How much needs to be explained to the reader.

GeoJon · Oct 17, 2016

Hi all

Newbie question I'm afraid.

I've just started to write my first novel, having previously only ever written two short stories. I'm getting tons of brilliant advice from the SF&F 'share your work' section and am modifying the way I write as I go along.

One thing I've noticed though - the crits I've received have been hugely valuable to me and I really am grateful for everyone's time, however, a recurring LBL criticism is that I often confuse people with either plot elements or something a character has said which doesn't make immediate sense. Admittedly, I havent planned out the plot, and I'm learning about the characters as I write - but I did try to plan out a different novel earlier in the year and spent a lot of time working out who the characters were and what was going to happen as the plot unfolded etc etc. The end result was that the story felt stymied and flat, and I abandoned it. It seems I can only write if I don't feel constrained by a plan (which probably means I'll never be a good writer, but I'm thoroughly enjoying the process).

Anyway - I'm extremely confused about the amount of explanation I need to put into the narrative. I'd have thought that the reader would occasionally want to try to understand why something odd or enigmatic had just happened, rather than understanding everything as they read the book.

If I could give you a real life example (easier to explain than anything from my own writing). There's a series on (UK) TV at the moment about Queen Victoria in the early years of her reign. Victoria is besotted with the British prime-minister Lord Melbourne - a much older man. In once scene, Victoria is attending some sort of royal function and Lord M gives her a flower. Her future husband (Prince Albert) is also there and asks her to dance (they've only just met). So, Victoria slips the flower into the front of her dress and dances with the prince. At that point, my girlfriend (who was watching the show with me) said, 'oh, she's put Lord M's flower between them' - like a barrier between her and the prince.

Now, I never even spotted that. I'm sure the writer intended the symbolism, and once my girlfriend had pointed it out, I thought it was a great piece of writing. But - if I had read that part in a book, I wouldn't have understood the significance. Judging by the crits I've received, dialogue, actions or plot points of a similarly vague nature are often picked up upon and the resulting crit is 'I'm confused.' I (as a reader) would have been confused by the Victoria/flower thing, but it was still great writing and the story would have been diminished if it was taken out.

The SYW crits I've had have already massively improved the way I write (all my bad habits I now know I have are in my signature) - but this 'I'm confused' type of crit is galling as I can't work out how to fix it. I want the reader to wonder about stuff. But if I explain things, I don't enjoy reading my own work.

Sorry - very vague question, I know. But how do you decide how much to explain, whether it be through dialogue, actions or narrative? Do you make sure that important plot points are very clear, but minor points can be played around with and left as subtle clues for the reader? Any advice would be hugely appreciated.

Cheers

Jon

Bufty · Oct 17, 2016

Tricky one.

Simple answer is you can't please all of the people all of the time and if someone doesn't understand something it doesn't mean everyone doesn't understand it. The symbolism of the flower seems to me to be something that maybe some folk choose to read into the action. What else was she supposed to do with the flower? If she had stuck it in a nearby vase while she danced I wonder how that would have been interpreted. She could have kept in in her fingers. One can overthink these things and many folk attribute meanings to actions/events that the writer never intended.

All you can do is tell the story to the best of your ability, foreshadowing where you feel it necessary.

Rarely should things need to be 'explained' as such.

If the reason for an action has already been deliberately foreshadowed, the reader will get it even though the odd skimmer may not.

I think you have to answer your own final question because you know your story better than others and you know what is important and what is not and therefore what you wish the reader to be made aware of as and when necessary so he can best enjoy the unfolding story.

Reader confusion is to avoided and usually arises when the 'flow' is missing, or when actions or events occur out of the blue with no apparent rhyme or reason, because readers will remember important points.

Good luck

Omitted to mention, many, many, folk write without any pre-planning. Works, because what happens on page two is dependent upon what happened on page one, and what happens on page three depends upon what happened on pages one and two, and what happens on page four......

Mrs-Q · Oct 17, 2016

It's a difficult question.

What you are trying to do is create a sense of movement through the story which makes people want to keep reading. One thing (but not the only thing) that gives a story momentum is conflict. But conflict also comes from your character and their motivations.

Anyway, first choose a point of view. What the narrator notes will be very very different if you're in third person godlike versus first person present or anywhere in between. You might find out part of the way through you need a different POV to create the effect you want.

