End of Postmodernism?

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kuwisdelu

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The contradiction to postmodernism is that (not all, but enough) postmodernists have a very negative, if not outright hateful, view of pretty much religion in general

Hmm. I disagree with that. I don't see that at all. Can you explain how you came to that conclusion?

Postmodernism heavily influences my writing, and I've never found it to be in conflict with my religious views or my spirituality.

To the contrary, I see postmodernism's acceptance that truth is relative and dependent on personal perspective to be perfectly congruent with the simultaneous truths of multiple world religions.

If one is of the perspective that "my religion is right and all others are wrong," then I could certainly see postmodernism might conflict with that.

But if you accept that truth can be arrived at through multiple belief systems and perspectives, then that's right up postmodernism's alley.
 
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America's Proust

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Like I said, not all postmodernists believe that, obviously, but there's been enough of them that do, and this formed a sort of stereotype. You said earlier that you follow a non-Abrahamic religion. Those aren't the religions that the postmodernists referenced above makes the bad habit of attacking. Their favorite targets are the Abrahamic faiths.
 

Ari Meermans

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Let's move away from the discussion of what a subset of remodernist proponents believe about specific religions. The original manifesto by Childish and Thomson—and there were several—specifically states that spirituality is not religion.

Since Childish and Thomson issued their manifesto as a rejection of postmodernism and advocated a return to modernism, which they believed to be as yet unfulfilled--therefore, the rejection of "post-"--it might be best to proceed from whether one supplants the other or whether they can coexist. That, I believe, follows the question put forth in the OP.


ETA: Going forward, do cite your sources.
 
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Mink Stollen

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Hey, y'all. I don't want to harsh anyone's buzz here. I'm not real good with big blocks of text and you guys have definitely been doing some heavy lifting in this thread. What I'm saying is, excuse me if I missed some of the finer points.

In brief, I think of Modernism and PostModernism as pretty big file drawers. When I pull them out I find sheaves of other folders within each of those drawers. And then of course within each folder is a collection of authors. So, could one of you big, strong heavy-lifters help me figure out where I should be filing my folder of Oulipo writers? I've been kind of assuming they're in the PostModernism drawer, but they're just formalists working on problems. Lots of times I just avoid the filing issue and leave the whole folder on my night table. Better than doing crosswords, y'know?

As for what comes next? I think Flarf summed up a particularly poignant direction in contemporary literature. I'm sure y'all can find your own references, being just as brainy as you are. Of course, I'm inclined to think that superintelligence could be the next big threat to mankind that writers may face off against in our own all-too-human way. And when robots can mow the lawn in an artistic fashion they'll be ready to write literary work too, I'd bet.
 

dragonfliet

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Honestly, I get annoyed at the idea that types of writing ever end. (Mornngstar already mentioned this, but long ago). They don't. We still have romances and realism (most of "literary" fiction is a largely unexamined realism, though some is slightly self-conscious, but still just straight up realism). There are still works that are straight up naturalism, and continuations of Modernism. Etc. I do not think it will come to an end, though like many particular branches of literature, it has waned in prominence, and will probably never regain a position as it had before.

A lot of the consideration of the postmodern here has focused on really shallow things, or missed the point entirely. While metafiction and the questioning of reality are components, they aren't really the drivers of postmodernism. Only a few particular, weird, stalwarts are ready to go and dub things like Don Quixote, Tristram Shandy, Joseph Andrews, etc. as being "postmodern." Primarily, no one seems to have talked about what is perhaps one of the most absolutely important parts of post-modernism, which is its focus on history. In one of Frederic Jameson's most famous chapters (in his tedious though brilliant, very long book: Postmodernism), he examines post-modern literature through post-modern architecture (Linda Hutcheon also carries this argument on, it should be noted), and points out that while in Modernism, the sense of progress means a breaking away from old ideas and creating "new" ideas, things never seen before, etc., in Post-modernism, they examine the "old" idea in a new way: Ie: a Neogothic catheral, but made of steel and sheet glass instead of stonework. It is this integration of history with an examination of it (not a carrying it forward, as you might see with something like neoclassicism, for instance) as both present and past, relevant and not, that really defines postmodernism. This is why the focus on historical revisionism, fairy tales, and the like has played such a huge part. This builds to what I think is absolutely key, and can be found in John Barth's incredible essay "The Literature of Replenishment" in which postmodernism is a "synthesis or transcension of [the] transcension [that is found within modernism (or other movements, largely)]" and is a "self-transcendent parody," which I think gets simplified into irony, but isn't: rather, it is something that begins in parody (pastiche/satire/etc.), but ends up transcending these boundaries to hold the past and the present as bound together.

Which is all too long of a paragraph to write about that. But I have particular ideas, and find that most people that say things about postmodernism have read only a handful of the postmodernists, and have generally read very little of the theory surrounding it. And it's a topic close to my heart and research interests, so...

Now, as to where does literature go from there: Look at what it's been doing. Postmodernism was most alive and kicking in the 60s through early 80s, and has been dying off since. The main people to go to have been Pynchon, Coover, Barth, Carter, Calvino, Gass, , etc., and while there have been those who have written later who fit the bill (Delillo, early Ondaatje, Wallace, etc.), the movement has been largely muted. In that space we're seen Magical Realism, New Sincerity, L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E (associated with poetry, but connected to and filled with lots of prose), postcolonialism, etc. Some has stuck and some hasn't. Sometimes these are deliberative affectations (I'm thinking particularly of Tom McCarthy's International Necronautical Society and their silly little manifesto), but generally there are trends. Who the hell knows where it will go, but contemporarily, people are very concerned with trust and marginal beliefs, where we narrow our view of belief to such a degree that we become largely blind (I guess you can see how I feel about this), but who knows? Movements are identified after they are done, for the most part. I like that. Who wants the responsibility of crafting the future of literature AS WELL AS a thoughtful and interesting novel?
 
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