College and University Tolerance

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Messages
11,042
Reaction score
841
Location
Second star on the right and on 'til morning.
Website
atsiko.wordpress.com
What are these students supposed to do when they go home for spring break or summer vacation and, as they drive around their town, see numerous "Trump for Prez" signs? Go home and hide under their bed? Or when they graduate, get a job, and find that a bunch of their co-workers support Trump? Demand a safer place to work?
Sure, a Trump presidency is a scary thought. And for me so is a President Clinton or President Sanders . But preventing them or their supporters from speaking (or putting up signs) is not acceptable.

Scary in what way, though? Scary as in people like you are getting murdered by people spouting Clinton or Bernie slogans, and they claim they'll deport you en masse scary, or scary as in you worry where their economic or foreign policies will take the country? 'Cause to me those seem like very different things.



I think we should note that the school did not in fact ban Trump slogans or start a witch-hunt, but instead defended the right of students to chalk what they liked as long as they got permission per school policy, and also asked students to not deface chalkings under any circumstances. So... the college did what everyone was clamoring for during the Mizzou and Yale and other college incidents over free speech and student safety? Seems like a poor example for this line of argument.
 

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Messages
23,124
Reaction score
10,886
Location
Where faults collide
Website
doggedlywriting.blogspot.com
Seems like there has been a lot of news about colleges and universities. So the question is simple.
Are colleges and universities tolerant of ALL groups? And I mean all of them, gay, Christian, liberal, conservative, democrat, republican, socialist, capitalist, etc.

The colleges and universities I've been at have been, or at least they try to be. For instance, they've allow all students to form groups, clubs and alliances on campus, from LGBTQ groups to various religious groups. They invite speakers and provide venues for performers from a wide variety of backgrounds too. And of course, they have researchers who study religion, politics, various groups of people and cultures from both an insider and outsider perspective, depending on the campus and its make up.

As a biology teacher, I have to cover topics that make some students uncomfortable on religious grounds (the scientific view of where we and other life forms got to where we are today), and I assume that other classes that focus on history, religious studies, cultural studies, economics and so on may discuss things or provide explanations for things that some students don't like or agree with. But I try to make it clear I'm not telling them what to believe, and I don't mock or bash religious beliefs in class when we discuss the reasons why they're not scientific.

We did have a blow up on the campus exchange a few years back where one faculty member got upset because the Tuvan throat singers were performing on campus. He said that it was a violation of Church and State, since they were religious in nature, and why were Christians the only religion that wasn't allowed to proselytize or perform on campus. It was explained that A. These performers weren't proselytizing, merely demonstrating a technique, and B. There had in fact been several performances by Christian musical groups on campus that year (a gospel group, Gregorian chanting nuns, and the Mormon Tabernacle choir to name a few).

There are issues with regards to individual people who may use their personal space to express themselves in ways that some students find uncomfortable. When I was on the faculty at a college in New York, for instance, a young man was murdered in Wyoming for being gay. Those of us who considered ourselves allies put rainbow stickers on our doors to let LGBTQ students know they were supported. Someone said, but wouldn't that make Christian students uncomfortable? But A. They were assuming that all Christian students would be uncomfortable with this, and B. Religious faculty are permitted to have things in their offices that indicate their faith, even if that makes some non-religious people, or people who associate their religion with discrimination, uncomfortable.

IMO, a rainbow sticker, or a Christian fish or something like that in one's office is not the same as something that overtly puts another group down.

I have a colleague who occasionally puts cartoons on his door that not only express his liberal sociopolitical views, but do so in ways I think are borderline disrespectful of people who don't share them. The chair (who is very liberal also, btw) has talked to him about this a couple of times. It's not that he's breaking any rules, more that he may not come off as an equal ally to all students who need his help during office hours.

Personally, I don't go out of my way to hide my views, and I've discussed them with students who want to engage in that kind of discourse during conversation, but I don't feel that my position is to preach politics and I steer clear of them in class as much as possible. The problem is, of course, that some scientific issues (climate change, evolution, the biology of orientation and gender identity, risks associated with sexuality and so on) are heavily politicized, so when one expresses the current scientific consensus on an issue, some can take it as a political statement. I try to take the "This is what most scientists have concluded, and this is why, but what we should do with this knowledge is something to discuss in ethics or political science classes).

I think there are sometimes flurries of heightened sensibilities or preciousness (depending on one's perspective) that break out on campuses occasionally, especially during election years or when there's been an unpleasant incident somewhere. Different schools handle this differently, and sometimes clumsily. But that's not the same thing as saying that there's a liberal conspiracy to silence people or shame them for being conservative.

The fact is, there are very real issues regarding free speech and so on with colleges and universities. Someone who chooses to hang, say, a Confederate or Nazi flag in his or her dorm room may be expressing their right to free speech, but they are also sending a pretty terrifying message to some of the other residents of their dorm. Likewise, someone who posts a sign that says "Religion stops a thinking mind" in their room, may think they're being clever and punching "up," since most people in America are religious and the non-religious are the despised minority who can't be elected to public office, but on a college campus, some religious people, at least, feel outnumbered and despised too.

How to balance these expressions of free speech that can segue into harassment or hate speech in private versus shared spaces can end up being a sticky issue in an environment where people spend so much time.

Just my 2 cents as someone who has been in academia all my life.
 
Last edited:

AW Admin

Administrator
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 19, 2008
Messages
18,772
Reaction score
6,286
A great deal depends on the school in question.

