Mass Effect: Andromeda

That is, in fact, Clancy Brown. He voices Papa Ryder.

I'm kind of eh on the trailer. It didn't really share anything new. The Andromeda Initiative teaser last week and the fem!Shep farewell from last year seemed better. But that's just me.

This is a REALLY cool expansion to the ME universe, if you ask me.

Also, a friend of mine said it best...they wanted the ME universe without the Reapers hanging over it. The Reapers make for a VERY cool, very engaging overarching thread - but they also have a tendency to choke out many storytelling possibilities...more so as you come closer and closer to the decision point.

This?

Pure exploration plus ME is just...fucking cool.

Game Informer released a few screenshots today. First reveal of several, it seems.

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2016/11/09/new-mass-effect-andromeda-screenshots.aspx

So... I'm still confused. Are the ME 3 endings being implemented or ignored?

I would like to ignore all of those ME 3 endings, so I'm on the fence on this game. Or at least, ignore that creepy merged Synthetic one.* (~shivers~)

I loved, loved playing Mass Effect 2, and I was thinking of continuing playing through the first Mass Effect (on PC). I am even thinking of finishing ME3, depending on how the DLC approached the endings.

However, I am not sure if the Bioware team has chosen a canon ending?

If the endings are ignored, and the organics stay organics and robots stay robots--no universal non-consensual merged hybrids stuff--then I can really, really get excited about this game.

I love the ME aliens, the universe, the exploration of new areas, the characters and dialogue and quests.

Just everything--excluding said ending.

*ETA: If I had managed to get to the end of ME3, I would definitely have chosen either Control or Destroy. (Though I don't know what the DLC changed in those endings. Hopefully more hopeful?)

There is no canon ending. That's kind of the point, I think.

I'll spoiler-text out what the DLC did with the endings for you, Latina Bunny, but in exchange I'm gonna honk on about theme for awhile!

The DLC is controversial, which is probably appropriate given it was created out of controversy. I'm not going to comment on whether people should or shouldn't have been upset about the endings, in part because it's now immaterial and also because there are situations where game endings get rushed. Bioware released the DLC. Those endings count.

All the DLC does is add a fourth choice--to shoot the Star-Child. If you take this route, Earth is destroyed and Liara's time capsule gets played post-credits, ostensibly for the next race. The cycle continues.

I rather love this ending. If you try to shoot your way out of it, you just confirm the problem. More so than the original endings, it comments directly on the players' own complex, torn desires. It is, in short, great gamewriting--using the player's choice as part of the story's theme.

The other three endings remain effectively the same, but there's an additional couple of shots in the ending cutscene, I think, that kind of show the squad reactions. To some extent, I think these were in the originals as well but depended a lot more on your Galactic Readiness, which was always a bit of a flawed mechanic for a bunch of different reasons I'm not going to nerd out on right now.

I have more mixed feelings about these scenes, but they're also so short as to barely be noticeable. I like that you see the squad again. One of the things that really kicked me about the original endings is that it's really only Shepard's ending and it's not just Shepard's story. I like Anderson but I don't know that I really care about Anderson. If you've invested yourself in your squad and a romance and in all the NPCs around the Galaxy, it's rough to just never see them again after you run into the transference beam.

I originally hated the endings. This article changed my mind, because when you do slow down and actually think about the thematic arc being created and closed in them, the ending makes more sense. The Reapers are the inevitable result of civilization and dependence on technology. Either hated or revered. They are hopeless, but the point the endings are making isn't about hope. It's about how this happens and how we respond, which is in its own way, hopeful.

Shepard can play the Luddite. S/he can play Singularity. Or, because this is Bioware and no choice wheel shall have but two options, you can establish a middle ground. In no ending are the Reapers truly defeated: they're either used, risen above/beyond, or they come again.

