Having another one of those Identity crisis episodes...How to cope?

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Latina Bunny

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If you'd ever sat around the dinner table with my family when we're having steak or a roast beef, you'd understand why. And even with a less, um, carnivorous meal in front of us, our dinner-table conversations tend to get really strange. The workings of our digestive systems are among the least disturbing topics that tend to come up.

Was the German poo thing one of those "disturbing"/"strange" topics, lol? XD
 

Lillith1991

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Add me to the list of people who has felt that feeling of being on the outside of their heritage at different points in their life. I blame it on my ancestors, all that screwing people of other groups and eventually producing me. :tongue

But I also like it at times, too. My hair properties alone feel like a mini UN of traits, which is cool.
 

Latina Bunny

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My hair properties alone feel like a mini UN of traits, which is cool.

Lol! XD

My mother always says that my hair is a sign of la raza (translated as the race in English).

Ah, speaking about the complexity and confusion of race and heritage....

You know, believe it or not, I usually don't call myself Latina/Latino offline irl much.

If you were to meet me in person, and if you were to ask me, I would usually refer to myself as a "Hispanic American", or just "I'm Hispanic", depending on how the question is phrased.

I rarely label myself as Latino American or Latina unless it's specified like that in a question towards me.

This is because the Puerto Rican people I personally know, including my family, usually tend to associate the label Hispanic with Puerto Ricans or with Americans whose heritage is Puerto Rican.

However, it gets confusing because my parents have nonfiction books that uses the label Latinos.

My mother is one of those people who usually tends to associate the Latino label more with people from Latin America, so she usually uses the Hispanic label over Latino/Latina.

Then, in general, there are many people who use the terms interchangeably, unless they're specifying a specific place.

Of course, people can specify (ie. Puerto Rican; Mexican; etc), too.

However, some people see Latino American as excluding people from Spain, while Hispanic label excludes Brazilians (or something like that?), and so on...

Confused? Well, now you know how I feel, lol! :p

So, yeah, the majority of the time I usually call myself Hispanic American, especially in offline life. :)
 
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debergerac

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I blame American culture. It's insidious and violent in how it forces other cultures to assimilate and conform or die. We're happy to shout about diversity as long as you look just like everybody else. Parents who want the best for their children often grow up knowing this and internalizing that "best=white".

Yes.
 

debergerac

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While I totally get the history and accept this sentiment, I don't think it's just American pressures I'm dealing with.

In my situation, I'm dealing more with similar "conforming" pressures from my own kind (other Hispanic and Latino people). ^_^;; My family get all sorts of judgments from other Latino/Hispanic families for being too "American" or not being "true/real" Hispanic/Latinos, whatever that means.

It feels very frustrating. It's like I can only be one type of diversity and I have to fit entirely into that box.

There's this tv cooking competition show called Food Network Stars, and there is sometimes the one token "Latina" (and other cultures) in almost each season, I swear. And they seem required to have this heavy (over-done) accent, and over the top fake behavior to show they're Latina or something in order to be on this show, it feels like. Whenever they cook something that's not Latino/Hispanic, or whenever they don't talk "enough" about the Latina/Hispanic perspective/experience/background for every dish they cook, they are then scolded by the judges for not showing "enough" of their culture. >_<;; Everything about the whole thing feels like an exaggerated stereotype or caricature of what a "real" Latina is like.

Sorry, just something that's also been bugging me lately that's kind of identity-related. :p

My struggles with race/culture were similar. More like, my struggle with other people's struggle with my race/culture was similar. Though quite dark, I was teased for not being 'black enough' because of my musical tastes. As a kid I was outraged by the...and yes I was the kind of kid who used words like 'outrage'...people who thought The Cosby Show wrong, because it didn't reflect Black life. Well guess what? It was a reflection of my life.

Eventually I learned to embrace all aspects of myself, the privilege, the nerdiness, the aesthetic beauty of my skin and my kinky, coily hair, the intellect, the arrogance, the introversion and on and on. When necessary I manage those who have issues surrounding my Blackness or how I live it, but I choose not to allow their expectations to manage me.
 

Latina Bunny

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My struggles with race/culture were similar. More like, my struggle with other people's struggle with my race/culture was similar. Though quite dark, I was teased for not being 'black enough' because of my musical tastes. As a kid I was outraged by the...and yes I was the kind of kid who used words like 'outrage'...people who thought The Cosby Show wrong, because it didn't reflect Black life. Well guess what? It was a reflection of my life.

Eventually I learned to embrace all aspects of myself, the privilege, the nerdiness, the aesthetic beauty of my skin and my kinky, coily hair, the intellect, the arrogance, the introversion and on and on. When necessary I manage those who have issues surrounding my Blackness or how I live it, but I choose not to allow their expectations to manage me.

Oh, yes. That must be soo frustrating for you. :(

(I've heard something similar said of Obama waaaay back when he was running for nomination.)

It is very frustrating to feel that one can't be "enough" to "fit" in a particular category box that people wish for you to fit in.

