I have a dear friend who writes for one of the Love Inspired line, and writes at least 4 books a year. She cannot quit her day job.
Harlequin and earning a living question
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Maggie Brooke
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Wow, that's eye opening. She must have minimum sleep requirements as well, since I imagine writing four books in addition to full-time employment would eat up all your free time and then some.
Well, LI is a category line so the books are in the 45-55K range, which makes it a little easier.
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Writing for most people is a marathon, not a sprint. Several years ago I read a blog post Maya Banks' wrote about annual income. The point she emphasized was "the money is in the backlist". Even when she was signing six and seven figure deals, the majority of her annual income came from the collective sales of her backlist.
The likelihood of anyone making enough money in their first year to earn a living is slim to none. Doesn't matter what publisher you have or if you self-publish. The writers who earn a living off of writing produce books on a consistent basis AND have a growing readership. The first you can control, the second you can't.
The likelihood of anyone making enough money in their first year to earn a living is slim to none. Doesn't matter what publisher you have or if you self-publish. The writers who earn a living off of writing produce books on a consistent basis AND have a growing readership. The first you can control, the second you can't.
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I wish my mind created these kind of romance stories. I'm a little envious of writers who can do that.
I tried reading several of them, looking for inspiration that I could use to write my own Harlequin-style romance. I think I enjoyed them. I mean, I read them cover-to-cover in 1-2 days, but once they were out of my hand, they were out of my mind.
If you can write 3-5 of those books a year, then go for it!
I tried reading several of them, looking for inspiration that I could use to write my own Harlequin-style romance. I think I enjoyed them. I mean, I read them cover-to-cover in 1-2 days, but once they were out of my hand, they were out of my mind.
If you can write 3-5 of those books a year, then go for it!
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the impression I'm getting is that people can support themselves by writing this way if they live in areas that are not San Francisco or New York (or Portland, these days). Maisey Yates has written myriad Harlequin books, but she lives in a rural area and spends much of her time writing.
I've been listening to a lot of self published authors, and they seem to live rather frugally or write like hell or more probably both. Joanna Penn doesn't own her own home, for example. Lindsay Buroker writes a new book every month or so. None of her books are best sellers, but taken as a whole they make enough money for her to live on.
I've been listening to a lot of self published authors, and they seem to live rather frugally or write like hell or more probably both. Joanna Penn doesn't own her own home, for example. Lindsay Buroker writes a new book every month or so. None of her books are best sellers, but taken as a whole they make enough money for her to live on.
In the UK, the Society of Authors carries out a survey every few years to look into writers' annual incomes. I can't remember exact figures from the most recent survey but it showed that most writers, no matter how they were published, earned very little: I think the average was about £11,000 a year. That's not a lot to live on.
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Maisey Yates has over 50 titles. 50. That's a huge backlist. So when a new reader discovers her books, many will start going through her backlist. She's doing great right now, but even for her it took years when she was starting out.
http://www.maiseyyates.com/2013/04/02/a-reflective-and-thankful-post/
Absolutely agree. I haven't come across many people who were able to do this without putting a few years writing while holding down another job. (I'm not looking at you, Stephenie Meyer. Go away. You're skewing the curve.)
It is interesting that MY makes money from her backlist. My understanding was that most HQN authors did not. I suspect she is skewing the curve too, but that was a wonderful blog post to read. Thank you for sharing it!
It is interesting that MY makes money from her backlist. My understanding was that most HQN authors did not. I suspect she is skewing the curve too, but that was a wonderful blog post to read. Thank you for sharing it!
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It depends partially on what you define as "making a living."
I don't see myself ever being able to replace my income as a writer, let alone replace my family's entire income. I'm mid-career in finance, and my family's primary breadwinner. I'd have to make a MONSTER book sale.
However, a younger person, especially one whose income is secondary in the household, who might be able to see additional savings such as daycare, transportation, work clothes, etc., might be able to replace their net income from another full time or part time job by writing 4 HQ books per year. Or an older person, like my mom who has a pension to pay the bills, but wants to turn her lifetime of teaching reading, writing, spelling and grammar into enough money to travel a couple of times a year could certainly pull it off.