Then, depending on the point of view, the narrator directs their attention according to who they are and what the conflict is in the scene. You can also use details to evoke mood, but the trend is away from pages and pages of description.

My advice is nail down whose point of view this is, what the conflict is, and what the scene is doing in the story. You may not know all of this until you have a first or second draft, but you'll know some of it. You want to make sure you keep track of cause and effect (so no important objects appearing out of nowhere). Ask yourself, "what does my reader need to know in order for them to understand what is happening in this scene?"

The flower is very nice texture. Don't explain texture. Sometimes you will get feedback to cut or explain stuff like that. It's a taste thing. If everyone hates it, then yeah, cut. But if it's invisible to most people and appreciated by 25%, that's pretty good.

It's hard to break down because so much of it comes out in editing. I draft from the ground up, but I have to edit from overall story structure down to scenes and down to the beats within scenes.

My advice is, finish your draft and then let it sit for a while. Start charting your story structure and figuring out what the themes and main plotline of the book are about. That will help you figure out what is important and what isn't. One you have that, you can edit for how the language feels. But getting that first draft done comes first.

Hope that helps.

Old Hack · Oct 17, 2016

I think your best course of action here would be to go and read a dozen books or more in your chosen genre, by writers you like and writers you don't like. How do they do things? How do you like what they do? How do you think they could have done it better?

Reading, reading, reading. That's how you'll learn to write well.

Marian Perera · Oct 17, 2016

Maybe the answer isn't to stop readers saying "I'm confused."

Maybe it's to make them say, "I'm confused, but I'll keep reading anyway."

I ran into this issue with China Mieville's novels Perdido Street Station and The Scar. Both have prologues, IIRC, told from either the first-person POV of some nameless character or from an omniscient perspective, and I didn't really know what was going on, or what was the significance of the events in the prologue. I hung in there anyway because the prologues gave me glimpses into a dark, repulsive, compelling world, and that is hugely fascinating. Same goes for style, or characterization.

Layla Nahar · Oct 17, 2016

Old Hack said:
I think your best course of action here would be to go and read a dozen books or more in your chosen genre, by writers you like and writers you don't like. How do they do things? How do you like what they do? How do you think they could have done it better?

Reading, reading, reading. That's how you'll learn to write well.

Old Hack beat me to it.

(+1-ing Marian Pererra's idea, too)

jlmott · Oct 17, 2016

In my own critiques of others, I tend to reserve the statement "I am confused" when I feel completely ungrounded in the scene the author has written. All stories start with ambiguity and questions, and there's nothing wrong with that, and often these questions take the length of the entire novel to answer (and sometimes not even then). All of that is fine and good, but even so the reader needs to be grounded in reality of the novel as the writer presents it. When new characters are introduced without explanation and whose purpose in the narrative is a mystery, when a character acts in a way that doesn't fit with what we know of them so far and no explanation is given, when a scene abruptly starts or ends or shifts without rhyme or reason, then I might say I'm confused what your intentions are as the writer. Now there might be a reason to mix things up and throw the reader for a loop for a bit, but it's a tricky business. Done right, it can be amazing, but done wrong (which is where I usually end up) you've only created confusion. It's generally best to aim for clarity over complexity.

BethS · Oct 17, 2016

Bufty, nice to see you!

I agree with all that you said, especially this:

Bufty said:
Reader confusion is to avoided and usually arises when the 'flow' is missing, or when actions or events occur out of the blue with no apparent rhyme or reason, because readers will remember important points.

JJ Litke · Oct 17, 2016

How much to explain is a tricky balancing act, especially in SFF, where you may need to gradually incorporate strange world details in addition to the usual characters and setting details.

SFF readers get pretty accustomed to figuring out new terms as they go along, but there's still a limit to how much you can throw at readers all at once and expect them to keep it all straight.

In your example about the flower, I think if it were written in a book, where the action was simply described, it wouldn't be the slightest bit confusing. Maybe readers may not even notice it as being particularly significant, at least not consciously. On the other hand, if it were described along with something like, "She tucked the flower into her dress, sending a clear message to her partner," that's likely to cause some confusion about what the message is supposed to be. Now it may be possible to add enough text before or after to clarify the message, but that could get distracting or confusing, too, if too much emphasis is being placed on what should be a small action.