I think sometimes some people don't realize that the diverse world is not always going to be in some neat boxes, but more a messy mix of colorful balls scattered around in a ball pit, lol. (Terrible, terrible analogy, I know. Hey, at least it's not the cliche salad bowl or mixing pot analogies. XD )

Thank you for sharing your own experience and the awesome words, debergerac. :) It's a lesson I have to reinforce mentally in my brain again and again whenever doubt creeps in. This thread helped so much in dealing with these doubts. :)
 

Lillith1991

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My struggles with race/culture were similar. More like, my struggle with other people's struggle with my race/culture was similar. Though quite dark, I was teased for not being 'black enough' because of my musical tastes. As a kid I was outraged by the...and yes I was the kind of kid who used words like 'outrage'...people who thought The Cosby Show wrong, because it didn't reflect Black life. Well guess what? It was a reflection of my life.

Eventually I learned to embrace all aspects of myself, the privilege, the nerdiness, the aesthetic beauty of my skin and my kinky, coily hair, the intellect, the arrogance, the introversion and on and on. When necessary I manage those who have issues surrounding my Blackness or how I live it, but I choose not to allow their expectations to manage me.

Imagine being what is essentially mulatto because one of your parents is mostly black and the other mostly white, and prefering Nightwish, HIM, and other rock or metal bands and dressing goth. That wasn't exactly fun. Especially when said fellow black people looked at you weird for preferring early rap or Jazz and Blues on top of the metal.
 

morngnstar

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You could just be an American. Plenty of us Americans have no other particular "origin" to identify with. I could say I'm Welsh, because of my last name, but then my mother's maiden name and my grandmothers' maiden names are English and / or Scottish. And I actually know of no ancestors who ever actually lived in those countries.

Or you could just be a person.

And once upon a time I thought "identity" meant what was unique about you - you know as in "identify", something you can do by someone's unique fingerprints - not what group you belong to.
 

Lillith1991

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You could just be an American. Plenty of us Americans have no other particular "origin" to identify with. I could say I'm Welsh, because of my last name, but then my mother's maiden name and my grandmothers' maiden names are English and / or Scottish. And I actually know of no ancestors who ever actually lived in those countries.

Or you could just be a person.

And once upon a time I thought "identity" meant what was unique about you - you know as in "identify", something you can do by someone's unique fingerprints - not what group you belong to.

I'm not sure you realize how potentially offensive it is to suggest what you're suggesting, particularly concerning saying it to someone who is a POC. I can't speak for other people in the thread, but I'm proud to be mulatto. I would never want to identify as just American, despite my love of my nation. It would, to me, be disrespectful and inaccurate. I know where most of my family heritage is from is from and when. I have an actual connection to my heritage that was instilled in me growing up, whether I choose to identify as any particular aspect that of said heritage that isn't obvious to others because of my skin and hair on a day to day basis or not.

Furthermore, Bunny's experience as a Latina is very common among those whose parents raised them in a heavily Americanized setting, or who were raised outside of the Hispanic/Latin community. Not to mention among mixed-race people in this nation in general.
 
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kuwisdelu

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And once upon a time I thought "identity" meant what was unique about you - you know as in "identify", something you can do by someone's unique fingerprints - not what group you belong to.

My identity is covered in the fingerprints of my ancestors. I am made of their bones and their blood and their songs and their prayers. They are engraved into my DNA in a unique double helix of pain and strength. I am uniquely Native American. But I am not alone, and my uniqueness is shaped by the history of how I came to be here, as I am, and that of my grandmothers and grandfathers who came before me.

Don't tell me my identity is not unique just because it is shared.

Who are you to do that?

Why are you here?
 

Lillith1991

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My identity is covered in the fingerprints of my ancestors. I am made of their bones and their blood and their songs and their prayers. They are engraved into my DNA in a unique double helix of pain and strength. I am uniquely Native American. But I am not alone, and my uniqueness is shaped by the history of how I came to be here, as I am, and that of my grandmothers and grandfathers who came before me.

Don't tell me my identity is not unique just because it is shared.

Who are you to do that?

Why are you here?

Everything here! Everything!

When coming from a place where you don't give a rats ass where your ancestors where from, you're talking from a place of privilage. The majority of POC, whether visibly POC or not don't have such a luxury if we want to respect the history of our ancestors in this nation. It is a matter of respecting them and respecting ourselves.
 

morngnstar

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I'm not saying she has to identify as American, just that she has that option. She seemed to not want to be like one particular person who identifies as Latina. I'm saying you don't have to be like anyone. Be like yourself.
 

debergerac

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You could just be an American. Plenty of us Americans have no other particular "origin" to identify with. I could say I'm Welsh, because of my last name, but then my mother's maiden name and my grandmothers' maiden names are English and / or Scottish. And I actually know of no ancestors who ever actually lived in those countries.

Or you could just be a person.

