Writing and family: could you have them both?

I've had both! A writing career (8 novels, published by Viking, S&S, etc.), a couple of non-fiction collaborations, one husband, two kids, and now two grandkids. And I'm not privately wealthy, alas. It's not easy combining family and work, but it's doable. I actually posted a blog post not too long ago about how to do it. (Duct tape optional.) Have a read.

Honestly, it's not much different for any working person looking to find that family/work balance---not only writers struggle.

To be entirely honest, I would certainly have more time to write without family obligations (especially being a sole provider for mine). I know a few full-time writers who have families but, without exception, they have a spouse who provides financial support (and health insurance—a big consideration for my family).

The question is: how would I actually use that time? Somehow, I suspect I wouldn't be as productive as I'd like to think I would be

Albdantesque said:

I agree with what some members said, i.e. there's a lot to learn from your own family. But the responsibility itself and mental burden seem to outweigh whatever there's to learn. I know some great writers who were married, but they were not good spouses (some of them were the worst ones, but insofar as times were different their spouses had to cope somehow

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Relationships are relationships, they have their own dynamic.

Writing is writing, it has its own dynamic.

I don't really think there's a special inevitable causation/ connection between the act of writing and the health or otherwise of relationships.

In short, if you write, write.

PeteMC said:

Unless you become very successful I'm afraid you just aren't going to support yourself by writing fiction.

I work a full time corporate job and write in the evenings. Sure, I don't get to watch much TV but it's a small enough sacrifice to make.

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Thousands of writers you've never heard of support themselves very well by writing. The very successful earn millions, often tens of million per year. The journeyman writer may never earn more than a hundred and fifty thousand, but how much do you need to support yourself.

It doesn't matter what your profession is, or what you hobby is, or what your goals are, if you want a relationship to work, it has to come first. If it doesn't come first, then the people are the problem, not the sidelines you have going.

I don't see how people do it. I can't even have a boyfriend without feeling like my creative time/energy is being drained.

Think about it:

If you wake up and work a typical eight-hour day, and you need to sleep another eight hours at night to be healthy, you have eight hours left. When you consider things like errands/cooking/getting food you have maybe six. That means you could have three hours for writing and three hours for your partner. And that's IF you have no other interests, hobbies, classes, etc. I have artistic hobbies outside of writing. I also work out at least an hour a day, which I need to stay healthy and fight depression.

Less than three hours of writing a day isn't enough for me, personally. It's not that I couldn't do it; I would just feel rushed, stressed, and unhappy. Three hours a day also doesn't seem to be enough for any boyfriend I've had. Almost every guy I've dated has either tried to make me feel guilty about writing so much or just demanded more time. It makes me feel suffocated.

I could probably date someone who was VERY independent and lost in their own creative projects a lot of the time, but most guys expect more than I want to give. I've realized I need to just accept being single. So yeah, how you guys manage romantic relationships and parental responsibilities is beyond me. You're warriors!

so, to the OP, how much are you writing now, with no relationship/kids in the way?

My wife is very supportive of my writing, and since I am the sole income provider, she handles the housework and grocery duties most of the time. That doesn't mean I blow her off every day just to get a word count, but if I declare that I'm going to work in my study, she respects and encourages that. I would prefer to do it full-time, as my current day job can be very demanding and stressful, so I don't always have the energy to write once I'm home. Can't imagine trying to raise kids. Neither of us are ready for that...

andiwrite said:

I don't see how people do it. I can't even have a boyfriend without feeling like my creative time/energy is being drained.

Think about it:

If you wake up and work a typical eight-hour day, and you need to sleep another eight hours at night to be healthy, you have eight hours left. When you consider things like errands/cooking/getting food you have maybe six. That means you could have three hours for writing and three hours for your partner. And that's IF you have no other interests, hobbies, classes, etc. I have artistic hobbies outside of writing. I also work out at least an hour a day, which I need to stay healthy and fight depression.

Less than three hours of writing a day isn't enough for me, personally. It's not that I couldn't do it; I would just feel rushed, stressed, and unhappy. Three hours a day also doesn't seem to be enough for any boyfriend I've had. Almost every guy I've dated has either tried to make me feel guilty about writing so much or just demanded more time. It makes me feel suffocated.

I could probably date someone who was VERY independent and lost in their own creative projects a lot of the time, but most guys expect more than I want to give. I've realized I need to just accept being single. So yeah, how you guys manage romantic relationships and parental responsibilities is beyond me. You're warriors!

