Too many PoC or not enough?

kuwisdelu said:

I guess I didn't realize that most government forms actually don't have a Latino/Latina option under ethnicity after the Hispanic question. That is genuinely weird to me.

But it's certainly not the only way government forms are illogical and inflexible.

You're PoC (IMO). Blame the government for forcing you into a different checkbox.

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Yeah, government papers (and demographics papers you sign at other types of places) can be a bit confusing sometimes when it comes to this stuff. >_< My family gets so stumped on this category, lol.

I haven't filled a government paper recently, so they might have changed some things (I hope).

This wikipedia page is confusing, too:

According to the 2010 United States Census, 36.7% of Hispanic/Latino Americans identify as "some other race" as these Hispanic/Latinos may feel the U.S. census does not describe their European or American Indian ancestry as they understand it to be.[59

Half of the Hispanic/Latino population in the United States self-identifies as white. Most of the multi-racial population in the Mexican, Salvadoran, and Guatemalan communities are of European and Native American ancestry (Mestizo), while most of the multiracial population in the Puerto Rican, Dominican, and Cuban communities are of European and African ancestry (Mulatto).

Preference of use between the terms among Hispanics and Latinos in the United States often depends on where persons reside. Those in the Eastern United States tend to prefer the term Hispanic, whereas those in the West tend to prefer Latino.[13] Both terms refer to ethnicity, as a person of Latino or Hispanic origin can be of any race.[14][42]

Hispanics and Latinos are racially diverse...

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(It also goes into the ancestral demographics of Puerto Rico, which has a mix of different ancestries, like European, African, and Indian, and inter-mixed ancestry.)

So for me, it gets confusing on where Latinos and Hispanics fit in this kind of POC discussions. We're made up of so many groups, and self-identify in different ways. I don't want to dismiss one group, when I know that we are so diverse.

I'm not sure how accurate New York Times is, but it mentions the weird self-identifying issue on the Census as well (2014 article):

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/05/22/upshot/more-hispanics-declaring-themselves-white.html

Race is an immutable characteristic for many white, black and Asian-Americans. It is less clear for Americans of Hispanic origin. The census form asks two questions about race and ethnicity: one about whether individuals are of Hispanic or Latino origin, and another about race. “Hispanics” do not constitute a race, according to the census, and so 37 percent of Hispanics, presumably dissatisfied with options like “white” or “black,” selected “some other race.”

Hispanics are often described as driving up the nonwhite share of the population. But a new study of census forms finds that more Hispanics are identifying as white.

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And a long Pew study, which also mentions some of the above stuff:
http://www.pewhispanic.org/2012/04/04/when-labels-dont-fit-hispanics-and-their-views-of-identity/

So...yeah. XD That's why I get confused. I'm one of those who puts down "White" in these papers.

So when Kuwi talks about white or "white Hispanic", it confused me more and makes me feel...bad.

Latina Bunny said:

So when Kuwi talks about white or "white Hispanic", it confused me more and makes me feel...bad.

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I'm sorry I made you feel bad. It's the wording on the census that is the issue. Not you.

Latina Bunny said:

I'm not sure how accurate New York Times is, but it mentions the weird self-identifying issue on the Census as well (2014 article):

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/05/22/upshot/more-hispanics-declaring-themselves-white.html


And another article:
http://www.pewhispanic.org/2012/04/04/when-labels-dont-fit-hispanics-and-their-views-of-identity/

So...yeah. XD That's why I get confused. I'm one of those who puts down "White" in these papers.

So when Kuwi talks about white or "white Hispanic", it confused me more and makes me feel...bad.

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That's kinda why I'm suggesting that you consider how YOU want to identify, and whether the form in question needs to have that data, and what they'll do with it.

AW Admin said:

That's kinda why I'm suggesting that you consider how YOU want to identify, and whether the form in question needs to have that data, and what they'll do with it.

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Exactly.

Your options are not limited to what appears on a government form.

Your personal identity does not need to fit into formal checkboxes.

kuwisdelu said:

I'm sorry I made you feel bad. It's the wording on the census that is the issue. Not you.

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I'm sorry for my comment. I was being very emotional.

The whole "what's considered white, what's American, and what's Hispanic or Latino" thing is something of a huge trigger for me, and a source of angst for my PR family and PR (or any other Latino/Hispanic nationality) friends.

You know my whole deal with this "pure" identity stuff all my life, like my mother getting questioned and blamed whenever it's revealed that I don't speak Spanish, people saying that I can't call myself Latina or Hispanic (or even Puerto Rican) if I don't speak Spanish or like certain things or if I haven't grown up in that specific place, and so on, blah, blah.