A lot of this is a matter of perspective.
Even Old Hack's 11K/year ($14K USD) is more than my son makes in a year, busting his back moving boxes for FedEx.
Math and I aren't always on the best of terms, but I have to ask: is that looking at everyone who's written anything that year? I would expect a short story writer to not make as much money as a novelist, and I would expect someone who writes several books a year to make more money than someone who writes one book a year. Did they break down the survey along those lines?
That might not have been true ten years ago, but now category romance can live on in ebook form rather than disappearing from the shelves after a month, and continue to earn money.
I can't remember I'm afraid. It's online, though, and only recently published, I think, so you should be able to find it.
Backlists are interesting things.
I don't know exactly how Harlequin works in the US but in the UK, where I am, HM&B has a business model which is very distinct from most other publishers. It publishes a lot of new books every month; its books are more often shelved in supermarkets than bookshops; and at the end of the month (or six weeks) all its titles are cleared off those shelves and replaced by the next month's list.
And for the first month's books, that's that. Their sales are done.
They pay low advances, and expect a high turnover from their authors. I've heard talk that they don't happily revert rights, so it's hard for their authors to make money from their backlists because they aren't available for sale and the rights don't revert, so they can't self publish.
The message behind all this is that we must be careful to fully understand not just the contracts we sign, but also our publishers' business models and plans for our books.
That's true here as well for their category lines (the books in their single title lines have a longer shelf life, like a regular MMPB), but they do remain available as e-books at on-line retailers...which might contribute to their reluctance to revert rights.
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Maisey Yates started out with Harlequin Presents, but I believe most of her titles are the HQN imprint now. She's not strictly category any longer.
ETA: Her most recent release (8/1/2016) is a Harlequin Presents. So she's still active in category.
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I agree. And while the Harlequin name does help get those sales, especially at the start, once those books are in the publisher's backlist but are getting no active promotional help from the publisher, it gets much harder to get any sales for them.
Also, I do wonder what terms the authors get. I've heard several negative things about the HM&B contract in the UK, many associated with their business model but several associated with apparently-stringent, author-unfriendly terms. I suspect the royalty rates, reversion clauses, etc., aren't terribly good for the authors. But I haven't see a contract for myself, but trust the people who have reported these things to me.
Ah I'm a debut writer learning so much from you in this forum.
Reading all this I'm thinking: do I need to get an agent? Am I "at risk" of making poor decisions flying solo over here? How are you guys working - you all have agents? I'm Swedish, writing in English now but also have a Swedish manuscript, so I guess I'd need two, one for the Swedish market and one for the US market.
If you have an agent: how did you find your agent? A google search? A recommendation?
Reading all this I'm thinking: do I need to get an agent? Am I "at risk" of making poor decisions flying solo over here? How are you guys working - you all have agents? I'm Swedish, writing in English now but also have a Swedish manuscript, so I guess I'd need two, one for the Swedish market and one for the US market.
If you have an agent: how did you find your agent? A google search? A recommendation?
Hey everyone, I feel a little like I'm thread crashing, but I've noticed I get quite a bit of traffic to my website from this thread. And since some of this is speculation about Harlequin earnings (and my earnings specifically!) I thought I'd pop in and give some input.
First off, if I am repeating anything someone else has said, I apologize.
Second, I saw a lot of talk about Harlequin's advances being low. When we're talking advances and Harlequin I think it's important the distinction be made between category romance imprints and single title imprints. I write for both, and the model for them is quite different (which I do know has been mentioned here). Advances for category are lower. They are shorter books than ST, and they have a shorter initial shelf time.
I think every example given here by other authors is true. And my experience is true too. But the problem with trying to gain a consensus on a publisher that publishes so many books, and such a variety, is that every income level exists. Harlequin's category lines don't all sell equally. Some sell much better than others. Some sell better in North America, some sell better in foreign markets. And then within that, each author has a different level of success.
My advances have gone up considerably for my category romances. I know that isn't the case for everyone. The advances for Harlequin's single title lines (HQN, MIRA, Graydon House) are competitive with any big 5 publisher for mass market or trade deals.
