Colin Kaepernick Sits Through National Anthem Last Night

mccardey said:

The Outrage Train, NT? Everyone's already agreed with you. This may be the least divisive P&CE item this week.

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You must be reading a different P&CE item than I am, mccardey.

William Haskins said:

good for him, as long as:

• he doesn't whine about any sanctions that might be imposed for non-compliance with his employee contract (not sure if there would be or not), and
• some of that 20 million he has in the bank has been dished out to good causes to back up his public posturing

otherwise a millionaire sitting on his ass isn't really news.

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Right, because God forbid a Black athlete not be terrified he'll be sanctioned by the team for breaking a rule in his contract which doesn't exist.

Colin Kapernick will make $11 million bucks this season to sit on the bench as the third-string quarterback the same way Robert Griffin III did last season for the Washington professional football team and if he wants to spend that money on good causes to back up his public posturing principles or blow it on hookers, booze and porn, that would still be nobody's business but his own.

c.e.lawson said:

1) it's bad logic. The flag is a powerful symbol of the American ideal. The American ideal does not tolerate the oppression of minorities. Quite the opposite, in fact. There are laws against it. Because it occurs does not mean the country, the flag, the government (headed by a minority President) or the Constitution mandates it.
2) It's bad timing for him, personally. He's the 3rd stringer in the most public position on the team
3) it's a bad method of protest for someone in a rah rah American pastime like the NFL, who receives his paycheck from said organization. (of course, that does make him appear more courageous)
4) it's bad for the team. Standing as a team for the national anthem is a show of solidarity for each other and the organization, and as someone in a leadership position on the field, it will likely have negative repercussions within the team. And the 49ers this year are already struggling.

That said, I don't see anyone, anywhere, saying he does not have the right to do it. That, also, is an American ideal.

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Then why are we here? If there's no disagreement then we can speed this thread to its inevitable fall off from the "What's New?" to the "Who Cares?"

Since we are here though, in reverse order:

(4). It's bad for the team? Too late. This IS a bad team. It's a bad team because there is an idiot owner and a idiot general manager who ran outta town one of the best coaches in the NFL and the best coach the team had since the days of Bill Walsh and George Seifert. My Sports Illustrated NFL Preview issue came in the mail the other day. The two worst teams are projected to win four games. Three for the 49ers and one for the Browns. They may be overly optimistic.

(3). It's a bad way to protest in the NFL because its such a rah-rah league full of America No#1 displays of patriotism? Sure it is because the military PAYS for those displays. Patriotism to the NFL means as much as cheerleaders shaking their money makers do: it's part of The Show.

(2). It's bad timing for Kapernick? How ya figure that? He'll make over $600,000 per game to sit on his butt during the National Anthem. He won't get hit and he won't get hurt. All he has to do is sit there on Sundays and watch rotten football played by a rotten team he no longer wants to be part of. The Niners tried to trade Kapernick during the off-season and couldn't get a deal done. Even if they can't stand the sight of him, he's guaranteed every dime of his dollars. He's a third stringer who will make more bank than two 1st round busts (Blaine Gabbert and Christian Ponder) and a 6th rounder (Jeff Driskell) who will be lucky to even make the developmental squad.

We should all have such "bad timing."

(1). "The flag is a powerful symbol of the American ideal. The American ideal does not tolerate the oppression of minorities. Quite the opposite, in fact."

I can't stop rolling my eyes and laughing insanely long enough to answer that one.

nighttimer said:

You must be reading a different P&CE item than I am, mccardey.

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Perhaps I am misreading or something, but all I saw the OP posting the story (but not commenting) and then a lot of Yes, and?

I could be missing something in tone, though.

Diana Hignutt said:

I'm pretty meh on this one.

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That's generally my reaction too. If we're supposed to be celebrating "the land of the free," shouldn't you be free to stay seated during the national anthem? I can see how this makes some people angry, but I don't really care about it one way or the other.

Can't help thinking Rosa Parks wouldn't stand up either.

