 'from what I've read', not that it's something set in stone.

Dana_B said:

Likely my 'trad publishing' brush was too broad there, I meant to clarify the Big Five and also to say 'from what I've read', not that it's something set in stone.

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Understood. Although I'm with a Big 5 imprint, and so are most of the authors I've spoken with.

Not intending to pick on you, Dana_B, but just to do my part to bury this persistent myth: most of the trade publishing professionals I've worked with, from agents to marketing people to the high-level editors and sales people, love books. Love them. Yes, it's a business, and they are tasked with finding work they believe will sell for their imprint; but they're not running around checking resumes before they'll pick up a manuscript. They're just looking for something they love to read, that they think enough other people will also love to read.

I too have heard rumors of "don't talk to me unless you have an MFA and these six lit journal credits" people, but I've never actually met one myself. I'm sure they exist, but they are not the norm, even for the Big 5*.

There are many good reasons to choose self-publishing, but thinking you have no chance with a trade publisher because you don't have the right background is not one of them.

*I should note I'm a genre writer, so it's possible there are genres where credentials make a bigger difference; although most of the folks I talk to deal with many genres, so I still disbelieve it's common. (Non-fic is a whole different thing, of course, but even there I think it has more to do with your professional credentials than your publishing ones.)

lizmonster said:

most of the trade publishing professionals I've worked with, from agents to marketing people to the high-level editors and sales people, love books. Love them. Yes, it's a business, and they are tasked with finding work they believe will sell for their imprint; but they're not running around checking resumes before they'll pick up a manuscript. They're just looking for something they love to read, that they think enough other people will also love to read.

I too have heard rumors of "don't talk to me unless you have an MFA and these six lit journal credits" people, but I've never actually met one myself. I'm sure they exist, but they are not the norm, even for the Big 5*.

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This has absolutely been my experience too, in all sorts of publishing arenas, from genre fiction, to non-fiction, to scholarly and academic presses.

KittenEV said:

So I guess I have to get a few people to read it first before making any decisions to see if it's even a good book. Problem is no one in my circle of friends wants to and not even you guys on here wanted to give it a go so I have no way of doing that :/

Any thoughts of what I could do?

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Query Letter Hell and Share Your Work (IIRC you're writing fantasy, so I linked to SFF SYW, but if I'm misremembering there are subforums there for every genre you can think of). Post your query letter in QLH. Post your first chapter (or first 1K-2K words, more or less) in SYW. If you're feeling fragile, ask people for honest but kindly-worded critiques.

I know how hard it is to show your work to strangers. I know it feels strangely easier to throw it at agents or even publishers first! But the people here are as receptive and honest a group of strangers as you'll find. Any critiques you get will be from people who want you to succeed. We have a good bunch here.

This is just my advice - take it as you will, okay?

Relax.

Have a cuppa. Watch a good movie, read that book you've been eyeing.

Start plotting out another book. Don't have to write it, just run the ideas around in your mind. Put this one down and let it steep, like a good wine.

Relax. Come back in a few days or a few weeks, consider doing something for NaNo. Take up a craft, do that computer game.

Work on another book. Come on back to this one when you're ready and can look at it critically again.

Send it out again. Write the next book.

Because if/when you DO get an agent OR if you self-publish you WILL have to write another book. And another. Don't get stalled on this one or too fixated.

Self-publishing is a hell of a job and not for the faint of heart. You have to juggle a LOT of balls and it's hard as hell.

But keep on writing. Keep. On. Writing.

Be well.

veinglory said:

It is not nonsense to try and estimate the relative outcomes of self versus trade publishing. The thing is, this depends very much on your manuscript and your skill set, there is no generic outcome that can easily be predicted.

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+1

I didn't self-publish until I wrote my third book. But I had the advantage of an in-house design professional (a perk of being married to a creative) and an editor I'd already worked with and trusted. And I self-published it because it was my story (my memoir), and I wanted to have control over it.

It's a crazy amount of work, though. Plus, it takes an initial investment to have a finished product you can be proud of, and and this is so important for sales. I've seen too many books that I won't even touch because they scream "I'm self-published and my author threw me up here online." But you really have to weigh your initial investment costs versus how many books you need to sell to make that money back. (If you're interested in realizing a profit.)

If you build your audience, you can do it. It's a tough road though, I'm not going to lie. A friend of mine who was published through the same small press (which has since folded and we had our rights reverted) told me yesterday that she celebrates each sale as a self-publisher. I do too when they're spread out and sales have been slow (which they have been the past couple of months).

Done well, self-publishing beats a lot of small presses out there, which is another reason I've self-published. But... if I got a deal from a Big 5 house, I probably wouldn't turn it down.

KittenEV said:

I have T.T The query letter and first chapter was revised. It's the rest of it people don't want to read.

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Are you getting partial requests from your query? If not, time to send it back to QLH. Include the exact text you've been sending, and tell people the results you've been getting.

I found your SYW thread, and you're getting some good feedback there. I will note, though, that you say you've posted a scene from within the novel (unless I'm misreading). This isn't going to be the first thing an agent sees when you send them pages. I'd suggest you get a critique for that bit as well.

KittenEV said:

I have T.T The query letter and first chapter was revised. It's the rest of it people don't want to read.

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Maybe you just need to be put in touch with the right people? Sometimes it's hard to find the right readers--I struggled initially finding people to read my first manuscript because it was 178,000 words (way too long for most) and an erotic romance, which not everyone wants to read. So, don't take it personally. Send me a PM. We can chat if you like, and if you feel we're a good fit, I'd be happy to read for you.

For me, the biggest pro v. con of this choice isn't about "success". It's about respect. That's what I'd like to garner most of all, the respect from the standard publishing world that says my stuff is at least worthy of being accepted and tossed into the marketpile. "Success" I hope would follow, but if it doesn't (and there are a lot of traditionally published books that don't "succeed" in the marketpile), I'll at least know that I got the respect.

Alas . . . .

caw

Dana_B said:

With traditional publishing, the 'open spots' are few for those not already well known in the writing world. These days, most manuscripts sent to trad publishers don't see the light of day unless a known name gets them in.

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Dana_B said:

Likely my 'trad publishing' brush was too broad there, I meant to clarify the Big Five and also to say 'from what I've read', not that it's something set in stone.

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It's wrong that only the Big Five ignore debut writers. All the publishers, agents and editors I know love new writers, love books, love discovering brilliant, wonderful reads.

lizmonster said:

Understood. Although I'm with a Big 5 imprint, and so are most of the authors I've spoken with.

Not intending to pick on you, Dana_B, but just to do my part to bury this persistent myth: most of the trade publishing professionals I've worked with, from agents to marketing people to the high-level editors and sales people, love books. Love them. Yes, it's a business, and they are tasked with finding work they believe will sell for their imprint; but they're not running around checking resumes before they'll pick up a manuscript. They're just looking for something they love to read, that they think enough other people will also love to read.

I too have heard rumors of "don't talk to me unless you have an MFA and these six lit journal credits" people, but I've never actually met one myself. I'm sure they exist, but they are not the norm, even for the Big 5*.

There are many good reasons to choose self-publishing, but thinking you have no chance with a trade publisher because you don't have the right background is not one of them.

*I should note I'm a genre writer, so it's possible there are genres where credentials make a bigger difference; although most of the folks I talk to deal with many genres, so I still disbelieve it's common. (Non-fic is a whole different thing, of course, but even there I think it has more to do with your professional credentials than your publishing ones.)

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Liz, you're exactly right.