Orson Scott Card wrote an essay that's relevant to this. Pieces of it are in this article, along with some good examples. Maybe that'll help a little.

cornflake · Oct 17, 2016

The flower reads obvious to me -- and if it were in print, there'd be a bunch of ways to convey it. She took the flower, hesitated, and placed it boldly into her dress, facing outwards. She took the flower, moved a hand toward her ear, then looked toward Albert and placed it into her dress. She accepted the flower and placed it in front of her heart. She accepted the flower and deliberately inserted it into her cleavage, starting a wave of whispers. Etc.

You don't need to spell stuff out A to B to C to make something clear.

Cobalt Jade · Oct 17, 2016

Reader confusion is to avoided and usually arises when the 'flow' is missing, or when actions or events occur out of the blue with no apparent rhyme or reason, because readers will remember important points.

Exactly!

I feel bad, because I've been one of the "confused" culprits

Honestly, though, as a reader I do like things crystal-clear in the first few chapters of a book. Later on, once the setting, plot, and characters are established, I don't mind ambiguity or confusion, because by then I have already invested in the story. Let's look at some examples from your chapter from the viewpoint of a reader who is a fantasy fan. They know they are reading a fantasy book with magic in it, so Martin using a power to influence animals is expected and accepted. On the other hand him being a youth of 35 is different and strange. If it was a science fiction book, it might not be, because then he might be of a different species or on a planet with shorter years, but it isn't. So the reader is confused, in this case by conventions of the genre. One person might shrug and keep reading because they want to know what happens. Another might say WTF and stop. The latter is more likely because we're just a few paragraphs in and everything so far is just setup.

If you work in a reference in one of the preceding paragraphs about Martin being a long-lived Iventi, like "He couldn't die now, as a member of the long-lived Iventi tribe he had 200 more years of life to look forward to," the reader might understand. Of course, since he's hanging there trying to escape and in desperate straits, would he really think of this? Methinks a detail like this could wait for later when circumstances in the story dictate you mention it.

Anyway - I'm extremely confused about the amount of explanation I need to put into the narrative. I'd have thought that the reader would occasionally want to try to understand why something odd or enigmatic had just happened, rather than understanding everything as they read the book.

This is a tough one. I would say "Give just enough information to the reader to keep them reading" which is easier said than done. Tidbits of strange should be scattered like raisins in a cookie.

But if I explain things, I don't enjoy reading my own work.

A necessary evil, this. But we've gotta do it!

I know you've said you "see" things in your mind as you write as if on a TV screen. I do too, a lot of writers do. But the problem is the reader doesn't see the action the same way you do. They need the intermediary and translation function of language and story structure to "see" what you see. To use building analogies, the "seeing" is the fun part, like decorating the inside of a house. The writing is the functional part, like the foundation, studs, and drywall. You can't furnish the house unless its construction is sound and windows, doors, and walls are the right places.

GeoJon · Oct 17, 2016

Thank you for the advice.

It is proving quite difficult to know how much detail I need to give in the early stages of the story, especially as the rules are different in this fantasy world. That article helped a lot, JJ Litke - thanks. There's some great advice here and I'll re-read it all before I crack on with the next scene. Also, thanks for the update on pre-planning, Bufty. Normally, every life decision I make starts with me drawing up detailed pros/cons tables and elaborate Gantt charts & mind-maps. It's weird how writing (for me) is the polar opposite and largely unplanned - good to hear that's not unusual!

Thanks again.

Jon

Brightdreamer · Oct 17, 2016

The essay JJ Litke linked to also appears in Orson Scott Card's How To Write Fantasy & Science Fiction - one of the best genre writing books I've read, setting aside the man's politics. Might be worth a look...

GeoJon · Oct 17, 2016

Don't feel bad, Cobalt Jade. Your critique helped immensely! And you were one of quite a lot of people that I had confused.

Part of the reason for some of the confusion was that the first scene used to be the second scene, and there was a lot of info in the original first scene which I dumped on the advice of the forum (too slow for a beginning, too many characters and (ironically) too much of an info dump). So, really I should have re-written the second scene from scratch when it became the new first scene.

But, the main reason for the confusion is I'm still a total novice writer, and am in the process of working things out. This problem with 'how much to explain' was something I just couldn't seem to get to grips with (hence this post).

Cheers

Jon

Cobalt Jade said:
Exactly!