Full disclosure: I chose to destroy on my first playthrough. I was angry, I'd internalized all the death on Earth, had realized I wasn't going to see my squad again, and I just went for it. But then, the more I thought about it, the more I realized that was a choice rooted entirely in character: the way I played Shepard but also the way I engaged with this game and with games more generally. I care about those individual stories and relationships, and that anger says something in the ending. I think that's legit. ME has always been about how those relationships are affected by massive historical and military movements--humans joining the Council (all the racism in ME1), the ways different cultures clash and cooperate (ME2, but especially the Geth/Quarians), and finally how civilization changes in the face of the apocalypse (ME3, the refugees, Cerberus).

The ending deals in all of that. It takes a game that's about a million things and brings them together into one, final choice. For all the choices you make, that ME's last choice doesn't matter says a huge amount.

I don't, personally, think the execution works. Which is maybe, in a way, indicative of games' maturity as a medium. ME might be the first franchise to take such an audacious thematic risk in the ending, and that's remarkable. I'm not sure it's the first to do so artfully. I'd put it out there that the Anderson stuff, while poignant, doesn't have enough prior grounding; the final choice relies heavily on a FF9-level Giant Space Flea From Nowhere; and the endings--even the DLC ones--still really fail to offer a meaningful final commentary--negative, positive, or moderate--on those personal relationships formed through the game [1]. So the reaction people have to it is, "wha?" You make this big world-historical choice and it's super relevant to what the game's About but ME isn't just about these big philosophical themes. All along, through three games, it's really about characters, it's about how we interact with people and form bonds across these divides, how those we care about and get to know change our choices, and the ending misses a lot of that while going for the big picture.

Just some thoughts, anyway. I've been meaning to write this for awhile. Curious what people think.

Quick comment on the Andromeda article by way of trying to stay on-topic:

I like the screenshots, but if I read another article where the lead is basically "Frostbite engine blah blah beautiful world blah blah" I'm gonna have a minor fit.

There are a lot of games right now with amazing worlds and no idea, IMO, how to fill them, with the end result of a lot of them (not all) feeling very similar. ME at least has an established and fairly vibrant universe going for it, but that's not just a product of some engine and an art department. It's a product of good writing: having NPCs with distinct voices and distinct problems giving places like Ilium a very, very different feel than the Citadel or Omega.

The Citadel looked its best in ME3, but I actually thought it was a lot more interesting in ME1, maybe because it was new, but also because you could see ships coming in and out of it, you could look out over the arms, you could meet people of different classes and races in different parts of the place. Yeah, the assets didn't look as good--they were rougher, fewer polygons, noticeably easier and cheaper because the franchise was small at the time--but they felt wonderful. ME2-3 and the Citadel had way more shops but really only one place, one environment, and not a whole lot of dynamic content.

I'll get off my cranky soapbox now....

VeryBigBeard said:

There is no canon ending. That's kind of the point, I think.

I'll spoiler-text out what the DLC did with the endings for you, Latina Bunny, but in exchange I'm gonna honk on about theme for awhile!
<cut out to avoid highlighting the spoilers>

Just some thoughts, anyway. I've been meaning to write this for awhile. Curious what people think.

Click to expand...

Ah, thank you for the information about the DLC. I will take a chance and replay the ME series one of these days.

White out text below in case of spoilers:

I will definitely choose any ending that's not the Synthetics one. (I feel like it's a weird non-consensual form of assimilation at a universal level, which scares me a lot.)

For me, I think it's more that I really don't like the themes of hopelessness (or nihilistic feel?), and being told that we will never get along synthetics or whatever. The cycles stuff doesn't make sense to me because I can't accept that meta-weirdness in what-seemed-to-be a straightforward scifi universe with no magic.

I also got that vibe of "diverse peoples and aliens can't get along unless we all become some hybrid thing against our will". It may not be the intentional message, but that's what it feels like to me, since I still couldn't wrap my brain around the never-ending death-reborn-death-reborn-death stuff.

I think it's a clash of philosophy or outlook on humanity, or perhaps misunderstanding of what the themes actually are vs what I originally thought they were.

I just think synthetics can get along with humans and aliens well enough, for example. I mean, didn't we get along with various aliens and some...kinds of robot-ish things (or am I misunderstanding some things)?