In regards to category backlist earning money. It absolutely does. I earn royalties on my first book which came out six years ago. Some of that is because I write for Harlequin Presents, which is a globally successful line. Royalties from foreign markets are a large percentage of my earnings. There are also reprints. My first book has been reprinted and reissued several times. So yes, category has a short shelf life. But between later foreign language releases, reissues and digital sales, it is more than possible to continue to earn money on those titles. But it takes time.
Which brings me to Harlequin's contracts and rights reversions. Yes, it is hard to get rights back from Harlequin, for the reasons stated above. You're never really out of print. I sign my contracts knowing that, because I also know that I would rather have all of the other things Harlequin offers me. Much more than I want to fuss with putting out my older titles again. So to me it's not a matter of a good contract v a bad one. In this case, it's about knowing what matters to you as an author. This is a non-issue for me. I know some people who find it problematic. It's the same with foreign royalty rates at HQ, which I know other authors consider an issue. I don't, in large part because I've published elsewhere and no other publisher I was with was able to get me the volume of foreign sales I got from Harlequin. The lower rate still earned me more money, and it was no work on my part.
I make a lot of decisions based on what I enjoy. I enjoy writing. I enjoy talking about writing. I don't want to try to sell my work into foreign markets. I don't want to format and reissue past works. That could change, of course, but for the past seven years, that's been my business model. Do more of the thing I enjoy (write), and don't take on what I don't. Maybe I make less per title than someone self publishing, but I would rather write an extra book a year.
Again, these are all personal decisions. There's not a right or wrong answer in my mind. It's only about what you find sustainable, and what you find reasonable and enjoyable.
I have written at least ten books a year of varying lengths for seven years. I've written for several publishers over the course of that time. I've done category and single title, print books and digital. I do make a living, I think by anyone's standards, regardless of whether they live rurally or not. We are, right now, a family of five who live very comfortably with only my writing income.
It's possible. It's possible in all avenues of writing to earn a living. At Harlequin, writing category. At Harlequin writing single title. As an Indie author. With big 5 publishers. It's all possible. I think the important thing is to be aware of the market, be aware of the sales of the line you're aiming for if you're looking at Harlequin/M&B, and see if that meshes with your goals. (a few ways to check that out: a bookscan subscription through RWA, or even just what you see at Walmart is an indicator of which lines are doing better at the moment) If you're thinking Indie or digital, a perusal of Amazon is a good place to start, if you're thinking print...again, Walmart and what you see there is a good indicator of what's selling well in that market.
Be aware of the market, and be aware of you. What brings you joy, what your goals are. What you want to control, and what you want to be able to let go of. That's the best advice I can give anyone. Because a publishing contract (or publishing a book on your own!) is just the beginning. This isn't about reaching a finish line, but about grabbing hold of the opportunity presented and running with it. With that in mind, you want to be running the race that best suits you. I'm not suggesting you have to enjoy it all the time (lord knows I don't, I'm procrastinating here instead of working on my current MS...) but it's just about the balance of investing the MOST time in the thing you enjoy MOST.
And that can change. You can get into something and decide you don't enjoy it, and it's not for you, and you can go another route later.
Best of luck, everyone.
First off, if I am repeating anything someone else has said, I apologize.
Second, I saw a lot of talk about Harlequin's advances being low. When we're talking advances and Harlequin I think it's important the distinction be made between category romance imprints and single title imprints. I write for both, and the model for them is quite different (which I do know has been mentioned here). Advances for category are lower. They are shorter books than ST, and they have a shorter initial shelf time.
I think every example given here by other authors is true. And my experience is true too. But the problem with trying to gain a consensus on a publisher that publishes so many books, and such a variety, is that every income level exists. Harlequin's category lines don't all sell equally. Some sell much better than others. Some sell better in North America, some sell better in foreign markets. And then within that, each author has a different level of success.
My advances have gone up considerably for my category romances. I know that isn't the case for everyone. The advances for Harlequin's single title lines (HQN, MIRA, Graydon House) are competitive with any big 5 publisher for mass market or trade deals.
