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Thread: Colin Kaepernick Sits Through National Anthem Last Night

  1. #1
    . c.e.lawson's Avatar
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    Colin Kaepernick Sits Through National Anthem Last Night

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300...ational-anthem

    SANTA CLARA, Calif. -- San Francisco 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick has willingly immersed himself into controversy by refusing to stand for the playing of the national anthem in protest of what he deems are wrongdoings against African Americans and minorities in the United States.

    His latest refusal to stand for the anthem -- he has done this in at least one other preseason game -- came before the 49ers' preseason loss to Green Bay at Levi's Stadium on Friday night.

    "I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color," Kaepernick told NFL Media in an exclusive interview after the game. "To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder."
    My opinion regarding his particular situation:

    I'm not fond of his method of protest, for a few reasons. I will post more after I see others' thoughts.

  2. #2
    practical experience, FTW cornflake's Avatar
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    I can't with the outrage.

    Since when is there some requirement to stand up? He feels not doing so is a form of protest? Go him. Someone else doesn't give a rat's ass and doesn't stand up? Go them.

  3. #3
    Beastly Fido Roxxsmom's Avatar
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    Since when are people in a free country like ours obliged to engage in any social ritual they feel unwilling or unable to partake in? In this case, it's an expression of his free speech, right? But there are plenty of other reasons a person might not stand also, from a disability, to their back or feet killing them that day, to not caring, to not believing in that form of expression, regardless of their personal feelings about public policy. I support all of them.
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  4. #4
    Barricade AW Moderator regdog's Avatar
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    It is his right to not stand, and I fail to see why it should be a controversy. It is the right of every American to be critical of the government and protest against it.
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  5. #5
    practical experience, FTW cornflake's Avatar
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    It's not just protesting the government though - I mean he apparently wanted not standing to be taken as a form of protest against the government, which is fine; I'm on board.

    Some people don't stand because they're anti the entire idea that you're supposed to stand, or think the anthem itself is offensive, or sixteen other reasons. It's utterly inane, imo, that people care one way or another. If someone wants to stand up, go them. Why does anyone care whether anyone else is standing up?

  6. #6
    Dragon of the Multiverse AW Moderator Zoombie's Avatar
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    Hell, I'd say it's the duty of every American to be critical of their govermant.
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  7. #7
    All about that action, boss. ElaineA's Avatar
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    Here's a really interesting piece (IMO) from Ray Ratto at CSN Bay Area exploring more how this will play in our current cultural climate than the actual protest itself. I thought this quote reflected the reality I've experienced over time.
    We are not, despite the brochures, a tolerant nation. We are, when stirred, an aggressively closed-minded one, and never more so than on binary issues like the flag and the anthem.
    The fact that rote words can upset the masses while legislatures passing laws to restrict voting rights doesn't is beyond my ability to logic out.

  8. #8
    Jambo Bwana
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    Doesn't bother me. The whole connection between sports and national anthems has always seemed a bit bizarre to me, anyway.

    As a slight aside, this reminded me of that Jacob Appel novel,The Man who Wouldn't Stand Up.
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  9. #9
    good for him, as long as:


    • he doesn't whine about any sanctions that might be imposed for non-compliance with his employee contract (not sure if there would be or not), and
    • some of that 20 million he has in the bank has been dished out to good causes to back up his public posturing


    otherwise a millionaire sitting on his ass isn't really news.
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  10. #10
    Beastly Fido Roxxsmom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoombie View Post
    Hell, I'd say it's the duty of every American to be critical of their govermant.
    Yes, but only the same aspects of government that I'm critical of, and only in ways that don't make me uncomfortable personally.

    Seriously, compared to the ways people can and sometimes do protest, this is quite mild and well within the realms of politeness, imo.
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  11. #11
    Player of the Year nighttimer's Avatar
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    Before the Outrage Train leaves the station, here's a little lump of coal for the engine of information.

    Twenty years ago, the NBA suspended a player who refused to stand for the national anthem. The NFL will not be doing the same thing.

    “Players are encouraged but not required to stand during the playing of the National Anthem,” the NFL said in a statement issued Saturday, in response to the controversy that emerged when 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick opted not to stand during the playing of the national anthem on Friday night in Santa Clara, prior to a game against the Packers.


    “I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses Black people and people of color,” Kaepernick has since said. “To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder.”