Maybe this is because I live in a conservative part of Florida or hanging out with older people here, but I always feel I have to live up to some standards of being "real" Hispanic/Latino/Puerto Rican/whatever and dealing with some disappointment when I don't meet them...

Of course, you know how that feels, Kuwi! ^_^

I just don't like dismissing "white Hispanic" people as an entire group myself, because that was how I identified myself on the government and important papers for years, and I really don't want to exclude other Hispanic and Latino people for this "purity" standard they're not meeting or for not fitting the labels properly.

It doesn't feel right to me. >_<

After all, I am not the only Hispanic or Latino who may have also identified as "white" or that other people identify as white, etc.

AW Admin said:

That's kinda why I'm suggesting that you consider how YOU want to identify, and whether the form in question needs to have that data, and what they'll do with it.

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Yeah, I just have to be strong enough to deal with the occasional judgement from some other Latino people (usually when I say I don't speak much Spanish).

I really don't like it when people set standards of being a "real"/"true" [include group here], especially if said group is made up of different groups who are made up of subgroups, etc, etc...

First of all, here's a webcomic on the Latin/Hispanic division by Terry Blas.

Secondly, like Latina Bunny, I'm Latino and of white skin and like her, I've been confused if I count or not as PoC. I think the confusion arises because in the United States "White" is not just the color of your skin but also a very specific set of cultural signifiers derived from the Anglo-Saxon Protestants that founded the country but with time were preassured to include other European ethnicities. I mean, people tend to forget that Irish and Italian people were marginalized minorities until a couple of decades ago. When Kennedy became president people feared he would force upon the Catholic Church in the US, not unlike the fears they had with the unfounded rumor that Obama was a Muslim.

As Bunny point out, it's very common for our people to identify more with our country of origin (something I've noticed) than with an united identity. But that unity is there and it comes to play when needed.

kuwisdelu said:

Please feel free to slap me if I'm getting this wrong, since I know you are Latina and Hispanic, and I'm not, but I think you may be confusing white/non-white Hispanic and Latin@.

Latin@s are generally considered non-white, though one could certainly be white and Latina (like, say, a girl who's part Mexican and part Irish).

Hispanic just means coming from a Spanish-speaking country. White Hispanic usually means primarily European ancestry, such as Spain. Puerto Rican is generally non-white Hispanic. It's not based on the color of your skin. Latin@ means coming from a Latin American country, and generally means being a person of color regardless of actual skin tone.

Passing as white is not the same as being white or identifying as white.

Unless you have some European ancestry with which you identify of which I'm unaware, then I think you would be non-white Hispanic and Latina.

Conversely, my sister-in-law whose father was Spanish would be Hispanic but not Latina.

That's why the Hispanic checkbox is separate from the ethnicity checkbox. It's not an ethnicity, while Latin@ is.

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kuwisdelu said:

In terms of PoC representation and postcolonialism, the distinction is more important because Latin@s come from places colonized by white Hispanic invaders.

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As far as I can tell both are ethnicities. You can be any of them and being of any color. The difference, besides the connotations, is that one play up the language while the other play up the geography but both were born to create a sense of common identity between 20 or so countries above nationality and both labels carry a colonial element since Latino also implies an European heritage since it comes from countries that were colonized by people from Spain, Portugal and France that happened to arrive around the same area. Technically this means that Guyana isn't Latin American but Quebec is.

To complicate things further there's also iberoamericano (Iberian-American) that pretty much the only thing that does is add Brazil. Chávez noticed said and once actually proposed we should call our continent Indoamérica (Indian America) which the press pointed out was actually worse so he tried to use Nuestramérica (Our-America) but seems like he gave up and move on.

Although Hispanic has a stronger colonial connotation, both terms were pretty much used interexchangably during the first half of the 20th century to define when people from Latin America started to define who we are. The idea of a Latin American "race" and what's why Columbus Day is called "Race Day" in most Spanish-speaking countries.

Many groups made emphasis on the Spaniard origin but what resonated for most and lasted to this day is the "three races, one culture" idea. Which it isn't perfect, since more often than not it simply assimilates ancestries rather than celebrating them. I'm a fair-skinned Latino and instead of being regarded standing on the same ground that people of my country I get lots of "but where are you family from?", "You kinda look Portuguese" and so on and people of African and Indigenous ancestry get the short end of the stick. There's an on-going debate in Mexico about how Afro-Mexicans are shoved aside in represensation to white and indigenous Mexicans. Also, races aren't distributed equally across Latin America. I was surprised how over half of the population of Peru was very clearly indigenous. Meanwhile, white people in Argentina surpass 80% of the population.