In regards to category backlist earning money. It absolutely does. I earn royalties on my first book which came out six years ago. Some of that is because I write for Harlequin Presents, which is a globally successful line. Royalties from foreign markets are a large percentage of my earnings. There are also reprints. My first book has been reprinted and reissued several times. So yes, category has a short shelf life. But between later foreign language releases, reissues and digital sales, it is more than possible to continue to earn money on those titles. But it takes time.
Which brings me to Harlequin's contracts and rights reversions. Yes, it is hard to get rights back from Harlequin, for the reasons stated above. You're never really out of print. I sign my contracts knowing that, because I also know that I would rather have all of the other things Harlequin offers me. Much more than I want to fuss with putting out my older titles again. So to me it's not a matter of a good contract v a bad one. In this case, it's about knowing what matters to you as an author. This is a non-issue for me. I know some people who find it problematic. It's the same with foreign royalty rates at HQ, which I know other authors consider an issue. I don't, in large part because I've published elsewhere and no other publisher I was with was able to get me the volume of foreign sales I got from Harlequin. The lower rate still earned me more money, and it was no work on my part.
I make a lot of decisions based on what I enjoy. I enjoy writing. I enjoy talking about writing. I don't want to try to sell my work into foreign markets. I don't want to format and reissue past works. That could change, of course, but for the past seven years, that's been my business model. Do more of the thing I enjoy (write), and don't take on what I don't. Maybe I make less per title than someone self publishing, but I would rather write an extra book a year.
Again, these are all personal decisions. There's not a right or wrong answer in my mind. It's only about what you find sustainable, and what you find reasonable and enjoyable.
I have written at least ten books a year of varying lengths for seven years. I've written for several publishers over the course of that time. I've done category and single title, print books and digital. I do make a living, I think by anyone's standards, regardless of whether they live rurally or not. We are, right now, a family of five who live very comfortably with only my writing income.
It's possible. It's possible in all avenues of writing to earn a living. At Harlequin, writing category. At Harlequin writing single title. As an Indie author. With big 5 publishers. It's all possible. I think the important thing is to be aware of the market, be aware of the sales of the line you're aiming for if you're looking at Harlequin/M&B, and see if that meshes with your goals. (a few ways to check that out: a bookscan subscription through RWA, or even just what you see at Walmart is an indicator of which lines are doing better at the moment) If you're thinking Indie or digital, a perusal of Amazon is a good place to start, if you're thinking print...again, Walmart and what you see there is a good indicator of what's selling well in that market.
Be aware of the market, and be aware of you. What brings you joy, what your goals are. What you want to control, and what you want to be able to let go of. That's the best advice I can give anyone. Because a publishing contract (or publishing a book on your own!) is just the beginning. This isn't about reaching a finish line, but about grabbing hold of the opportunity presented and running with it. With that in mind, you want to be running the race that best suits you. I'm not suggesting you have to enjoy it all the time (lord knows I don't, I'm procrastinating here instead of working on my current MS...) but it's just about the balance of investing the MOST time in the thing you enjoy MOST.
And that can change. You can get into something and decide you don't enjoy it, and it's not for you, and you can go another route later.
Best of luck, everyone.
Thanks Maisey,
Personally, I believe that people can still make money with Harlequin but if they want it bad enough. As an Indie Erotica/Romance/Horror author, my writing income is between 30,000 to 35,000 each year and invest in my writing career. You are correct about being aware of sales and marketing in your writing genre. So, thank you for such a wonderful post!
Personally, I believe that people can still make money with Harlequin but if they want it bad enough. As an Indie Erotica/Romance/Horror author, my writing income is between 30,000 to 35,000 each year and invest in my writing career. You are correct about being aware of sales and marketing in your writing genre. So, thank you for such a wonderful post!
Hey everyone, I feel a little like I'm thread crashing, but I've noticed I get quite a bit of traffic to my website from this thread. And since some of this is speculation about Harlequin earnings (and my earnings specifically!) I thought I'd pop in and give some input.
First off, if I am repeating anything someone else has said, I apologize.