    The NBA based its suspension of Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf on a rule that requires players to stand during the playing of the national anthem. The NFL has no such rule, and the Collective Bargaining Agreement is silent on the subject.
    "Encouraged" is different from "required." As both a lifelong 49ers fan and a veteran of the armed forces of the United States of the America who defended this nation, do you know how many damns I have to give about Colin Kapernick not standing for the Pledge of Allegiance?














    You wanna count 'em again?

    One of our rights as a citizen of this country is not to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance and I defend the right of a guy making $11 million this season to likely sit on the bench to do so. Ain't that America?

  12. #12
    . c.e.lawson's Avatar
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    1) it's bad logic. The flag is a powerful symbol of the American ideal. The American ideal does not tolerate the oppression of minorities. Quite the opposite, in fact. There are laws against it. Because it occurs does not mean the country, the flag, the government (headed by a minority President) or the Constitution mandates it.
    2) It's bad timing for him, personally. He's the 3rd stringer in the most public position on the team
    3) it's a bad method of protest for someone in a rah rah American pastime like the NFL, who receives his paycheck from said organization. (of course, that does make him appear more courageous)
    4) it's bad for the team. Standing as a team for the national anthem is a show of solidarity for each other and the organization, and as someone in a leadership position on the field, it will likely have negative repercussions within the team. And the 49ers this year are already struggling.

    That said, I don't see anyone, anywhere, saying he does not have the right to do it. That, also, is an American ideal.

  13. #13
    please distract me mccardey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nighttimer View Post
    Before the Outrage Train leaves the station, here's a little lump of coal for the engine of information.
    The Outrage Train, NT? Everyone's already agreed with you. This may be the least divisive P&CE item this week.

  14. #14
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    My problem with that line of logic is that too many people have elevated the flag as a symbol above the principles and values it supposedly represents. One of the most important of those values is the right to dissent. Which is what Kaepernick was doing.
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  15. #15
    Jambo Bwana
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    Quote Originally Posted by c.e.lawson View Post
    1) The flag is a powerful symbol of the American ideal.
    I think it's fine if people want to believe that. But not everyone does believe that.

    Same for the anthem.
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  16. #16
    Lost in the Fog rugcat's Avatar
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    Of course he has the right to refuse to stand.

    But Kaepernick has a long history of difficult public relations with the team and the fans in San Francisco. Alex Smith, their quarterback, had led the 49ers to nine straight wins before he was injured. Kaepernick took over, played well, ( although he lost the big ones) and Alex Smith never played again. Smith was a class act, never complained, kept his mouth shut, and was traded the next year.

    Kaepernick, unlike Smith, proved to be surly, dismissive, contemptuous of fans and media, and was not particularly popular even at the height of his success. When the team began to struggle and he played poorly, the fans gleefully piled onto him – something he well deserved, Imo.

    Had he been a respected sports figure, his refusal to stand would have been an interesting demonstration of conscience, and I think would have received much support along with some condemnation.

    But he is so disliked that it's seen by many as nothing more than a stunt and another example of his unpleasant and contentious personality. Maybe that's not fair, but it's the way it is. Personally, I never forgave the 49ers for how they treated Alex Smith, and I would happy to never see Colin Kaepernick in a 49ers uniform again.
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  17. #17
    Beastly Fido Roxxsmom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by c.e.lawson View Post
    1) it's bad logic. The flag is a powerful symbol of the American ideal. The American ideal does not tolerate the oppression of minorities. Quite the opposite, in fact. There are laws against it. Because it occurs does not mean the country, the flag, the government (headed by a minority President) or the Constitution mandates it.
    Clearly the American Ideal permits the oppression of minority groups, and of women too (not a minority), because these groups have been oppressed throughout the history of this country, and they still are in some ways. And even when it falls short of what many would call oppression, unequal treatment is still a fact of life for many. One can be tolerant of something, or not proactive enough about fighting it, without mandating it.

    Either that, or our country has failed, and is still failing, to live up to its ideals of liberty and justice for all. One can choose to protest because they feel their country is failing to live up to its ideals too.