Hispanic has fallen out of flavor, as far as I can tell, mostly because it excludes Brazil and a great deal of the Caribbean, which never had the best of relationships with Spanish-speaking countries. It seems that Hispanic was played up by people of Latin American descendence in the United States, especially Mexicans and Puerto Ricans, due to the complications pertaining the idea that race equals ethnicity. According to Wikipedia, Hispanic people were always listed as "White" iuntil a federal case in which a judge said three Mexican immigrants were illegible for citizenship for not being white enough. FDR's administration swept the affair under the rug in order to maintain good relationship with Latin America so they just defaulted them as white while local organizations played up the Spaniard angle.

But it's a very complicated ethnicity. You're your own thing but you're also told your roots are Spaniard, native and African. Plus, there are inmigrants. For example, there's a big Asian community in Peru and Ecuador, especially from China and Japan. Here in Venezuelan you have Syrian, Taiwanese, Hungarian, Italian and Portuguese. Some identify with the country, others not.

Samsonet said:

While we're talking about weird check boxes and forms, does anyone know why there are options specifically asking if you're Hispanic? Is it because the Hispanic/Latinx situation is so complicated?

It's weird to me because nobody asks if one is from a French-speaking or [insert language here]-speaking country. I think I'm missing something.

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Well, taking into account people from Latin America are the second biggest group in the United States, supassing African Americans in the last decade, it's understandable they want to keep control.

Thought about this detail topic, and I still feel upset, for some reason I can't explain.

I will continue to defend all Hispanics and Latinos from being excluded, even the so-called "white" ones. I despise exclusion like this, especially with such a fluid group terminology that's interchangeable, diverse with subgroups, and very personal/subjective.

I never liked the feeling of being judged on this purity BS aspect, so I refuse to judge other Hispanics and Latinos in this aspect as well.

(Yes, this topic can make me very moody.)

maxmordon said:

But it's a very complicated ethnicity. You're your own thing but you're also told your roots are Spaniard, native and African. Plus, there are inmigrants. For example, there's a big Asian community in Peru and Ecuador, especially from China and Japan. Here in Venezuelan you have Syrian, Taiwanese, Hungarian, Italian and Portuguese. Some identify with the country, others not.

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Yes, this! Thank you for understanding my dilemma! ^_^

(+Rep to your entire post, too)

And yes to the mix of roots. Puerto Rico's got a mix of the Spaniards, the native indigenous, and African roots.

And the thing you said about the Puerto Ricans in America using the term Hispanic is true, as that is what many of the American-Puerto Ricans I know use, including my family.

The identity thing can be so annoying.

Latina Bunny said:

Thought about this detail topic, and I still feel upset, for some reason I can't explain.

I will continue to defend all Hispanics and Latinos from being excluded, even the so-called "white" ones. I despise exclusion like this, especially with such a fluid group terminology that's interchangeable, diverse with subgroups, and very personal/subjective.

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I'm still confused.

What, precisely, do you feel people are being excluded from?

Are you talking about in this thread or in your personal life?

I would like to make this a little more complicated.

First of all, the right answer (if there is one) to the original question was given long ago. Let the story determine ethnicity and race, not some desire to be representative of the larger American culture or something. If you can do something worthwhile in the story by having one or some of the characters be culturally different from the others, then do it. Anyhow, if you don't explicitly say this character is Black, this one white, this one Asian, this one Latino/Latina, won't the reader just identify with the character and think the character is just like him or her?

When I look at forms that have a question about what group you belong to, I see three options that get used. One is to ask what is your race. Another is to ask what is your ethnicity. The third asks for both race and ethnicity. Many forms are now breaking down the Asian category into country of origin.

These categories make me feel utterly excluded, almost as much as the national holiday Christmas.

When the form focuses on ethnicity rather than race, I think (but I could be remembering wrong) there is still a category for white/Caucasian. I know that the "other" category isn't an option for me.

You see, my ethnicity is Jewish. Period. But ask most Americans, and they will tell you that Jewish is not an ethnicity. They will say that it's a religion. Any person of color, unless very enlightened, would laugh in my face if I talked about feeling like a minority or having a non-white ethnicity.

