How long to stall a romance, looking for opinions.

MaeZe · Oct 17, 2016

I'm reading Karen Bao's YA book Dove Exiled. It's the second in a series (duology?). Writing's good, story's interesting. But here I am halfway through the second book and the two main characters have yet to admit to each other that they are in love. He thinks she has a lover and she thinks he sees her as a kid sister.

For me, it's going on too long, it's time for them to become more than partners in saving the world. But it's such a common trope for the love to be thwarted, it must be something readers enjoy.

In my book, the main character starts out already in love. Partway through the book their love is challenged. He feels guilty he wasn't there for her and suspicious she's now interested in a different life. She fears he's adopted the life they both used to rebel against.

I'm just wondering how far to take that. Given conflict drives a story, should I take it through half the book, or resolve it sooner. Keep in mind this is not the main conflict of the story. The main conflict is bigger, involving cultural and class divides.

I'm asking because I am an opinion of one and I'd like a broader consensus as to what other readers enjoy reading. Do you get tired of a continually thwarted love, or enjoy the struggle characters go through to get to that ultimate happiness?

Sage · Oct 18, 2016

There was a summer where I was reading everything on Kindle, and I noticed that every single YA book I read had the big romantic confession or realization or spot where the MC & LI finally kissed, or whatever the big romantic moment was, hit at about 50% (iirc, between 48-55%). I would imagine that that's because there was something to the market that made that seem appealing to authors and editors or some book that subconsciously set the pattern up in authors' minds for a while. I don't know if it's still true because I don't read as much on my Kindle (or at all this year

)

There is something to be said about stringing the romantic tension along, particularly in a series. It's a model we often see in television shows, where (usually M/F) partners have just enough romantic tension to build on over several seasons, but not so much that we're rolling our eyes from episode one that they don't get together sooner. In a series where an author can set up the potential for romance early on, then have it build into something real by the time the readers are really rooting for it, it can work well. If there are external forces getting in the way of them getting together, that also can work well. But, IMO, too long stringing the reader along with misunderstandings that a good talk could fix can get tedious.

Cindyt · Oct 18, 2016

I've read many a book where the romance started near the end of the book and marriage on the last page or two. In one there was absolutely no romance. They just got married at the end. It was like "Sally, these oranges such are heavy with juice--say, before I drop you off at your mother's, let's wing by the courthouse..." Seriously.

EvieDriver · Oct 20, 2016

This is a tricky business for sure. I stopped watching Bones (TV Show) because I couldn't take anymore of "building" the romantic tension. It can only build so long in the SAME way before it gets exhausting. This has been my biggest pet peeve for a while now in the books I read. I love romances, admittedly. They're enough predictability to ensure a none-too-stressful read and an occasional good plot. I think it should happen naturally. I'm writing three novels featured around 6 friends. 2 get together in the first book, no one else gets together in the second (the main couple from the first go through a dry spell, though), and in the third, the other two couples finally come together. I'm not trying to be evil. It's just the organic direction of how the story progresses.

Hope this helps.

Sage · Oct 20, 2016

There is something to be said about the satisfaction of the MC and LI getting together just at the end of a book/series too, so it's a real balancing act. When I mention the 50% romantic moment in YA books, it's not always the moment when the MC & LI get together (and sometimes they don't at all in the (usually first) book). But it's some defining romantic moment where the reader is satisfied that something *could* happen. As aware of this as I was in 2013, I haven't really written a book since that used this formula until my most recent one, where the MC and LI kiss...except that right after, several wedges are put up between them, so while it's a defining romantic moment, it doesn't ultimately satisfy the reader hoping they'll get together. They'll have to wait to the end of the novel to see if that happens.

To continue talking about series that string us along, so many of those series like Bones (although I think Bones may be the exception based on what little I've seen after they got together) have problems maintaining the type of chemistry they had when the characters were not together once they finally admit their feelings. So show runners have to decide just how long they can string along that unspoken chemistry, knowing that once they allow the characters to finally get together, it rarely lives up to viewers' expectations.

K.S. Crooks · Oct 23, 2016

Stalling a romance needs physical and/or mental obstacles. If the characters have to be apart or are in danger for some time then this can serve to quell romantic notions. The feelings will still be there and will peak out at times, however they never let them completely surface do to the circumstances. A mental obstacle could be a person's feelings for another, who may or may not be present. There could also be fear of rejection and other internal conflicts.
If you want them to be together at the end of the story, there needs to be progress made throughout. Also consider that even if the characters express their shared feeling for each other there can still be things that hinder further progress. They can even have setbacks if the discover something they don't like about the other or are tricked in some way by a third party. No romance is ever completely up hill. There are always plateaus and even downward slides.