Bob Jones University, for instance, wants students to avoid scatological realism, according to their Student Handbook section on Music, Entertainment and Technology.

I'm not mocking them quite as much as it seems, but frankly, their guidelines on acceptable use and appropriate media etc. would pretty much rule out reading sections of the Bible, and ginormous swathes of Chaucer, Shakespeare and Milton.

http://www.bju.edu/life-faith/student-handbook.pdf
 
Last edited:

DancingMaenid

New kid...seven years ago!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
5,058
Reaction score
460
Location
United States
I don't know the specifics, but in the US I'm pretty sure state and federal law plays a role, too. I'm pretty sure state-funded universities can't enact policies that discriminate against protected characteristics such as race or religion, such as banning students of a particular faith from creating a club. Conversely, you can have situations like Virginia faced a few years ago where public universities were pressured to not include LGBT protections in their antidiscrimination policies as this was not recognized under state law.
 

nighttimer

No Gods No Masters
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 4, 2006
Messages
11,629
Reaction score
4,103
Location
CBUS
Seems like there has been a lot of news about colleges and universities. So the question is simple.
Are colleges and universities tolerant of ALL groups? And I mean all of them, gay, Christian, liberal, conservative, democrat, republican, socialist, capitalist, etc.

I don't know if this is supposed to be a leading question, a trolling question or an intentionally vague question. Maybe it's all of the above. It's more of a simplistic question than a simple one.

I mean there's "lots of news" about colleges and universities all the time. Oregon beat Duke in the NCAA basketball tournament game last night.

That's news. Is that what you mean? :Huh:

When you say are colleges and universities tolerant of ALL groups and you say gay, Christian, liberal, conservative, democrat, republican, socialist, capitalist, etc, does "etc" include followers of Islamic State, Satan worshipers, death metal fans, left-handed lesbians rocking leather n' lace, Black skinheads, Mexicans for Trump and the Delta Tau Chi fraternity?

To get specific answers ask specific questions.

i'm perplexed by your OP. you reference "lots o' news" but provide no link as a jumping off point, just a question that can only be answered naively and with total disregard for the fact that institutions, much less human individuals, are not monolithic or homogeneous, but rather reflect the constituent beliefs and attitudes of many varied people.

where you going with this?

You got questions and the Talking Heads have the answer. :e2headban
 
Last edited:

robjvargas

Rob J. Vargas
Banned
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
6,543
Reaction score
511
Higher Education in the USA... I think they WANT to be open and tolerant. But in the interest of experimentation, they seem to wind up drifting toward policies that achieve exactly the opposite.
 

M.N Thorne

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 28, 2013
Messages
321
Reaction score
12
Location
California
Actually, I will answer your question for my personal viewpoint. I attended different universities and would say that many of them pretend to be tolerant of all groups but many people still hold their own biases. For example, I went to this Californian community college for my real estate salesperson studies and I found flyers for several different extremely right-wing groups in the quad. In addition, that same community college also welcome many people from the Nation of Islam to speak. However, I kept my mouth shut because it is not really my business if racial hate groups want to advertise or recruit on campus. Personally, I always thought that US universities and colleges wanted to pretend to be tolerant because of social pressure or political correctness. :hooray:


Seems like there has been a lot of news about colleges and universities. So the question is simple.
Are colleges and universities tolerant of ALL groups? And I mean all of them, gay, Christian, liberal, conservative, democrat, republican, socialist, capitalist, etc.
 

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Messages
23,124
Reaction score
10,886
Location
Where faults collide
Website
doggedlywriting.blogspot.com
There's a problem that will come up in any environment where there's a blanket statement of tolerance is that assumes goodwill by all: not everyone has good will. Someone will always find a crack and push, push, push until their behavior can't be tolerated. Then said group will jump back and gleefully point out the hypocrisy of those who claimed universal tolerance.

Note, as per the clown college thing. They're not noted for being very tolerant of people who are allergic to bananas.

(I have a bad habit of reading the first post and replying without seeing the way the thread has gone, which means I'm the only person posting a serious answer to some questions).
 
Last edited:

cmi0616

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 14, 2010
Messages
1,802
Reaction score
141
Location
In the aeroplane over the sea
Seems like there has been a lot of news about colleges and universities. So the question is simple.
Are colleges and universities tolerant of ALL groups? And I mean all of them, gay, Christian, liberal, conservative, democrat, republican, socialist, capitalist, etc.

As somebody who currently lives on a college campus (and a very liberal one at that), here's what I would say: for the most part, yes, I think college kids are pretty tolerant, especially where sexuality and gender are concerned, but also where political ideology and religion are concerned, I think. My school is pretty liberal but the Hillel club thrives, as does the interfaith club, as does the Young Republicans club.

That said, the Academy in general in America has a strong liberal bias. It's rare to sit in a humanities course these days without hearing capitalism disparaged at least a couple of times per session. Those who are conservative or Christian, etc. find themselves in the minority, and tolerance isn't the issue so much as giving voice to an unpopular view is the issue. It's a hard thing to do, and I personally do my best to respect somebody when they're brave enough to stick up for values that aren't shared by the rest of the student body.

The editorials I've seen lately are bemoaning that alleged "fact" that we're being coddled. I don't really think people who say that have spent much time on college campuses lately... Sure, there are certain, proud SJWs (a girl in my class last week said she doesn't think rape should ever be depicted in entertainment media, including novels), but most people aren't given over to the "safe space" mentality as it were. Most college kids I know are interested in having frank, difficult, and respectful discussions.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.