That being Jewish is considered a religion and not an ethnicity is an artifact of (come on, you can guess this one) the Holocaust. Either during WWII or following it (I can't recall the timing), the American council of rabbis discussed the issue. They decided that we Jews would be safer if Judaism was considered a religion and nothing more. Given the degree of antisemitism in the U.S. at that time, they probably made the right choice. Colleges and universities had quotas on how many Jews they would accept into their institutions each year. Jews were not welcome to live in various neighborhoods.

I find a certain amount of irony in the situation that you can argue about Latina/Latino vs. Hispanic vs. country of origin vs. indigenous vs. Native American vs. American Indian vs. what not. But most people would read this and say, "Marilyn, what in the world are you talking about?"

People of Color get to self-identify, but the world gets to tell me who and what I am. I am not allowed to self-identify.

Yet, I can't even be comfortably included in many feminist groups now because feminist women of color identify strongly with Palestinians, and, well, I'm a Jew so I'm on the wrong side of that fence.

You've got me coming and going. I am excluded no matter which way I turn.

There is a lot of pain here, more than enough to go around. Our Latina Bunny feels it keenly. Most of the time, the pain I carry doesn't surface until they start playing Christmas carols 24/7 all over the place and everyone wishes me a Merry Christmas. Then I can feel pretty alienated.

I'm going to have to look up why the government is so interested in this data. Pollsters, of course, are interested because companies believe that they have to market differently to different demographics.

My feeling is that we need to focus on what we have in common while celebrating what we bring that is unique. All of this putting people into groups is divisive. We don't need more divisiveness in the world. We need more harmony.

With respect for each of you.

kuwisdelu said:

I'm still confused.

What, precisely, do you feel people are being excluded from?

Are you talking about in this thread or in your personal life?

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Hmm... How to explain?

Okay, let me try this (WARNING--Super-long post ahead, sorry! XD ):

I usually label myself as Hispanic and/or Puerto Rican (depends on the question and who's asking). I am more on the lighter part of the skin tone spectrum. One of my sisters is even paler. Same with my grandma and great-grandma.

So, because the Puerto Ricans I know tend to associate skin color with race, it was suggested that my sister and I put White on the government papers for race, since Latino or Puerto Rican was never an option there (and I didn't know what Other meant).

So, for years, we considered ourselves as "white Hispanics" by government standards. We don't say "white" outside of census papers, but we do say Hispanic (or Puerto Rican).

Of course, because we don't speak Spanish, we get judged on whether or not we're really "real"/"true" Hispanics/Puerto Ricans. (I rarely heard Latino term used.)

My sister and I were always conflicted and hurt by such comments, even if they were said in a light teasing manner. My sister and I were sometimes jokingly (or maybe not in some cases?) referred to as "gringas". That's something like being a White American English speaker or "foreigner". Basically, we were put into a different category than Hispanic / "real" Puerto Ricans.

As you can guess, this made my pale-skinned (and autistic) sister feel very hurt and alienated from her heritage and other Latinos/Hispanics, so she continued to drift away from any Latino/Hispanic stuff and embraced White American and Japanese culture. (She's the anime fan I mentioned in the anime thread.)

This made me very mad, because she still feels that identify crisis to this day, and had even almost cried one day telling me that she hates the judgement of her pale skin color, her not speaking Spanish and being considered Americanized by other Latinos/Hispanics.

I myself have been going through something similar, but I was not judged as much because I could speak some sparse, random words of Spanish, and I enjoyed some bits of Hispanic/Latino culture.

But I still have the occasional identity crisis, people still question me, I still get the rare "gringa" comment, and I'm still very upset about my sister being judged.

This topic derail just made me think of this lifelong internal conflict, and I felt I had to be in a certain box (Latina vs Hispanic) and choose one identity (white or Latino).

The "white Hispanics are not POC" comment just reminded me of those judgement moments of deciding which box to choose, and I personally felt that Hispanics and Latinos were interchangeable terminology, so I didn't need to split into more boxes of POC Hispanics vs non-POC Hispanics, when I already identify as "white" Hispanic.

It just bothers me that some Hispanics are being considered and some are not. If we're splitting people up even more, then that's more boxes for me, and I don't want to split anymore.

Not fond of playing that Latino/Hispanic purity game. I would rather stick with the Americans who only identity as "American", intead, than play that game.

*PHEW!* Not sure if I'm making any sense, lol? ^_^;;

(I will continue to use Hispanic or Puerto Rican to describe myself in offline life, and Latina online. Maybe white, too, or Other, depending on my mood that day. Because I can choose my box however I want. )

Latina Bunny said:

This topic derail just made me think of this lifelong internal conflict, and I felt I had to be in a certain box (Latina vs Hispanic) and choose one identity (white or Latino).