At the time, I refused to believe the cycles explanation to the point of thinking it's perhaps all a conspiracy lie made up by Reapers or Star-Child, lol... XD

I hope the endings for this upcoming one are more...hopeful, at least. Something more positive about humanity (and organics in general), because I already kind of despair at humanity, and I can't play a game that makes me feel more depressed about humanity destroying itself or whatever.

For me, Mass Effect felt like a typical fun scifi ride (that touches on minor themes of racism/xenophobia and AI interactions) until ME3...

ETA: Regarding this new game: I'll have to wait and see. I don't wish to see more of the same hopeless "robots destroying organics, so why bother stopping them because something about Cycles" themes repeated again and again.

Just wanted to say that I thought your point about assimilation is a really good one, too. I wanted to work that into it but I thought a.) you said it better than I could, and b.) I was out of space.

I think what they were going for is that Shepard himself is more cybernetic than human after ME2--kind of a Luke becoming Vader thing. That the ending doesn't explicitly call this back may be another fault of execution, since it's trying to leverage it.

As for the Cycles, it may help if you think of the Reapers as a representation of what we're capable of; basically, the natural end-point of a society that can't get past hate. Granted, I see the hopelessness in that. ME is a dystopia. On the other hand, it's absolutely true that some of the best moments are when the characters get past racial grudges (Tali/Legion, in particular; don't know if you got to the end of Rannoch but Tali answering Legion's "does this unit have a soul?" question is pretty damn heartfelt). That's the part I'm not sure computes so well with the endings. Extending it through the Synthesis ending kind of casts Shepard in a messianic light, too, which is kind of morally icky, honestly.

So I definitely think your critique of the ending is one of the best I've read. A lot of people just wanted to be able to kill all the bad guys without thinking about it. I think as long as players are thinking then it's job done, and that puts it up there among video game endings.

My understanding is that Andromeda's a prequel, though, so I'd guess you've got a pretty good shot at a rousing ending given humanity has to join the Council at some point in there.

VeryBigBeard said:

Just wanted to say that I thought your point about assimilation is a really good one, too. I wanted to work that into it but I thought a.) you said it better than I could, and b.) I was out of space.

I think what they were going for is that Shepard himself is more cybernetic than human after ME2--kind of a Luke becoming Vader thing. That the ending doesn't explicitly call this back may be another fault of execution, since it's trying to leverage it.

As for the Cycles, it may help if you think of the Reapers as a representation of what we're capable of; basically, the natural end-point of a society that can't get past hate. Granted, I see the hopelessness in that. ME is a dystopia. On the other hand, it's absolutely true that some of the best moments are when the characters get past racial grudges (Tali/Legion, in particular; don't know if you got to the end of Rannoch but Tali answering Legion's "does this unit have a soul?" question is pretty damn heartfelt). That's the part I'm not sure computes so well with the endings. Extending it through the Synthesis ending kind of casts Shepard in a messianic light, too, which is kind of morally icky, honestly.

So I definitely think your critique of the ending is one of the best I've read. A lot of people just wanted to be able to kill all the bad guys without thinking about it. I think as long as players are thinking then it's job done, and that puts it up there among video game endings.

My understanding is that Andromeda's a prequel, though, so I'd guess you've got a pretty good shot at a rousing ending given humanity has to join the Council at some point in there.

Click to expand...

Oh, I don't think the endings are terrible, per se. They're very good attempts, and I do appreciate that the company was trying some different kinds of themes that were more complex (less "black and white").

They're just not what I expected theme-wise (because I was thinking that ME was more hopeful, and I thought things were a bit black and white in past games, pre-ME3), so the nihilistic/fatalistic felt like they just came out of left field for me as the series progressed into ME3.

I think the endings perhaps could have more of an earlier build-up, if that makes sense? I think if they had added more hints about the themes the team was trying to aim for in those endings, then I think the endings could have been more satisfying and wouldn't have felt as jarring (for me).

I think it's pretty much an expectations thing, and that it felt like the endings did not having sufficient, clear build-up from previous games. (I liked everything until the Reapers showed up and changed the feel of the overall story.)