I'm rather empathetic given all the deaths at the hands of police that have been caught on camera as of late. I don't agree with everyone in the Black Lives Matter movement but I do believe they have a legitimate cause.

Perhaps the "American Ideal" doesn't tolerate the oppression of minorities, but the "American Reality" sure thinks it's just fine.

If Kaepernick has a gripe and not standing at the anthem feels like a segue to voice his point of view, I'm absolutely fine with that. Near-compulsory flag reverence is bizarre to me. Now if we could only do away with the creepyass Pledge of Allegiance.

I don't care. I really don't. He's free to do this. It's no skin off my nose. And I'm free to ignore him (which I'm sure doesn't concern him, either).

Perks said:

If Kaepernick has a gripe and not standing at the anthem feels like a segue to voice his point of view, I'm absolutely fine with that. Near-compulsory flag reverence is bizarre to me. Now if we could only do away with the creepyass Pledge of Allegiance.

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This. It is creepy. I've had two recent instances where it was, uh... conducted?... and it feels so wrong.

I like the song. It makes me cry. The pledge makes my skin crawl.

Perks said:

Now if we could only do away with the creepyass Pledge of Allegiance.

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Chrissy said:

This. It is creepy. I've had two recent instances where it was, uh... conducted?... and it feels so wrong.
...
The pledge makes my skin crawl.

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President Trump will lead the nation in The Pledge on TV and Radio every morning, and I expect he'll also bring back the original salute.

Don said:

President Trump will lead the nation in The Pledge on TV and Radio every morning, and I expect he'll also bring back the original salute.

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Whoa, whoa whoa, that requires a level of organisation. He could do it. For a day or maybe if we are lucky, two. But after that he's got a shinier thing to look at.

Perks said:

If Kaepernick has a gripe and not standing at the anthem feels like a segue to voice his point of view, I'm absolutely fine with that. Near-compulsory flag reverence is bizarre to me. Now if we could only do away with the creepyass Pledge of Allegiance.

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especially the "under God" part

nighttimer said:

Right, because God forbid a Black athlete not be terrified he'll be sanctioned by the team for breaking a rule in his contract which doesn't exist.

Colin Kapernick will make $11 million bucks this season to sit on the bench as the third-string quarterback the same way Robert Griffin III did last season for the Washington professional football team and if he wants to spend that money on good causes to back up his public posturing principles or blow it on hookers, booze and porn, that would still be nobody's business but his own.

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but really we're all just here expressing our opinions here, NT. so here are some, in no particular order:

compulsory participation in nationalistic ritual is bullshit.

kapernick has the right to do whatever he wants as long as he is prepared to suffer the consequences that come with it. you know, like regular people.

kapernick is a shitty quarterback who folds like a cheap card table under pressure.

Celia Cyanide said:

especially the "under God" part

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Not only that, but pledging allegiance in general. As though we need to promise at random functions (like high school graduations, state board of accountancy meetings) that... what, exactly? That we won't commit treason?

And kids in school (at least in my area) say it every day, like good little acolytes. Heil!

Just had an interesting convo with my hubs and my son about the Pledge. I stopped saying it in junior high. I still stood because I wasn't quite brave enough, but I didn't do the hand-on-heart thing, and I didn't say the words. So when my son expressed his annoyance that he had to say it (in grade school) I told him it was his choice, that I'd back him with the school if he wanted to stay seated. My husband just now heard this story and he's very annoyed with us. "Why should we have to pledge allegiance?" I ask him. "WHY NOT?" he answers. *sigh*

And this is a guy who's relatively liberal. If he can't understand the failure of logic of pledging allegiance to THE FLAG (not the Constitution, mind) I don't know what to tell him.

Yeah, that the allegiance is literally to the flag, versus to the country, makes it even stranger. I assume the meaning is to the country ("and to the republic for which it stands"), which the flag represents. Still don't get the point. The idea that children from age 5 or 6 start reciting it? :/ Not to mention that it probably loses any meaning it might have had after the first 1,000 or so recitals.