The "white Hispanics are not POC" comment just reminded me of those judgement moments of deciding which box to choose, and I personally felt that Hispanics and Latinos were interchangeable terminology, so I didn't need to split into more boxes of POC Hispanics vs non-POC Hispanics, when I already identify as "white" Hispanic.

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I'm sorry I made you feel that way, and I'm sorry I made things more confusing for you when I asked for clarification.

Checkboxes on a government form do not define any of our identities, and our identities certainly shouldn't be limited to their severely circumscribed choices. My government forms still have the "male" box checked, but I certainly do not self-identify that way.

When I was younger, I would check both "Native American" and "White", because one of my parents is white, and so I'm part white, and I used to identify more with white America. I don't do that anymore, and that's a personal choice about how I self-identify. Even if I did still check the box for "White", that would not make me only white, or not a PoC.

I am not in any place to judge you or how you identify, except insofar as wanting to reassure you that your identity is valid, however you want to define it, whether that means being white or PoC, or both, or neither. And I want to respect how you identify personally, even if that's not the same as what you put on a government form.

It just bothers me that some Hispanics are being considered and some are not. If we're splitting people up even more, then that's more boxes for me, and I don't want to split anymore.

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Separate from you now, it's not necessarily a question of who I (or anyone else) would or would not consider PoC. The fact of the matter is I know some people who identify as Hispanic but are vehement that they white and not PoC. As you and max have said: it's complicated.

Yeah, it's complicated.

Hispanic and Latino are labels to catch a hodgepodge group of many subgroups, kind of like how LGBTQA or QUILTBAG labels are made up of various subgroups, who are made up of diverse people within those subgroups.

While there may be specific "definitions" or "qualifications" of what makes a specific group, when it comes to the inclusive umbrella term, it still all comes down to personal preference and cultural use (that can change over time and/or can depend on the region, etc).

Es muy complicado.

I have to wonder about all this being about collecting data in order to improve the lives of people or their children who are affected by income inequality. At the same time, Max points out that there is an issue related to control.

To me, it all looks like in-group, out-group stuff that we all need to get over.

But it also reminds me of this interesting thing about statistics. Some time in the 20th century, social scientists, educational researchers, assorted other folks, the government, and the media became enamored of averages. And normal; can't forget about normal. There is a problem with averages and "normal." They don't apply to individuals. I was working with this concept when I was finishing up writing I'm the Boss of Me.

In my research, I encountered this most interesting website:

http://lsi.gse.harvard.edu/individual-mastery

I think it supports the approach to self-identification that you are advocating.

I think it never hurts to ask yourself

Why are they asking?
What will they do with this information?
Do they need to know?

Many Americans, especially white Americans, still live and associate mainly with people of their own race, so an all (or mostly) white cast is hardly unrealistic. Neither is a cast made up mostly or entirely of people of any other race. But that doesn't mean writers can't or shouldn't consider the implications of this, or the world building* needed to make it plausible and to portray the consequences of such.

It's very common, though, for white writers in particular to unthinkingly cast all their stories in the white suburban landscapes (or even urban areas) they remember from their childhood or have been exposed endlessly via the media, even if such such places really aren't typical these days (and maybe never were). Many jokes have been made about the extremely white New York City occupied by characters in many sit coms. It's not so odd that someone's circle of close friends are all the same race, but it is strange that the world they moved in had so little diversity as well and that this is usually unexamined.

There are worse things, imo, than consciously trying to counter this. My only advice is to think about why your setting is the way it is, and to make sure that everyone is a fully fleshed, three-dimensional character. I tend to get glassy eyed when the characters in a story who aren't white or male or straight have nothing to distinguish them except being "the black guy," or "the gay man" or "the girlfriend," but the white, straight, male characters get to have real personalities and quirks not related directly to their identity as such.


*I feel that even stories set in the so-called "real" world entail a certain amount of world building, as the writer is always reflecting a particular version of what they believe to be real and normal.

If the thread-starter is writing in PoC for a specific reason, then yes, by all means, do it. If you wanted to do it simply because you felt the need to be inclusive, then I would suggest not to. As a PoC, I love reading a story with a character who is of the same race or ethnicity as me, but I really hate it when that character is in the story for no reason whatsoever other than diversity. It feels like the PoC character is completely redundant, simply included to fill a quota.