You mentioned that ME was dystopia. I didn't know this. 0_0 Was it really meant to be a dystopia?

I thought ME was just a straightforward good vs evil scifi universe with some rough-and-tumble dark or noir elements that still had lots of opportunities/possibilities of hope and some optimism--being such a huge galaxy/universe and all.

If it was meant to be a fatalistic/nihilistic dystopian story, then that could explain my strong dislike of the themes of the endings: I am not one for dystopian (and most post-apocalyptic) fiction in all mediums, lol. XD

I tend to prefer more optimistic scifi (or fun, heroic scifi stuff) when I do touch scifi stuff at all.

(And I need some optimism, what with Trump and some other prejudiced people getting ready to take charge of my country and worrisome stuff like that...)

Anyway, sorry for the derail. I just wanted to express why I felt so disappointed with the endings.

For now, I'm going to wait for more information to see if similar themes are going to be making an appearance again.

It's still an excellent series, and I did love playing ME2 and the bits I did play of ME 1 (and a little bit of ME3 before I gave it away). I would still highly recommend this series to others, for sure.

Hey guys, think maybe isn't the place, but I gotta ask: Anyone else take the 'Green Door' ending in ME3? I did, and was totally OK with it. Does that make me a monster?

Maxinquaye said:

New video!

Shows snippets of the story, and shows environments (looks gorgeous!) as well as some game play.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOIzH6UcoW4

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Nice. I will check it out later, but I wouldn't be surprised at the lovely environments. Bioware does gorgeous details, and I love that about them.

Kjbartolotta said:

Hey guys, think maybe isn't the place, but I gotta ask: Anyone else take the 'Green Door' ending in ME3? I did, and was totally OK with it. Does that make me a monster?

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"Green Door"? You mean, the Synthesis ending?

Eh, I think it depends on whether a person believes that the ends justify the means, and whether they think it's morally right to do such things to a huge universe of diverse peoples, and whether one believes that it is a realistic situation (I personally don't).

I have already mentioned my own thoughts about the endings in the past posts, but I always thought, and still do, that the Synthesis ending was the most unrealistic (in fact, almost almost childlike in its harmonious symplistic answers to complex problems of society) and the most creepiest (in my eyes, it feels like assimilation without consent and an extreme invasion of organic people's bodies) of all of the endings.

Yes, for real. I would rather have humanity die out fighting for freedom than deal with such a non-consensual situation like that.

I think the ending is very morally sticky, and it makes me feel very, very uncomfortable (almost sickened) with its implications, but other players may think about the ending differently and interpret it in other ways (because people are different and don't think the same way, obviously ).

The devs obviously see that ending as a "good thing", for example, while I personally see it as an invasive, creepy, and morally questionable ending.

I think it all depends on how one interprets the ending, and whether one feels which ending, out of the limited choices the devs give you, is the best one for the situation.

Obviously, this is fiction, so I am not going to think someone's a monster for choosing something in a fictional game, especially when the devs make it seem like the player is right for choosing it.

But...if something like this situation happened in real life, and someone did something like that to all people of the Earth... I would definitely be one of the people who would be pissed off (and creeped out) about being altered without consent. I would feel that there would be other humans, and maybe other aliens (if aliens were real), who would feel the same.

In real life, I don't think the outcome would have end up as happy (or nonchalant) as the devs make it out to be, because I feel that would be very unrealistic. We have a world with many diverse peoples with different beliefs (and different religions) and values, etc, and I doubt all of the inhabitants would be cool with being altered like that, even if the process is done with good intentions.

After all, I wouldn't want a doctor to alter my body in any way without my knowledge and consent, even if the doctor did it for "my own good" or had good intentions. *shivers* I don't think I am alone in thinking this. I am very pro-choice, and very pro-consent about my body.

Personally, I would think there would be many wars and fights and uncomftorabtle situations to come out of that kind of ending in real life. I know I would be a very unhappy citizen in such a world.

ETA: It reminds me of the whole Krogan and Mordin situation and the conflicting morals of that situation, actually.