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Are you kidding? What you describe is either the ideal woman, or, perhaps one who's a touch too "available" and underfoot.

andiwrite said:

I don't see how people do it. I can't even have a boyfriend without feeling like my creative time/energy is being drained.

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If I may make some unsolicited observations ... first, writing is obviously the higher priority for you. For me, having a family was. I cannot be functional and happy without being in a stable relationship, in a comfortable home situation, and without being a parent I wouldn't have been sufficiently actualized to get around to writing. If you are single and comfortable enough to write, more power to you.

It's also worth noting that I got the husband and kid sorted out before I was a writer. Once you have them in place and they have their own thing going on, they need less attention than they did at the beginning of the relationship. When you're all around each other constantly, time to yourselves becomes a good thing, you know?

Another thing that might be a personal difference between me and you, but I tend to attribute to generational differences, is that you are planning your theoretical life by hours and using it to justify your course of action. I just do things. Sometimes that blows up in my face, but sometimes not. No conclusions to draw here, just amused that people can be so different.

Albdantesque said:

By the way, I'd like to emphasize the cultural background also. People from rich countries/classes tend to love independence more than people from poor countries/classes. I suppose that a person from Southern Europe (or a US immigrant) would be more demanding toward her partner than a person from Northern Europe. I might be wrong, but I have this impression too. In some countries hard working and being independent is seen as a norm, whereas in other countries/cultures is seen as an exception... and working or reading too much would make you creepy in some cultures. I do not doubt that both worldviews have their pros and cons. I just wanted to introduce culture into our conversation.

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Imma disagree with all of that. That's a load of stereotypes, not reality.

If you prioritize other things too-highly over a relationship -- writing, doing drugs, mountain-climbing -- then the relationship suffers. But prioritizing a relationship over what you passionately want to do with your life causes you to suffer.

You find your balance. You maintain your boundaries, but you still negotiate with the people in your life about how you'll interact. It's called living.

For the time being, I am a SAHM. I don't get to be by myself, or write uninterrupted, unless my husband is working late and the children are in bed before he gets back. And sometimes, like right now, he'll run an errand and take the children and I'll stay home. It's not long enough to get much writing done, and it's frustrating to get all creative systems up and going and then have to yank the plug in the middle of it and move onto something else. So sometimes I just don't. My husband acts hurt if I'm not available to do whatever he wants whenever he wants, and thinks I should spend my day doing more of the chores and actively engaged with the children instead of letting them entertain themselves. Sometimes he tells me that he feels like he's carrying more of the work load than I am. He doesn't know the meaning of taking it easy, and doesn't take break unless it's to catch up on sleep, and expects me to be that way too, out of some sense of "fairness" in labor distribution. So when I do set aside some time to write, you bet I feel horribly guilty about it.

Sometimes I feel cynical, like sure, maybe a man can have a family and write, but not a woman, because women must be domestic goddesses and find their every fulfillment in wiping babies' butts, but men can have other interests. Other comments here indicate that I may be unduly cynical on that front. Sorry, dudes.

But the truth is, I do get some writing in anyway, even if it's guilt-ridden writing. I've been keeping tabs on my wordcount, and 5-10K a month seems to be about what I can churn out. Sometimes that feels pitiful, sometimes that seems amazing. March was spectacularly awful because my husband took a vacation from work for two weeks and little writing happened during that time. I got just over 3K for the entire month.

I say you can do whatever you like in life, but try to do it with supportive people surrounding you (or, you know, not surrounding you because they're supportive), not unsupportive people. It's more fun that way.

jjdebenedictis said:

Imma disagree with all of that. That's a load of stereotypes, not reality.

If you prioritize other things too-highly over a relationship -- writing, doing drugs, mountain-climbing -- then the relationship suffers. But prioritizing a relationship over what you passionately want to do with your life causes you to suffer.

You find your balance. You maintain your boundaries, but you still negotiate with the people in your life about how you'll interact. It's called living.