Chrissy said:

Yeah, that the allegiance is literally to the flag, versus to the country, makes it even stranger. I assume the meaning is to the country, which the flag represents. Still don't get the point. The idea that children from age 5 or 6 start reciting it? :/ Not to mention that it probably loses all meaning after the first 1,000 or so recitals.

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Loses all meaning to whom? You're making some pretty big assumptions. Many people still believe in pledging allegiance to their nation via pledging it to the flag of that nation, and see no contradiction in it. The flag is a symbol of government, history, those who fought and those who died for the rights of others, and of unity.

Chrissy said:

Not only that, but pledging allegiance in general. As though we need to promise at random functions (like high school graduations, state board of accountancy meetings) that... what, exactly? That we won't commit treason?

And kids in school (at least in my area) say it every day, like good little acolytes. Heil!

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I say we should honor the history the history of the Pledge by bringing back the salute paired with it. Maybe that will get people thinking about what the Pledge really is.

Lillith1991 said:

Loses all meaning to whom? You're making some pretty big assumptions. Many people still believe in pledging allegiance to their nation via pledging it to the flag of that nation, and see no contradiction in it. The flag is a symbol of government, history, those who fought and those who died for the rights of others, and of unity.

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It lost all meaning for me. For most of my time during the years we did have to recite every day, I didn't think about the meaning of it at all - it was just something we did to start the school day.

Lillith1991 said:

Loses all meaning to whom? You're making some pretty big assumptions. Many people still believe in pledging allegiance to their nation via pledging it to the flag of that nation, and see no contradiction in it. The flag is a symbol of government, history, those who fought and those who died for the rights of others, and of unity.

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I never claimed any "contradiction." I see a sentiment that, in and of itself, should not be rote for school-aged children. I think repetition of these sorts of sentiments for young people in our country are more likely to make them meaningless than meanigful.

Eta: we can teach our children about our country, its history, its heroes, and its successes, as well as its failures. No pledges required. They will be better served by it. The world will be better served by it. Imo.

ElaineA said:

And this is a guy who's relatively liberal. If he can't understand the failure of logic of pledging allegiance to THE FLAG (not the Constitution, mind) I don't know what to tell him.

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Regardless of how one feels about the Pledge and standing/not standing, I think it only fair to note that it's not a logic fail at all, imo. The flag is a symbolic representation of the nation and its foundation (the Constitution). The Pledge essentially says this.

In our elementary school, students are not required to stand for the pledge of allegiance. They are free to sit as long as they are respect others and stay silent during the pledge.

It's the "Land of the Free", after all, and people shouldn't be forced to do minor social rituals that they do not wish to partake in.

As long as no one is harmed in any way, I think it's all good.

No outrage from me about this particular news. IMHO, it's relatively harmless and should be permitted.

Maybe Kaepernick is saving his energy so he can stand in the quarterback pocket better, something he didn't do very well last year.

caw

blacbird said:

Maybe Kaepernick is saving his energy so he can stand in the quarterback pocket better, something he didn't do very well last year.

caw

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This does bring up a bit of a point I'm curious about. Would there be the same reaction if a well like, successful player did the same thing. If someone like Russell Wilson did it, you may be seeing more people saying it's good for him to take a stand and far less America: love it or leave it comments.

LittlePinto said:

I say we should honor the history the history of the Pledge by bringing back the salute paired with it. Maybe that will get people thinking about what the Pledge really is.

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You have to read the caption to that photo. It explains that what you are seeing is a bunch of school kids INCORRECTLY executing the salute. The salute is too complicated for average school kids to do correctly? They couldn't remember palm up vs. palm down???

Mi Oh said:

You have to read the caption to that photo. It explains that what you are seeing is a bunch of school kids INCORRECTLY executing the salute. The salute is too complicated for average school kids to do correctly? They couldn't remember palm up vs. palm down???

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That's not the point (insofar as I understood LittlePinto's point). The photo shows allegiance by a group of children. It doesn't matter which way their palms were facing. The point is that they are children, saluting. It's a symbol of indoctrination, whether it's Nazi Germany or the good ol' US of A. At least, that's how I saw it.