Mrs-Q · Oct 23, 2016

The easiest way to deal with it is to make the inner personality flaw that is holding your character back from achieving the main goal also the thing that's keeping them from getting with the love interest. For instance, the main character is impulsive, so they run headlong into trying to defeat the dragon. Love interest is upset their recklessness put MC and everyone else in danger, ain't in the mood for kissing. That way, when the MC gets overthemselves, makes a careful plan, and defeats the dragon, Love Interests's objection to smooching is resolved at the same time as the main conflict.

edutton · Oct 23, 2016

You can put the resolution wherever it best serves the story! But please if you do string it out, make it for good story/character reasons (+1 to Mrs-Q and K. S. Crooks). Pet peeve alert: Way too often I see stories where the inevitable is delayed for whole chapters because of a stupid misunderstanding that most real people would have sorted out in about five minutes of actually talking to each other - to the point where I almost cheer when something like that happens and the characters DO talk it out and move on.

MaeZe · Oct 23, 2016

This makes so much sense. Thanks all for helping me clarify what it is that annoys me, and how to use the conflict in a constructive way.

Sage · Oct 23, 2016

edutton said:
Pet peeve alert: Way too often I see stories where the inevitable is delayed for whole chapters because of a stupid misunderstanding that most real people would have sorted out in about five minutes of actually talking to each other - to the point where I almost cheer when something like that happens and the characters DO talk it out and move on.

I was thinking about this today and the WIP I'm editing, wondering if the MC has it too easy when he just accepts and trusts the LI (although external forces keep them apart). And then I thought about how annoyed I get when misunderstandings get in the way, and I decided I had to come here an say this exact thing that edutton said.

MaeZe · Oct 23, 2016

Down with stupid misunderstandings as a plot device! I'm in agreement. :Thumbs:

edutton · Oct 23, 2016

Sage said:
I was thinking about this today and the WIP I'm editing, wondering if the MC has it too easy when he just accepts and trusts the LI (although external forces keep them apart). And then I thought about how annoyed I get when misunderstandings get in the way, and I decided I had to come here an say this exact thing that edutton said.

LOL
My MC actually says it out loud at one point: "This isn’t one of your romance novels, and I’m not going to let some stupid misunderstanding hang over our heads for weeks."

StoryG27 · Oct 23, 2016

I agree with edutton and Sage on the misunderstanding creating a long drawn out delay of the romance. So annoying. There are many ways to thwart a romance when you control the world the romantics live in, so if the need to string it along is there, as long as I, the reader, think it is valid, I'm pretty patient. It's also quite fun to have them get together and tear them apart. I think a lot of writers feel like they loose built in tension when LIs get together, but there can be plenty of it once a relationship has started. It sounds like your romance has hit a rough patch (which again is great built in tension), figuring out how long to draw that out can be tricky. As long as the reasons for it feel real and pretty much unavoidable to me as a reader, I don't care if it is drawn out for an entire book (all I need is the hope of resolution and empathy for both LIs).

sockycat · Nov 3, 2016

I don't know what it is, but books that push the romance aside so the plot can dance tend to be my favorite. Drawing out romance is annoying, but letting is develop slowly and more naturally, kind of the same way that us mere mortals fall in love, tends to appeal to me more. A great example of this is John Flanagan's Rangers Apprentice series. We know from book 1 that Will is into Alyss, but there's so much stuff going on that they kind of both fall into the, "well, we have a kingdom to save, we'll worry about this later" mindset that was very real and very appealing to me. It kind of let me as a reader fall in love with their love. And it wasn't until book four or five I want to say that Will realizes how in love he is because she gets kidnapped by some whackadoodle wizard guy.

edutton · Nov 3, 2016

sockycat said:
I don't know what it is, but books that push the romance aside so the plot can dance tend to be my favorite. Drawing out romance is annoying, but letting is develop slowly and more naturally, kind of the same way that us mere mortals fall in love, tends to appeal to me more.

Oh, absolutely. I've put down any number of books for "insta-love" violations -- when the characters are having a conversation in chapter 2 that I MIGHT believe in chapter 10, it kills it for me.

sockycat · Nov 3, 2016

edutton said:
Oh, absolutely. I've put down any number of books for "insta-love" violations -- when the characters are having a conversation in chapter 2 that I MIGHT believe in chapter 10, it kills it for me.

Exactly. If love feels rushed or inorganic it makes me not care. My other pet peeve is when you're like halfway in and the two characters haven't really shown any sign of being in love/having romantic feelings for each other, and the one of them is all, I LOVE YOUUU. I hate being blindsided. It's just as bad as it popping up in the first chapter. When it's just tossed in it feels cheap and pointless.

romance2die4 · Nov 3, 2016

Some of the most memorable romances that I have read start at a point where the MC and LI already have some history together. As far as drawing out the get together moment, I think the key is to have a strong MC that the readers are interested in. Then it really doesn't matter because they are invested in finding out what happens to the character that they love.

edutton · Nov 3, 2016

romance2die4 said:
Some of the most memorable romances that I have read start at a point where the MC and LI already have some history together. That's my MS, so yay... As far as drawing out the get together moment, I think the key is to have a strong MC that the readers are interested in. Then it really doesn't matter because they are invested in finding out what happens to the character that they love.