Second, I saw a lot of talk about Harlequin's advances being low. When we're talking advances and Harlequin I think it's important the distinction be made between category romance imprints and single title imprints. I write for both, and the model for them is quite different (which I do know has been mentioned here). Advances for category are lower. They are shorter books than ST, and they have a shorter initial shelf time.
I think every example given here by other authors is true. And my experience is true too. But the problem with trying to gain a consensus on a publisher that publishes so many books, and such a variety, is that every income level exists. Harlequin's category lines don't all sell equally. Some sell much better than others. Some sell better in North America, some sell better in foreign markets. And then within that, each author has a different level of success.
My advances have gone up considerably for my category romances. I know that isn't the case for everyone. The advances for Harlequin's single title lines (HQN, MIRA, Graydon House) are competitive with any big 5 publisher for mass market or trade deals.
In regards to category backlist earning money. It absolutely does. I earn royalties on my first book which came out six years ago. Some of that is because I write for Harlequin Presents, which is a globally successful line. Royalties from foreign markets are a large percentage of my earnings. There are also reprints. My first book has been reprinted and reissued several times. So yes, category has a short shelf life. But between later foreign language releases, reissues and digital sales, it is more than possible to continue to earn money on those titles. But it takes time.
Which brings me to Harlequin's contracts and rights reversions. Yes, it is hard to get rights back from Harlequin, for the reasons stated above. You're never really out of print. I sign my contracts knowing that, because I also know that I would rather have all of the other things Harlequin offers me. Much more than I want to fuss with putting out my older titles again. So to me it's not a matter of a good contract v a bad one. In this case, it's about knowing what matters to you as an author. This is a non-issue for me. I know some people who find it problematic. It's the same with foreign royalty rates at HQ, which I know other authors consider an issue. I don't, in large part because I've published elsewhere and no other publisher I was with was able to get me the volume of foreign sales I got from Harlequin. The lower rate still earned me more money, and it was no work on my part.
I make a lot of decisions based on what I enjoy. I enjoy writing. I enjoy talking about writing. I don't want to try to sell my work into foreign markets. I don't want to format and reissue past works. That could change, of course, but for the past seven years, that's been my business model. Do more of the thing I enjoy (write), and don't take on what I don't. Maybe I make less per title than someone self publishing, but I would rather write an extra book a year.
Again, these are all personal decisions. There's not a right or wrong answer in my mind. It's only about what you find sustainable, and what you find reasonable and enjoyable.
I have written at least ten books a year of varying lengths for seven years. I've written for several publishers over the course of that time. I've done category and single title, print books and digital. I do make a living, I think by anyone's standards, regardless of whether they live rurally or not. We are, right now, a family of five who live very comfortably with only my writing income.
It's possible. It's possible in all avenues of writing to earn a living. At Harlequin, writing category. At Harlequin writing single title. As an Indie author. With big 5 publishers. It's all possible. I think the important thing is to be aware of the market, be aware of the sales of the line you're aiming for if you're looking at Harlequin/M&B, and see if that meshes with your goals. (a few ways to check that out: a bookscan subscription through RWA, or even just what you see at Walmart is an indicator of which lines are doing better at the moment) If you're thinking Indie or digital, a perusal of Amazon is a good place to start, if you're thinking print...again, Walmart and what you see there is a good indicator of what's selling well in that market.
Be aware of the market, and be aware of you. What brings you joy, what your goals are. What you want to control, and what you want to be able to let go of. That's the best advice I can give anyone. Because a publishing contract (or publishing a book on your own!) is just the beginning. This isn't about reaching a finish line, but about grabbing hold of the opportunity presented and running with it. With that in mind, you want to be running the race that best suits you. I'm not suggesting you have to enjoy it all the time (lord knows I don't, I'm procrastinating here instead of working on my current MS...) but it's just about the balance of investing the MOST time in the thing you enjoy MOST.
And that can change. You can get into something and decide you don't enjoy it, and it's not for you, and you can go another route later.
Best of luck, everyone.
It's been a while since I've been here (been revising a manuscript for Harlequin, oddly enough), so I missed that this thread had been updated. I too would like to say Thanks, Maisey. That was very helpful.
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