I just feel that altering all people without their knowledge and consent is a slippery slope to something much more dangerous.

Sorry for the rambling. Just voicing my frustrations with such an ending and the devs thinking that it's a simplisitic happy ending to the world's problems...

Hopefully, this new Mass Effect game avoids that route of thinking again, or I am going to have to agree to disagree with the devs' philosophy and way of thinking, and I would definitely have to move on permanently from this franchise...

Latina Bunny said:

The devs obviously see that ending as a "good thing", for example, while I personally see it as an invasive, creepy, and morally questionable ending.

...

Obviously, this is fiction, so I am not going to think someone's a monster for choosing something in a fictional game, especially when the devs make it seem like the player is right for choosing it.

...the devs thinking that it's a simplisitic happy ending to the world's problems...

Click to expand...

I think this is just assumptions of what the developers think.

Each of the options has its pros and cons. In this case, it's effectively forcing an evolution onto the entire galaxy.* You're playing God. But there are instances of where playing God in the galaxy has had beneficial outcomes (the Protheans uplifting the asari) or negative consequences (the Krogan Rebellions). And Cerberus playing God brought Shepard back, stronger and faster, themselves having benefited from a "synthesis" of organic and synthetic. If you hold the power in your hands to change everyone in the galaxy for the better, do you even have the right to make that choice?

After all, the entire series is about being the sole arbiter of decisions that determined the fates of numerous people and entire races. And it isn't the only option available to you. And it's not even the outcome that requires the highest EMS, either.

*I wonder if this sort of topic has ever come up in Pokemon discussions regarding the morality of using evolutionary stones on your Pokemon.

lilyWhite said:

I think this is just assumptions of what the developers think.

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I can only guess based on how they present their story, and I am one of those who feel that a person's biases, prejudices, beliefs, and cultural values or philosophies can bleed into a fictional work as well, so...yeah. I think I am allowed to make judgements and interpretations based on what is presented to me (like readers can with novels, etc).

I just felt that the way Synthesis was presented (with such a harmony ending), and based on seeing many other players' reactions, that it seems most likely seen as the "best" choice for the universe. The other choices seemed to have more negative consequences or don't have that hopeful harmony feel, to me.

(And I also didn't like the devs' somewhat earlier dismissive attitude towards people who didn't like or who were disappointed with the endings. I also disliked EA's disimissive attitudes towards the manh players being disappointed with their Sims franchise, too, and their bad PR statements and mishandling of Sims 4, so I am being super-cautious of anything EA.)

Like Sophia, I never bought into the "synthetics and organics will always be in endless conflict and there is nothing we can do about it" theory/mentality that the game presents to us, especially how it was presented in ME3. It felt very...weird, maybe jarring, after what I had gone through in previous games. (Didn't Tali make friends or peace with Legion or something similar, for example? Can't remember right now.)

So, I am still very on the fence about Andromeda.

Hopefully it will be good, like past ME games, but I don't want to go through another huge disappointment again, so I am a feeling a bit skittish about immersing myself into this franchise again. (I loved ME to the point of buying the artbook, some comics, and a few novels, before ME3 soured me on the franchise.)

Back on Topic: Anyway, just watched the video that Maxinquaye linked to.

The gameplay looked good. I loved the aliens, of course, and it seems interesting.

However....the lack of facial animations is just BAD. 0_0;; Did they even EMOTE at all? Their animations feel stiff, too. (And I say this as someone who does play okay/decent/good indie games with lackluster animations and/or voiceacting.)

The voice-acting of the main protagonist sounds kind of flat and boring so far.... Is she a robot? XD

Ok, okay, I know this is not usually their area of strength (and they usually make up for it with great voice acting, plot, spectacle, and music), but at this point, Bioware really, really needs to step up its human animation game, especially after games like Tomb Raider and Uncharted and many others having slightly, er, more natural animations and expressions than that...

ETA: Ohhh, thank goodness! The devs are reassuring the fans concerned with the humans' crappy lip syncing and facial animation that they will keep polishing the game. PHEW!