And once upon a time I thought "identity" meant what was unique about you - you know as in "identify", something you can do by someone's unique fingerprints - not what group you belong to.

your comment brought to mind the words of W.E.B du Bois from "The Souls of Black Folk". It makes great reading for anyone who has felt 'othered' in some sense, for anyone who seeks to understand that feeling, or for anyone who enjoys great writing. It's available at project Gutenberg:
"After the Egyptian and Indian, the Greek and Roman, the Teuton and Mongolian, the Negro is a sort of seventh son, born with a veil, and gifted with second-sight in this American world,—a world which yields him no true self-consciousness, but only lets him see himself through the revelation of the other world. It is a peculiar sensation, this double-consciousness, this sense of always looking at one's self through the eyes of others, of measuring one's soul by the tape of a world that looks on in amused contempt and pity. One ever feels his twoness,—an American, a Negro; two souls, two thoughts, two unreconciled strivings; two warring ideals in one dark body, whose dogged strength alone keeps it from being torn asunder. The history of the American Negro is the history of this strife,—this longing to attain self-conscious manhood, to merge his double self into a better and truer self. In this merging he wishes neither of the older selves to be lost. He would not Africanize America, for America has too much to teach the world and Africa. He would not bleach his Negro soul in a flood of white Americanism, for he knows that Negro blood has a message for the world."
 
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Lillith1991

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I'm not saying she has to identify as American, just that she has that option. She seemed to not want to be like one particular person who identifies as Latina. I'm saying you don't have to be like anyone. Be like yourself.

We're writers. How things are wordered is just as important as what we mean by our words.

Bunny has said numberous times that she is Latina, that's how she idenifies. There's really no way, despite the discomfort caused by her americanized upbringing, that insisting she could just idenify as American if she wanted to do that instead would not come across as offensive in light of that. And futher more, your words tend to only be true for a particular subset of White Americans. The ones who have spent centuries mixing their whatever ancestry until there's no point claiming any specific part of it. Irish Americans, Greek Americans, Italian Americans and various other such groups overwhelmingly identify with their roots.
 

Latina Bunny

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I'm not saying she has to identify as American, just that she has that option. She seemed to not want to be like one particular person who identifies as Latina. I'm saying you don't have to be like anyone. Be like yourself.

To be fair to morngstar, this is kind of how I used to try to think, but now I think somewhat differently, but still similar, if that makes sense?

I do understand how this attitude ("Be yourself") can be both helpful and hurtful.

When I was younger, especially as a teen, I used to reject my Latina side because it hurt me to be stuck between two worlds: the world of mis padres, mis abuelos, mis bisabuelos, and past ancestors, and then there's the other world that my parents and I have grown up in and have grown to love.

However, over time, as I became an adult (and after this lovely thread), I realized that it's okay to love both worlds, and I can still be me.

This is the thing: I am an American. That is definitely true! I am pretty accustomed to many things Americana. ;)

However, I am accepting that I am not "just" an American, but a Latino American, to be exact. :)

I was born in Puerto Rico, and my parents, my grandparents, my great-grand parents, and who knows what other ancestors before them, were all Puerto Rican. My parents raised me with some traditions and pop culture from Puerto Rico.

I may have not lived long on that island (only visited after toddler years), but...It is still in my blood, and it is in my past. It is my heritage.

I can't ignore all that. It feels very disrespectful to my ancestors and my parents to reject this heritage. It doesn't feel right to just dismiss and erase all of that rich history, traditions, and entire culture.

I want to be proud of what I am now, but I also want to be proud of all aspects of me.

When I hang around with our family and family friends who are Latino, I sometimes feel some kind of kinship.

Sometimes, I do feel some rejection or hurt and confusion when some Latinos judge my Latina heritage based on my lack of Spanish language, or not being "Hispanic enough", etc.

However, there are many other times with other Latino people where I feel comfortable and welcomed, and feel right at home.

It's a very conflicting feeling, and this thread shows that I am not alone in feeling this kind of identity crisis.

In terms of dna, I can probably, sort of "pass" as White. Maybe.

But my golden-brown skin (which can get pretty dark brown in the sun), eyes, and sometimes wild/frizzy raza hair can sometimes give me away. I cannot escape from that.

My ancestors' blood are in me, and it feels right to try to respect my the past heritage.

I still don't understand how some American citizens can feel no connection to their origin/heritage, or even to their state location or home locations, or something similar. (I do feel some envy for that kind of attitude, though. I tried adopting such an attitude, but it didn't feel right for me.)

For me, I need a sense of "connection" to where I was born and also where I was raised and where I am settled down. It's like I need a connection to both my past and present, and to both of my home lands, the birth island, and whichever state (or states) I am growing up in. I need that sense of history, connection, sense of belonging, and pride.

I don't know if this makes any sense, but I cannot just say I'm "just an American" and try to reject all Hispanic aspects of me, when they are part of me.

Yes, I am me. But, part of me is Latina. The other is American. I want to embrace all aspects of me. This thread helped me realize that I am not alone in my mixed feelings, and that I can be happy to be myself, and that I am still a unique person who can be proud of all parts of herself and feel good about herself, regardless of the mixed feelings and judgements.

Er, that probably sounds stupid and cheesy, but it's a hard thing to explain. ^_^;;

I think Kuwi and Lillith explain it much better. :)
 
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