    2) It's bad timing for him, personally. He's the 3rd stringer in the most public position on the team
    3) it's a bad method of protest for someone in a rah rah American pastime like the NFL, who receives his paycheck from said organization. (of course, that does make him appear more courageous)
    Perhaps, but that's his choice, and certainly not grounds for outrage. The protest either works the way he hoped it would or it doesn't, so

    4) it's bad for the team. Standing as a team for the national anthem is a show of solidarity for each other and the organization, and as someone in a leadership position on the field, it will likely have negative repercussions within the team. And the 49ers this year are already struggling.
    That's between him and his team. The 49ers are currently struggling, methinks, because of the mix of players, coaching, randomness, how well other teams are doing, and for countless other reasons that figure into the nature of the beast (not all teams can have winning seasons, and only one will win the championship). Would it be more acceptable, then, for a player on a winning team to engage in social commentary or protest? Or would he then be criticized for jeopardizing his team's shot at a championship?

    That said, I don't see anyone, anywhere, saying he does not have the right to do it. That, also, is an American ideal.
    No, but people seem to be scrambling to find fault and to enumerate reasons why he shouldn't be doing this for this particular issue, at this time, and in this way.

    Honestly, I've no idea if this protest stems from deeply held personal beliefs, or if it's a poorly thought out, childish tantrum by an unpleasantly contentious player, or if it's a silly publicity stunt by a third-string player who wishes he were getting more attention from the media. I don't really care either.
    Last edited by Roxxsmom; 08-28-2016 at 01:42 AM.
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  18. #18
    Herder of Hamsters AW Admin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nighttimer View Post
    As both a lifelong 49ers fan and a veteran of the armed forces of the United States of the America who defended this nation, do you know how many damns I have to give about Colin Kapernick not standing for the Pledge of Allegiance?
    He's got a point; it's a perfectly reasonable method of protest, especially for someone with a public profile.














    You wanna count 'em again?

    One of our rights as a citizen of this country is not to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance and I defend the right of a guy making $11 million this season to likely sit on the bench to do so. Ain't that America?[/QUOTE]

  19. #19
    . c.e.lawson's Avatar
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    I'm on my phone, so I won't use the multi quote thingy.

    Michael Wolfe - in the context of the NFL tradition of the team standing while the flag waves and the national anthem plays, I can't think of what else the flag and anthem are supposed to stand for if not the American ideal.

    Roxxsmom - I see a huge difference in logic between, say, a woman in Iran refusing to display a similar show of respect to her country's flag in protest of discrimination against women, and Karpernick's towards the American flag and anthem.

    Rugcat - good God, this could be the last time I ever agree 100% with one of your posts, so I want to call it out. Yeah, poor Alex Smith.

  20. #20
    Scribe of the girls in the basement Marissa D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by William Haskins View Post
    good for him, as long as:


    • he doesn't whine about any sanctions that might be imposed for non-compliance with his employee contract (not sure if there would be or not), and
    • some of that 20 million he has in the bank has been dished out to good causes to back up his public posturing


    otherwise a millionaire sitting on his ass isn't really news.
    This. Especially the second point. Talk is cheap.

  21. #21
    Jambo Bwana
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    Quote Originally Posted by c.e.lawson View Post
    in the context of the NFL tradition of the team standing while the flag waves and the national anthem plays, I can't think of what else the flag and anthem are supposed to stand for if not the American ideal.
    Well I'm not really speaking to what the flag or the anthem are supposed to stand for. Just noting that people might have different feelings about it. Some people might feel that it's largely meaningless (that's how I feel, personally). Others might feel uncomfortable with displays of nationalism. Others might even go further and say it symbolizes something actually negative. So I don't see much substance in criticizing Kaepernick on so-called logical grounds, since I'm not sure he would even accept your premise.

    I thought Rugcat's angle was much more damning. A political protest can certainly seem to be shallower than it would otherwise seem, depending on the who.
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  22. #22
    All Living is Local Don's Avatar
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    Even RomComs1 have managed to get this one right.

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  23. #23
    Jambo Bwana
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don View Post
    Even RomComs1 have managed to get this one right.

    America isn't easy. America is advanced citizenship. You've gotta want it bad, 'cause it's gonna put up a fight. It's gonna say, 'You want free speech? Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who's standing center stage and advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours.' You want to claim this land as the land of the free? Then the symbol of your country cannot just be a flag. The symbol also has to be one of its citizens exercising his right to burn that flag in protest. Now show me that, defend that, celebrate that in your classrooms. Then, you can stand up and sing about the land of the free.

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    You should send that to Hillary.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Wolfe View Post
    You should send that to Hillary.
    She already knows.

    Meanwhile, I don't see how folding the flag into Gessler's hat improves America.

  25. #25
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    I'm pretty meh on this one.
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