I feel bad, because I've been one of the "confused" culprits Honestly, though, as a reader I do like things crystal-clear in the first few chapters of a book. Later on, once the setting, plot, and characters are established, I don't mind ambiguity or confusion, because by then I have already invested in the story. Let's look at some examples from your chapter from the viewpoint of a reader who is a fantasy fan. They know they are reading a fantasy book with magic in it, so Martin using a power to influence animals is expected and accepted. On the other hand him being a youth of 35 is different and strange. If it was a science fiction book, it might not be, because then he might be of a different species or on a planet with shorter years, but it isn't. So the reader is confused, in this case by conventions of the genre. One person might shrug and keep reading because they want to know what happens. Another might say WTF and stop. The latter is more likely because we're just a few paragraphs in and everything so far is just setup.

If you work in a reference in one of the preceding paragraphs about Martin being a long-lived Iventi, like "He couldn't die now, as a member of the long-lived Iventi tribe he had 200 more years of life to look forward to," the reader might understand. Of course, since he's hanging there trying to escape and in desperate straits, would he really think of this? Methinks a detail like this could wait for later when circumstances in the story dictate you mention it.

This is a tough one. I would say "Give just enough information to the reader to keep them reading" which is easier said than done. Tidbits of strange should be scattered like raisins in a cookie.

A necessary evil, this. But we've gotta do it!

I know you've said you "see" things in your mind as you write as if on a TV screen. I do too, a lot of writers do. But the problem is the reader doesn't see the action the same way you do. They need the intermediary and translation function of language and story structure to "see" what you see. To use building analogies, the "seeing" is the fun part, like decorating the inside of a house. The writing is the functional part, like the foundation, studs, and drywall. You can't furnish the house unless its construction is sound and windows, doors, and walls are the right places.

JJ Litke · Oct 17, 2016

Brightdreamer said:
The essay JJ Litke linked to also appears in Orson Scott Card's How To Write Fantasy & Science Fiction - one of the best genre writing books I've read, setting aside the man's politics. Might be worth a look...

Thank you for adding that! I didn't think 'essay' was right, but I couldn't remember where that bit came from originally (duh, a book). :greenie

blacbird · Oct 17, 2016

As with a lot of questions of this sort, narrative POV is an important consideration. How and when you reveal information depends hugely on narrative technique. And that preference may vary considerably with genre.

caw

Taylor Harbin · Oct 20, 2016

I've had betas tell me I didn't use enough description of the environment or didn't explain the situation up front. In that case, I was trying to put a little mystery into the story and let the reader's imagination do the work. After that experience, I started to question if readers were actually paying attention to the text, so I went the opposite direction and then got critiqued for too much dialogue and exposition. It's enough to make you crazy.

BethS · Oct 20, 2016

Taylor Harbin said:
I've had betas tell me I didn't use enough description of the environment or didn't explain the situation up front. In that case, I was trying to put a little mystery into the story and let the reader's imagination do the work. After that experience, I started to question if readers were actually paying attention to the text, so I went the opposite direction and then got critiqued for too much dialogue and exposition. It's enough to make you crazy.

Well, this is a complex issue. There are a number of factors involved. You have to make sure any description enhances the reader's mental picture and doesn't confuse or overwhelm it. If you withhold information (any kind of information), you have to make sure it's for a good reason and is done in a way that's credible rather than artificial or arbitrary. You have to suit the level of description and information-sharing to the POV and overall style of the narrative.

And then you mix in the reader, who brings his/her own experiences and tastes to the story.

You won't please every reader. It's madness to try. But through practice and experimentation, you can find your own style's "true north." And if it's a readable style and tells the story effectively, it will find its own readers. Sort of like "build it and they will come."

DancingMaenid · Oct 20, 2016

A lot of great advice has been given, so I don't have much to add.

I think critiques of segments of a larger work can be challenging sometimes. When people read, they start forming questions about what's going on. This is especially true when people are reading critically. As people have mentioned here, preferences can vary. Some people do want things spelled out quickly, but others are fine with waiting a little bit as long as they can follow what's happening. Where this line is drawn can be subjective and context-dependent.

The limitation with excerpts is that critiquers might not see when/how something is explained. The questions being raised might not all be answered in the excerpt. Sometimes this is a problem. Sometimes it wouldn't be a problem for most people as long as more information was provided soon.