I agree with one of the posters above who has mentioned that the cast of characters needs to reflect the location where the story is being set. When I used to live in a couple of college towns, the diversity of those two places was awesome, but when I had moved to a different city, that particular place had a slightly larger proportion of PoC.

Gonna chime in because I've had the same fear but you really shouldn't care. Social circles are really diverse and anyone can end up anywhere, people travel a lot in the modern world. It only FEELS forced because historically we're used to the same old group of white friends with the one minority person. Do you!

NerdyNikkiFTW said:

But I'm also terrified of making them look like a group of Power Rangers. One black, one hispanic, one asian, one native american, and two white. That seems forced, you know?

What do you think?

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I would second the suggestion of considering not having only one of each non-white race. Maybe 2 white non-Hispanic, 2 black, 1 white Hispanic, 1 non-white Hispanic?

Latina Bunny said:

I always feel I have to live up to some standards of being "real" Hispanic/Latino/Puerto Rican/whatever and dealing with some disappointment when I don't meet them...

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Why? Not being mean. Asking because while that was what you grew up with, now that you're aware of it, maybe finding a way to live up to your own expectations is one way towards a happier place for you. Not an easy road. One of the hardest, IME. But well worth it.

OTOH, I wonder if some of this confusion or discomfort can be ascribed to not knowing where you belong because the "belonging" is externally defined? Without that external definition, it's probable to carve your own "belonging niche". When that niche solidifies for you, becomes internalised and part of you, self ID is clearer.

Not being idealistic. I did exactly what I've described. Does it work 100%? Nope. But despite my other troubles, I'm in a far better place than I was. (If you want to know what that was, PM me. Not that bad, no, but... )

Snitchcat said:

Why?

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Well, that basic human need for that sense of belonging, of course. Isn't that what many people kind of want? And that sense of belonging to a community and getting support and maybe some solidarity? (Why else is POC, LGBT, etc, groups a thing?)

Anyway. I really don't freaking know why it still bothers me, but it does.

I feel I am between two worlds, and I would feel bad if I shut out one of my worlds for the other.

But I also feel that doubt of whether I can even even claim any of the worlds as fully "mine" (the Puerto Rican/Latino aspect especially).

My mother feels the same as well, and she's bilingual. She never felt like she belonged to the Puerto Rican society, but she also didn't feel like she fit in with (Anglo/White) American society as well.

There were even some Puerto Ricans who got angry at her, or scolded her, just for speaking/expressing herself in English. They would even speak to my mother in front of me, scolding her or expressing disappointment in my mom not teaching us Spanish and stuff like that. (I knew what they were saying, even in Spanish.)

It's annoying, but I feel it's something I will have to live with for the rest of my life, because I do not want to get rid of any of me.

I want to reconnect or reconcile the worlds, and it sometimes feels like it works, but there are times when I don't feel like it does, so it gives me a heavy heart at times.

Snitchcat said:

OTOH, I wonder if some of this confusion or discomfort can be ascribed to not knowing where you belong because the "belonging" is externally defined? Without that external definition, it's probable to carve your own "belonging niche". When that niche solidifies for you, becomes internalised and part of you, self ID is clearer.

Not being idealistic. I did exactly what I've described. Does it work 100%? Nope. But despite my other troubles, I'm in a far better place than I was. (If you want to know what that was, PM me. Not that bad, no, but... )

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Yes, I guess it's externally defined...I think? But isn't that like everything else? (Even this thread has people externally defining whether a fiction has enough POC to be considered diverse enough...)

At this point, I don't know what to do.

I just go about being my typical American girl self (with some limited Spanish and trying to learn some more), but I still really don't feel confident about myself.

I don't like that feeling of uncertainty or being put into a confusing mix of some weird generic "American" identity that doesn't make any sense.

Because what is American in the end, really? What do you do if you have the blood of conquerors and the blood of those who have had to deal with said conquerors?

What do you do if both "worlds" are somewhat hostile to each other or just at odds with each other? (Even to this day, during this intense election and in a very divisive political landscape.)

What if one group doesn't want to lose their language and culture?

It's still an on-going up and down, push-and-pull thing, and I doubt that it will ever go away. I have to start accepting this reality.

Especially with my first name and surnames being, er, "foreign" sounding and people will still make assumptions about me. (It's not an Anglo-American name, that's for sure. It sounds pretty Spanish, and my first name sounds pretty and is a rare, foreign name.)

It's a minor frustration, but it's something that keeps being on my mind whenever I am interacting with anyone who is Latino or Hispanic.