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+1

Silva said:

For the time being, I am a SAHM. I don't get to be by myself, or write uninterrupted, unless my husband is working late and the children are in bed before he gets back. And sometimes, like right now, he'll run an errand and take the children and I'll stay home. It's not long enough to get much writing done, and it's frustrating to get all creative systems up and going and then have to yank the plug in the middle of it and move onto something else. So sometimes I just don't. My husband acts hurt if I'm not available to do whatever he wants whenever he wants, and thinks I should spend my day doing more of the chores and actively engaged with the children instead of letting them entertain themselves. Sometimes he tells me that he feels like he's carrying more of the work load than I am. He doesn't know the meaning of taking it easy, and doesn't take break unless it's to catch up on sleep, and expects me to be that way too, out of some sense of "fairness" in labor distribution. So when I do set aside some time to write, you bet I feel horribly guilty about it.

Sometimes I feel cynical, like sure, maybe a man can have a family and write, but not a woman, because women must be domestic goddesses and find their every fulfillment in wiping babies' butts, but men can have other interests. Other comments here indicate that I may be unduly cynical on that front. Sorry, dudes.

But the truth is, I do get some writing in anyway, even if it's guilt-ridden writing. I've been keeping tabs on my wordcount, and 5-10K a month seems to be about what I can churn out. Sometimes that feels pitiful, sometimes that seems amazing. March was spectacularly awful because my husband took a vacation from work for two weeks and little writing happened during that time. I got just over 3K for the entire month.

I say you can do whatever you like in life, but try to do it with supportive people surrounding you (or, you know, not surrounding you because they're supportive), not unsupportive people. It's more fun that way.

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With all due love and sympathy, I'm going to reiterate, relationships are relationships, writing is writing.

ps, this line saddens me. "I do get some writing in anyway, even if it's guilt-ridden writing."

Big hugs, Silva. I'm so sorry you feel bad about your writing. Recently I was watching CNN's documentary "The Sixties", and it was the episode about feminism. A woman on camera said something like "it is deathly boring to spend day in and day out with little children, especially if society expects you to enjoy it." We love our kids, but we need other things, too.

InspectorFarquar said:

Are you kidding? What you describe is either the ideal woman, or, perhaps one who's a touch too "available" and underfoot.

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What do you mean? I can't tell if you're being serious or making fun of me.

Katharine Tree said:

If I may make some unsolicited observations ... first, writing is obviously the higher priority for you. For me, having a family was. I cannot be functional and happy without being in a stable relationship, in a comfortable home situation, and without being a parent I wouldn't have been sufficiently actualized to get around to writing. If you are single and comfortable enough to write, more power to you.

It's also worth noting that I got the husband and kid sorted out before I was a writer. Once you have them in place and they have their own thing going on, they need less attention than they did at the beginning of the relationship. When you're all around each other constantly, time to yourselves becomes a good thing, you know?

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Oh God... if only that were true. The men who were demanding more from me were men I had lived with for years already. I mostly had long-term relationships throughout my twenties. Definitely not early stages of dating. My last boyfriend and I only dated for a short time, and he started showing a lot of red flags for demanding/controlling behavior so I put a stop to it. What kills me is I cooked dinner for these guys every night (the ones I lived with) and made an effort to spend time with them in the evening. All I wanted was time alone in the late-night hours to work on my writing. They made me feel guilty for that because couples are "supposed to sleep together." I never let them control me but there was always resentment over me staying up all night working. I've always been a night person. People attempting to dictate when I sleep doesn't work for me.

Relationships have been causing me stress and misery for years and it's only recently that I've realized I can just opt out of the whole thing, at least for a while. I feel the opposite way as you. I seem to only be functional, happy, and fully actualized as a person when I'm single. I'm still a romantic at heart though, and I hope things could change if I met the right person. But eh ... I don't really it happening so I'd rather not dream of it too much.

Silva said:

Sometimes I feel cynical, like sure, maybe a man can have a family and write, but not a woman, because women must be domestic goddesses and find their every fulfillment in wiping babies' butts, but men can have other interests.

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My last ex seemed to have the attitude that this is how women should be. I told him I didn't want kids from the beginning, and he didn't take it seriously. He still made comments assuming I would soon be knocked up and raising his babies. WTF!? Unfortunately a lot of guys seem to have the attitude that women are baby makers.

I'm glad you still find time to write! It wouldn't be a matter of guilt for me, I just would not have the energy if I had a kid. So I think you are highly badass, and you shouldn't feel guilty for anything.

StuToYou said:

With all due love and sympathy, I'm going to reiterate, relationships are relationships, writing is writing.

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How do you mean?

