Looking for suggestions, first person POV problem

LucidCrux said:

...The problem is that I am writing a character who is immature for his age but from a first person perspective....

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You have to get in the character's head. I'm not saying I've been successful yet, I only have one published short story and a novel that is almost finished. But for my novel which is first person, I take walks in the wooded park in my backyard and talk to myself as the character, with the other characters replying. I talk out loud, no one notices. It works.

Author's have different techniques so I'm not saying there is one right way to do it. But that's the one that works for me.

What age? Why did you choose this character for your POV?

LucidCrux said:

Does anyone know of first person books or shorts that do something like this succesfully, or have any suggestions that might help address it? I feel there are probably other cases where this could occur, like someone with a learning disability, or brain damaged, or a prodigy. I don't know if the issue in reverse would be there or not, but I know I've seen older people writing kids plenty of times as examples of what doesn't work in that case.

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So are you saying you're having trouble getting into the voice of a child at all, or that you're having trouble getting your readers to buy into the voice of a character who is young for his years in some respect?

Consistency may be an issue, though of course any child can fluctuate between being pretty mature or knowledgeable and being more immature or innocent. Framing may be another problem. If your character's immaturity is one of his defining traits, you need to get that across to the reader, or at least provide hints that this is the case (the way people treat him might be a good indicator).

Some suggestions. Hmmm.

If you haven't read Flowers For Algernon, I'd suggest it. It's narrated in first person (journal entries, if I remember right), and the adult pov character's level of mental ability changes markedly throughout the story.

Another story with a somewhat unreliable first-person narrator who is alternatively wise for his years and impossibly naive is Twain's Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.

Elizabeth Moon's Speed of Dark has an autistic pov character. He's an adult, and very smart, but his condition does affect his voice.

There's also The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Nighttime, by Mark Haddon. The pov character is a 15-year-old boy with Asperger's.

If you're looking for tips writing from a kid or teen's pov in general, there are probably blogs and recommended lists that people toss out, books they think do a good (or not so great) job of it. Depending on the age of your protagonist, popular and award winning books written for mid grade and YA audiences are always a good bet, at least to get an idea how kids of a certain age might sound or perceive things. Though reading well-reviewed books with juvenile protagonists that are written for adults is important too.

A couple of suggestions for reading material:

Regina's Song by David Eddings.
Odd Thomas by Dean Koontz.

Both are first person POV and have innocent/immature-sounding narrators.

I'd also like to recommend a trip to the bookshop or library, because suggestions based on a couple of forum posts can only go so far. You need to sit in the YA section (if YA is what you want - otherwise look in the adult section) and skim through the shelves until you've found a nice little stack of books that achieve all or part of the effect you're going for. Think about it like choosing textbooks as much as just looking for things you'd like to read. This one has the right kind of voice, that one is set in a similar place, this other one deals with similar themes, the descriptions in that other one are just perfect, etc. Then take the time to pick them apart and figure out exactly what they're doing that made you pick them as examples of things you want in your work.

One cheat is the POV character to be reminiscing about the described events ("little did I know back then" and such). This way he acquires a limited hindsight omniscience, and can comment on stuff even as he describes it happening. That way he himself can point out the disconnect and thus make it legitimate for readers.

The other way is to slip in close to the opening someone telling him how infantile he is and him agreeing or disagreeing or ignoring it or what have you--as long as the disconnect between outer age and inner life/behavior has been verbalized by anyone, as this will make it legitimate for readers.

And lastly--filter the feedback from criticisms. Keep in mind what seems useful, but reject stuff which obviously isn't. And most of it tends to be not useful, because it deals with only a few pages taken out of context, which by default eliminates the usefulness of almost everything except grammar, punctuation, scene structure and pacing, and hook or lack of thereof feedback. Beyond this the best people can do is recommend authors which seem to them similar in some way, so that you can see how they pull off whatever it is you're trying to.

I support Siana's Odd Thomas recommendation--a good example how 1st person POV naivete plus sudden insights plus bursts of purple prose work out great.

LucidCrux said:

Thanks for the suggestions so far, that's probably a good start. I have some reading to do.

I think the problem here (among others) is that I make him sound like a kid, but that I am often making him sound like too young a kid. Basically, some people thinks he sounds 12ish (varies) but he is a senior in high school. I show both things, but people go, "nope, this guy doesn't sound like a senior, sorry."