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...-fans-after-trailer-sparks-animation-concerns

I've heard that programming facial animations is harder for fully customizable faces like Shepard's or Ryder's. I've also heard they haven't really done much with programming her facial movements in that scene. I sure hope not. The scene where she rips the gun out of the turian's hands was horrible. :| Hope they fix it like they say they will.

I highly doubt an ending like ME3's is going to reoccur. They really dropped the ball there, but it seems super unlikely to me that they would allow such a massive flop like that to happen again. As it is, Bioware's lifesigns have been petering out with the last few games. Should they fail now, they're probably going under. It'll be another corpse on the EA body pile. It also doesn't help them that the devs and writers have been shuffling around in between each game, and they can't seem to hold onto people. That does not suggest good things are happening on the inside.

All in all... I'm still excited by the latest trailer. Krogan (yesplz) and female turian squadmates (superduperyesplz) looked great, though so far I'm unimpressed with Peebee. More specifically, I cannot stand that nickname. Lol

Looking forward to more

I watched a Q&A with Mac Walters the other day and he said that ME:A is not planned as a trilogy; the story is self-contained. They're trying to leave the universe open so that future games will not be forced to conform to a huge amount of choices that carry over to each game, painting themselves into the corner that (he feels) they were in with ME3.

He didn't say that there wouldn't be game saves that would carry over to the next game, but he implied that it wouldn't be to the degree of the original ME trilogy. I can see the pros and cons to this approach. It doesn't really bother me (it's actually kind of a relief) because this sound more like the approach that Dragon Age has taken, where decisions that affect the world can be carried over, but nothing that carries a huge amount of weight for the ending of a game that might come out years from now.

I played the first one and enjoyed it at first. The planets were really pretty, but after a while, all the planets and scenarios started to feel the same, as did the loot. Somehow, I never felt the same way with the Dragon Age games--that I was exploring the same zones and buildings over and over again. And darn it, I wanted to be able to add things to my ship. I'm hoping that modern computing systems will allow this newest one to be more varied.

Opty said:

I
He didn't say that there wouldn't be game saves that would carry over to the next game, but he implied that it wouldn't be to the degree of the original ME trilogy. I can see the pros and cons to this approach. It doesn't really bother me (it's actually kind of a relief) because this sound more like the approach that Dragon Age has taken, where decisions that affect the world can be carried over, but nothing that carries a huge amount of weight for the ending of a game that might come out years from now.

Click to expand...

So maybe it would be more like the Dragon Age games, then? With choices one made in the earlier games having some effects on the background story, narrative, world state, and on the backstories of some of the characters who showed up in more than one of them (whether as npcs or companions), but the protagonist/customizable character would be different each time.

I definitely want to play MEA, assuming it's coming out for PC.

Opty said:

I watched a Q&A with Mac Walters the other day and he said that ME:A is not planned as a trilogy; the story is self-contained. They're trying to leave the universe open so that future games will not be forced to conform to a huge amount of choices that carry over to each game, painting themselves into the corner that (he feels) they were in with ME3.

He didn't say that there wouldn't be game saves that would carry over to the next game, but he implied that it wouldn't be to the degree of the original ME trilogy. I can see the pros and cons to this approach. It doesn't really bother me (it's actually kind of a relief) because this sound more like the approach that Dragon Age has taken, where decisions that affect the world can be carried over, but nothing that carries a huge amount of weight for the ending of a game that might come out years from now.

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Ooooh, this sounds very reassuring! ^_^

I loved how Dragon Age treated the saves and choices, so it would be awesome for the new Mass Effect games to follow that structure/format as well. (I really love the Dragon Age series. )

I actually started playing the saga for the first time this week, all the way back from ME 1. Ignoring the fact that touchpads are NOT the way to go with FPS, I've having a blast. Also, so sad to hear the Mako isn't available in the next installations.

One month to go! Oh man, I hope this delivers because it's looking bad ass:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrWgLMH8yRU&t=2s

IGN posted 17 minutes of pre-release gameplay footage today from PeeBee's loyalty mission. The landscapes look great.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9rwdaI8rCo