Getting an agent/book deal before the book is written - what if you're famous?

Galumph_Triumph said:

I might be on the precipice of actually selling more than a thousand copies of each book. So I wanted to explore my best options.

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Brutally honest answer?

1,000 copies of a self-published novel isn't going to turn an agent's head based on numbers.

http://jetreidliterary.blogspot.com/2013/12/question-about-that-self-publishing.html

2. Sales figures. If you sold a lot, and I mean 20,000 copies within a year or less, you've got a reasonable shot of getting some attention.

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(That "or less" is in reference to the time frame, not the numbers.)

1000 copies is good. There's no way to say it's not. It's a solid self-published run, and if you're getting consistent numbers, then that number will likely rise. It's just not the level of sales that an agent or publisher will look at and think "Wow, I need this book!" If you've got "tens of thousands" asking for your book, your numbers should be higher. Your numbers have to play out per book, per video, etc, not cumulatively.

Those "Reads" counts can be deceptive, too - depending on the program used for the site in question. I had fanfiction that racked up millions of reads on a regular basis. Did that mean I had millions of readers? No. It meant that every page turn counted as a read. Every reread page counted as a read. 10 people reading a 200 page story = 2000 reads.

And if your stuff's being picked up and reposted to multiple sites, you've got the issue of not controlling who can see your stuff for free, even if it's picked up. How are you going to take down material not under your control?

Now for the GOOD news:

By the time you're done converting several shorts into a novel, the finished product likely won't resemble the original. This is a good thing.

When you're done - and you absolutely have to be done first - you can include your online numbers in your query. Not the sales numbers. They'll likely find those when they google you - which they will. Your view counts, hit counts, subscriber numbers, etc. will mean a lot more then and there.

The movie deal *might* help you, it might not. It depends on the company in question, the terms, and the interest in the film once the deal's done.

(Expect to get a lot more messages from folks in China and Romania about "interacting" with you. Both are huge piracy havens, especially for books not commercially available in their markets.)

Curlz said:

Think of "The Martian", it only came out as a book after the movie went large. As a book, "The Martian" was not publication quality on its own, it sells because of the movie, not the other way around..

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Huh? You might want to check your facts on that one.

The Martian movie-tie-in edition came out in anticipation of the film. It had to be in production for months before that time. It was HIGHLY popular before the film.

Curlz said:

Think of "The Martian", it only came out as a book after the movie went large.

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Nitpick: Weir self-published The Martian in 2011. It did so well that a publisher picked up audio rights in 2013, around the same time that the book was optioned for a movie. Crown Publishing acquired print rights in 2014, and the movie came out in 2015.

mrsmig said:

Is there an echo in here?

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Hee. This is what I get for opening a tab and forgetting to refresh the page.

Galumph_Triumph, I wish you very good luck with your decisions for this particular story and for future stories. I think the attention it got speaks well of your premise and your storytelling.

Spending some time in the No Sleep subreddit has gotten me thinking about the differences between audience expectations there, and audience expectations of books. Part of the appeal of the No Sleep stories seems to be the conceit that each story is (purported to be) true, is being told by a "regular person" (not a professional author), and, in the case of your story, for example, unfolding in real time. Because of your participation in the comments as the story was being written, and because of the suggestions and interactions there seeming to influence "your" actions in the next installments, the audience there had a participatory experience different from what they'll have with a book of the same story. A book will have to compensate with different advantages, and adapt the story for the different medium. I imagine you've realized this already, which is why you don't yet consider your book written. I'm just thinking out loud as I make the realizations myself--it's interesting!

This adds up to me thinking that the success (presented specifically and without hyperbole) of your online serial will be an interesting detail in a query letter in terms of the appeal of your premise and your skill with suspense, but that the real selling point will be, as usual, the manuscript itself. If the film interest is reputable and serious, and pressing, perhaps you can query with a polished first three chapters, something like that. How long do you think it will take for you to adapt the whole thing?

In general, looking at what appears to be interest online and predicting or even enabling sales from it is... tricky.

I did a giveaway for my self-published short story collection through Goodreads. They have a little box when you enter the giveaway that you can tick that adds the book to the Goodread "want to read" list for each person. Number of folks who appeared to indicate they wanted to read my book? 103. Number of folks who bought a copy? 0.

Talk is, unfortunately, cheap. A lot of folks will be enthusiastic about material that is free. They will say things like "I wish this were a book," and follow you online looking for other giveaways or free content, but when you make the content available to purchase... suddenly they remember they've already read it. Or maybe they just think it's too expensive (especially compared to getting content from you for free before). But it's rare for those likes and follows and messages to translate into an equal number of sales.

It doesn't mean it can't happen, and I wish the OP the best of luck with this venture. But the real test of a platform is what happens when you stop offering content for free and ask folks to pay for it.

eqb said:

Nitpick: Weir self-published The Martian in 2011. It did so well that a publisher picked up audio rights in 2013, around the same time that the book was optioned for a movie. Crown Publishing acquired print rights in 2014, and the movie came out in 2015.

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For some reason I had it in my head that he sold the ebook rights. I am delighted for him that he didn't.

Galumph_Triumph said:

I
Regarding the few comments about publication quality, I should have mentioned this before: NoSleep, the particular subreddit on Reddit.com where the story took hold, is actually a roleplaying forum.

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In this case, check and double check what the TOS of the site says about ownership of what's being posted. Is it solely yours? Does it belong to the site? Do you share ownership/copyright with any other participants in the RP?

Cyia makes an important point. You might not be able to sell these works. Many sites take copyright of everything posted on them. Do check.

Galumph_Triumph said:

I'm sorry that I can't respond to all the comments because I often have to do this on my phone (new computer coming soon...) but I've taken the advice here to heart and I'm going to continue down the route of self-publishing. One person PM'd me with some advice that I found really insightful: I should self-publish this one because I've already got a platform for it, and if it turns out that said platform is bigger or as big as anticipated, then that will be a huge selling point for an agent on future works.

So in short, I'm going for that!

Regarding the few comments about publication quality, I should have mentioned this before: NoSleep, the particular subreddit on Reddit.com where the story took hold, is actually a roleplaying forum. The only rule is that everything must appear, and be treated, as true. Therefore, stories submitted are often written in a lazy, non-literary style, which is the style I explored in that story series. I sort of intended it to read as though it were written by someone without much storytelling experience. However, I'm going to actually stick with that style for the book, just with grammatical and flow improvements, because it was actually better received than some other stories I'd submitted in the past that were more literary attempts.

Thank you all very much for the advice, I really appreciate it. And I'll keep you updated.

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Congratulations Galumph, and your PM gave just the advice I would. With the possible exception of also asking, how you feel about publishing it as an ebook? I've seen writers have great success going that route. The problem, in my view, as a reader who has followed series' from online installments, to ebook, to major publishing house; is...wait, actually there are a couple of things. I remember reading the ebook of a series which found a major publisher as a result of the popularity of the first book.

First, it took two and a half years to get the final installment of the book; by which time, my enthusiasm had waned a bit. And B) the finished product of the final novel was slicker, safer and more formulaic than the author's previous efforts. If I could have told that writer what I wish had happened. I would have told them to e-pub all the way. Answer the door to publishers after the complete series is finished and let them buy the full deal then.