Yes, to a degree -- but even with really well written and engaging characters, if the author spins the payoff out and out (and out) for some random reason that doesn't fit with the people or the story, they'll more than likely lose me. The plotting has to be there as well.

Mary Love · Nov 3, 2016

MaeZe said:
Down with stupid misunderstandings as a plot device! I'm in agreement.

I'll board that ship. Also down with insta love! Like every other plot development: balance, balance! :e2seesaw:

Sage · Nov 3, 2016

I don't mind instalove so much because sometimes teens feel like their instacrush is the most important thing in the world and couldn't be anything but love. Sometimes not. I like a variety.

Zoombie · Nov 3, 2016

Sage said:
I don't mind instalove so much because sometimes teens feel like their instacrush is the most important thing in the world and couldn't be anything but love. Sometimes not. I like a variety.

I had instalove. Then she was like, "I'm not into you dude."

Then instasads.

Then instalove again!

Then an irritated character pointing out that's not love, that's lust, you don't know anything about them.

It was fun.

But yes, I'm going to echo Mary Love. Balance balance balance. Something I've also noticed is...you can get leeway from your readers by understanding what tricks and gimmicks you're pulling. If you have two mature characters talk their feelings out, a reader will be more likely to forgive you if you have two other characters NOT talk things out - doubly so if those characters are belivably immature. Reader comitment to your book is a resource, and it can be burned up and renewed in many different ways. But that might just be how I read books projected onto other people...

edutton · Nov 3, 2016

Zoombie said:
Something I've also noticed is...you can get leeway from your readers by understanding what tricks and gimmicks you're pulling. Da magic key! If you have two mature characters talk their feelings out, a reader will be more likely to forgive you if you have two other characters NOT talk things out - doubly so if those characters are believably immature.

Fair. Most of the time, though, what I see and what really sets my teeth on edge is the MCs not talking about THE ONE THING that most competent human beings would be dying to get off their chests. And/or one small, stupid misunderstanding that shadows their happiness for, like, half the book. (cf. the classic "overheard one-half of a phone conversation", a la White Christmas).

And of course, as with everything else in writing, insta-love Can Work If You Do It Well Enough.(TM) But for me it has to be pretty damn good to suspend my disbelief that far. (Particularly outside of YA, Sage is right that it's easier to work that with teens.)

Zoombie · Nov 3, 2016

Though, personally, I am a big fan of the third party save.

Character A: Character B did something bad!
Character C: Uh...did you talk to B?
Character A: No, I just stormed out-
Character C: OKAY! Lets all SIT DOWN and TALK ABOUT THIS.

And then they kiss.

edutton · Nov 3, 2016

Zoombie said:
Though, personally, I am a big fan of the third party save.

Character A: Character B did something bad!
Character C: Uh...did you talk to B?
Character A: No, I just stormed out-
Character C: OKAY! Lets all SIT DOWN and TALK ABOUT THIS.

And then they kiss.

I have this in mine! Initially I had a big, beautiful kick-ass fight scene where my FMC got to rescue her LI, until I realized that entire sequence of events only came about because the girls were being more stupid than they would actually ever be.

The story is stronger now, but I still miss my fight.

Paprika · Nov 23, 2016

But here I am halfway through the second book and the two main characters have yet to admit to each other that they are in love. He thinks she has a lover and she thinks he sees her as a kid sister.

How much do they talk/think about this love? If it's a constant barrage of "oh, how much I love them, why don't they love me the way I love them" then yeah, that's annoying and should be probably be over and done with fairly soon. If it's not that big of a deal, then I don't really care. My crushes didn't take up much of my thought space either. I had stuff going on that had nothing to with those. These characters are saving the world, aren't they?

Misunderstandings only work in comedies, in my opinion. Otherwise they're just frustrating.

How long to stall a romance, looking for opinions.

MaeZe

Sage

Supreme Guessinator

Cindyt

Gettin wiggy wit it

EvieDriver

Sage

Supreme Guessinator

K.S. Crooks

Mrs-Q

edutton

Ni. Peng. Neee-Wom.

MaeZe

Sage

Supreme Guessinator

MaeZe

edutton

Ni. Peng. Neee-Wom.

StoryG27

Miss Behave

sockycat

edutton

Ni. Peng. Neee-Wom.

sockycat

romance2die4

edutton

Ni. Peng. Neee-Wom.

Mary Love

Sage

Supreme Guessinator

Zoombie

Dragon of the Multiverse

edutton

Ni. Peng. Neee-Wom.

Zoombie

Dragon of the Multiverse

edutton

Ni. Peng. Neee-Wom.

Paprika