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It is tricky, because even if his cognitive maturity or ability is closer to a 12-year-old's in some ways, he's not 12, and there will be some differences because of where he probably would be hormonally (much further into puberty) and experience.

Mentally disabled adults (or near adults) can be childlike in some ways, but they're not just children in adult bodies. This is probably something that's hard to get right without personal experience.

I'm wondering if this is a situation where it might help to actually meet or talk to some kids who are in the same situation as you envision for your protagonist. If you don't have the means to do this, maybe finding some educational literature and/or videos featuring kids with developmental disabilities?

Also, re crits, are all of them in agreement about this, or is just a couple people who think the voice isn't right for the character's age and situation? And why do they think so? Not everyone is coming to critiquing with the same experience and knowledge.

When people are critting your work, do they know what you're aiming at before you start? Granted that when it comes to the finished piece of work, you have to convey that right from the start, but there is a little leeway in terms of the blurb and cover. Will that say/imply the character's immature from his age? When I read Flowers for Algernon (an excellent suggestion for relevant reading matter) I read on the blurb that he was mentally handicapped, so knew before I started reading. I don't think it's a good idea to rely on this though. I think Flowers for Algernon would have stood up on its own without the blurb.

The reason I'm suggesting giving critters foreknowledge of what you're aiming at is because I find it really helps when critting to know what the writer's aiming at. If it's working, I don't need to know this because it's obvious, but when something's not working, it helps a lot. It could very well be, for example, that people are saying "your character's reactions don't fit with their age" as a criticism without knowing what you're aiming at, but if they knew what you were aiming at they might be saying "his immaturity comes across well here and here, but in this part, it doesn't and it's confusing the reader," or something. It may be the case that you're not doing enough to make him come across as immature, or you're being inconsistent somewhere. There's nothing wrong with telling critters what you're aiming at. If it's a last draft, about to be sent to agents kind of thing, then don't do it because you can't tell agents "this is what I'm aiming for" because it has to come across right. But in earlier drafts or for newer writers, then do tell people what you're aiming at so they can give crits that move you in the right direction.

Hope that helps.

I had a similar issue with my first male MC POV - all my others had been female. So I asked men - what do you think about in the morning? What's your reaction to this? How would you feel if that happened? See if you can find someone the age your MC is and ask them some questions. It may help you get into their head and then translate that into the page.

Me too! I've had a character (fantasy) who ages/develops slowly and has the knowledge of a twenty-seven-year-old with a mentality of a twelve-year-old.

I think the key is to embrace it. Make it fun! Introduce this character trait right off the bat, with a recognizable high school scenario, and highlight this jarring juxtaposition. Make it clear this is intentional. Perhaps even prioritize this characteristic.

Dostoevsky has been blamed by his contemporaries for not developing properly his characters (see Brothers Karamazov). If you visit departments of philosophy and psychology today, you will see that Dostoevsky is one of the very few artists/writers those departments take any interest in (though readers still give to other writers credits for being "good psychologists" or "good thinkers"). The text is very important, but sometimes things that look wrong in the text, may imply correct things for the subtext.

Anyway, without reading the whole novel I can't suggest anything about your characters

You know it just occurred to me that the film Labyrinth is another good example of the teenager caught up in childish fantasies that you might be going for. They had the advantage of an actress so you could more clearly tell the character's age, but Sarah speaks in the stylized fashion I think you might be after for your MC, based on the excerpt you posted. Might be another good reference point

Roxxsmom said:

There's also The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Nighttime, by Mark Haddon. The pov character is a 15-year-old boy with Asperger's.

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As soon as I read the original post, this is the book that came to mind. The narrator is intelligent, but emotionally immature and makes some very questionable choices, and comes to conclusions an adult would never have reached. It's also a very good book in general.

LucidCrux said:

Also, it's not intended to be a cognitive issue, more an emotional and playful issue born of an isolated upbringing. Think of that childish guy around the office that still pulls stupid pranks, wants to talk about anime and have food fights, and who everyone says needs to grow up... but who still does his job, can conduct himself in a meeting with no problems, and can be counted on when it really matters.

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Bear in mind that I haven't read your work, but I think it's possible to portray a character as immature through his actions without making all of his thoughts and perspectives seem overly childish. You could use his descriptions of events to help set his age, but let his immediate thoughts and dialogue with others show that he's a little goofy and off-beat. Maybe something like "I told my boss that the train was running late. He would never know that I was binge-watching Naruto instead of working on my presentation for the meeting."