I'm a lone mother to two primary school age daughters and I work full time to put food on the table. I write when I can. I get up at 6am each morning to write and try to write after 8pm when the kids are in bed (which sometimes becomes 9pm by the time we're done with finding pajamas, reading bedtime stories and dealing with any end of day dramas) but quite often I'm too tired to write by then. I try to find time at the weekends. Usually I can get a few hours in here and there over the course of the week.

It's a bit frustrating that I don't have more time to write. I feel like I could've finished my current WIP by now if I had more time, but on the other hand, my job isn't boring and it's great being a mum (livened up the housework this morning with mambo Italiano dancing in my very tiny kitchen, before a fun family outing to Asda for the weekly shopping then spent the afternoon kicking a pink football around the park). Money could be a lot better but there's more to life than money - plus there is the possibility of one day making money from writing, if I ever get time to actually finish the damn thing. So I'm not complaining. ***mambo Italianos out of the thread*** (imagine a neanderthal woman dancing very badly to mambo italiano)

Of course you can work full-time, have a family, and write. But you will be making sacrifices on various fronts, because there really ARE only 24 hours in a day. Some people find that their creativity thrives with a busy schedule and actually struggle to be productive when they have too much free time. But others need a lot of quiet, uninterrupted time to do their best work. I would strongly suggest being sure which way your creativity works before trapping yourself in a situation which may make you very unhappy in the long run.

I strongly disagree with the idea that marrying or having children will somehow give you more insight into writing. That's only one of many, many ways to have life experiences that will add depth to your writing. Choosing not to take that path leaves one with time to explore all kinds of other things (travel, pets, volunteering, job flexibility, deeper friendships, additional hobbies, etc), which are at least as enriching to your writing as the alternative.

A lot of what the OP said made me think of the saying: "Life is what happens while you're making plans". Focusing on what you can be doing RIGHT NOW that will enrich your life is really the only way to avoid the trap of life happening around you while you plan for the future. Join a group related to a hobby other than writing. Volunteer somewhere your help is needed. Take a cheap class in some new craft or skill. Adopt a pet. Never let yourself stagnate in a job or course of study which you hate. Apply for different jobs until you get one you don't hate (and don't limit yourself too much--you might be surprised by what you end up enjoying). Through it all, continue to focus on your writing for at least a little while every day.

Maybe, while you're living life, you'll meet a partner you're very compatible with and decide to go forward with a relationship and even marriage. Maybe you'll accomplish a bunch of other things instead. But either way you won't have wasted large amounts of your life worrying about the future.

You can have my ex-Mother-in-law if you want

Albdantesque said:

To Andiwrite: in the post #12, gettingby offered an example on how dating a person with same interests/profession is not always the solution.

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Of course it isn't. They'd have to get me on writing and also NOT be insane/abusive, not be addicted to drugs/into partying or drinking, mesh with my spiritual beliefs, and then on top of that I'd have to be attracted to them (I don't care about looks but I have very specific humor/personality tastes). It's basically impossible, and I've pretty much accepted that. Pairing up and making a family isn't for everyone.

StuToYou said:

With all due love and sympathy, I'm going to reiterate, relationships are relationships, writing is writing.

ps, this line saddens me. "I do get some writing in anyway, even if it's guilt-ridden writing."

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I'm not sure I understand what you mean-- I scrolled up to reread your earlier post and am just not sure how to apply it. I can't compartmentalize my life like that when it's all happening all at once and all in the same place. I don't get to physically or mentally remove myself from my family so anything I do for me (writing) is going to have to happen in the middle of them.

Katharine Tree said:

Big hugs, Silva. I'm so sorry you feel bad about your writing. Recently I was watching CNN's documentary "The Sixties", and it was the episode about feminism. A woman on camera said something like "it is deathly boring to spend day in and day out with little children, especially if society expects you to enjoy it." We love our kids, but we need other things, too.

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Yes, and thanks. When I got married I figured I'd be a sahm forever and enjoy it because I like children. I still like children, but not on a 24/7 basis. My husband has been talking about how he'd be great as a sahd (probably would, to be honest) and I am so going to take him up on that in the next couple of years.

andiwrite said:

I'm glad you still find time to write! It wouldn't be a matter of guilt for me, I just would not have the energy if I had a kid. So I think you are highly badass, and you shouldn't feel guilty for anything.

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Thank you. They are getting to be kinder-aged, and I feel like I finally started to get my energy back in the last year.