I wouldn't worry about this too much right now while you're still figuring out the story. When you have a clean draft, it might be helpful to look for a beta reader who can read the entire thing and get a sense of how information is being given in the larger context of the novel's structure.

Mrs-Q · Oct 20, 2016

I second what Dancing Maenid says above. One critique I've gotten on an early chapter of something I'm writing is that I spend a little too much time on the building layout. I did pull back a little when re-writing, but I have a chase scene through the building in chapter 7. So I pulled back on the description and wove it into the next 6 chapters so that I don't have to introduce important elements during the chase.

So "aren't you talking a lot about the building?" becomes "Ok, I need to pull back a little, but it's good they're picking up on it. I just need to weave it in more so they're not tempted to skip."

Sage · Oct 20, 2016

The more experience you have with betas, the more you'll pick up on what actually needs explaining, what is the specific beta getting distracted or confused, and what is just the beta's curiosity. There are plenty of times that a single beta might want an early explanation on something you've deliberately withheld. Could mean that you really need to move an explanation forward or that you have succeeded in creating suspense. One beta might want more explanation of a particular detail, assigning it more importance than it actually has. It's up to you to interpret what the story actually needs based on the beta notes. Multiple betas will help with this, because where they're in agreement, you can guarantee that you have a problem (but it will be up to you to figure out how to fix it). When it's just a single beta's opinion, it takes a lot more consideration about whether you need to make a change or not.

JJ Litke · Oct 20, 2016

Taylor Harbin said:
I've had betas tell me I didn't use enough description of the environment or didn't explain the situation up front. In that case, I was trying to put a little mystery into the story and let the reader's imagination do the work. After that experience, I started to question if readers were actually paying attention to the text, so I went the opposite direction and then got critiqued for too much dialogue and exposition. It's enough to make you crazy.

I've had this happen, too. BethS is right, it's a complex issue.

You've probably seen the classic Neil Gaiman quote: “Remember: when people tell you something’s wrong or doesn’t work for them, they are almost always right. When they tell you exactly what they think is wrong and how to fix it, they are almost always wrong.”

The big takeaway when betas tell you something isn't working is that "something" isn't working. They want to be helpful, so they try to come up with something concrete, and description and exposition are easy things to pick at. That may not be the real issue at all, maybe the story is starting in the wrong place, there's a tone/content mismatch, or they just aren't getting hooked.

blacbird · Oct 20, 2016

I also like Gaiman's quote, and agree completely with it.

It also occurred to me that perhaps the word "explain", as used in this discussion, is part of the problem. You, as writer, should think less in terms of "explaining" stuff and more in terms of "revealing".

caw

Sonsofthepharaohs · Oct 23, 2016

DancingMaenid said:
I think critiques of segments of a larger work can be challenging sometimes. When people read, they start forming questions about what's going on. This is especially true when people are reading critically. As people have mentioned here, preferences can vary. Some people do want things spelled out quickly, but others are fine with waiting a little bit as long as they can follow what's happening. Where this line is drawn can be subjective and context-dependent.

The limitation with excerpts is that critiquers might not see when/how something is explained. The questions being raised might not all be answered in the excerpt. Sometimes this is a problem. Sometimes it wouldn't be a problem for most people as long as more information was provided soon.

I'm fairly used to this reaction when betas read excerpts of my story - they want to know why something is there when it doesn't seem important, or find a particular detail confusing, or say something wasn't explained properly. If it's not meant to be confusing, I either remove or clarify it. But if it's all meant to become clear in a later chapter... well, my response is simply 'read on'. If they read on to the point where it's all meant to make sense and it STILL isn't clear, then it's not working and I need to fix it.

A couple of my betas have sussed this about by style now, and often qualify their comments with things like 'not what this is all about, but I'll reserve judgement til I've read more' etc.

I guess what I'm saying is, you need to build up a relationship with your betas to really get the most meaningful crits

neongrey · Oct 23, 2016

blacbird said:
I also like Gaiman's quote, and agree completely with it.

It also occurred to me that perhaps the word "explain", as used in this discussion, is part of the problem. You, as writer, should think less in terms of "explaining" stuff and more in terms of "revealing".

caw

I like the Gaiman quote, but the thing is, I usually still like hearing how someone else thinks it should be fixed. Knowing something's the wrong answer, and knowing why it's the wrong answer can be a big help into working out the correct direction to go.

How much needs to be explained to the reader.

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