Self reflection needed for darker character?

masone · Mar 18, 2016

In my WIP, my MC is going down a dark path, doing things she previously would not have done because she has a new found desire to rise in the ranks, she's become a "take what you want" personality. I'm trying to think about it from the reader's perspective. My MC is fully aware of this change that's occurring inside her, but I don't know about calling specific attention to it with a self reflection scene. Her actions could be construed as just if you ignore her intentions, because the people she's taking down are bad in their own right. I do switch POVs and show just how bad(or evil) these people are(not to absolve my MC, but for plot reasons). So the reader may be rooting for the MC in her doings.

But my MC isn't even aware of some of that evil.

She's doing the things she's doing because she selfishly wants to rise in the ranks.

To simplify things(and I know this isn't canon), think of Tommen killing Joffrey to become king. So basically, Tommen kills Joffrey because he wants to ascend, not because Joffrey is truly evil. Everyone hates that little bastard Joffrey, but can the viewers get behind Tommen despite his intentions? My MC isn't killing or even injuring her competition but she is removing them from the board by doing things that have dire consequences to their home life.

Do I need the self reflection? Pre self reflection, her actions could be taken as fun, she's taking control and not getting stepped on anymore, but I feel as though once I draw attention to it, it brings a certain level of...I don't know...depressing(?) to the story, but at the same time, if I don't have it, there's some character development I think would be missing.

Does the budding Walter White/Frank Underwood need self reflection? Or should I just leave that bit up to the reader(meaning, leave the self-reflection scene out but have the reader reflect on the character and their actions as we have done with Walter and Frank's characters?)

mirandashell · Mar 18, 2016

I personally think a whole scene of the MC reflecting on their actions and the reasons for those actions is likely to be regarded as navel-gazing by a lot of readers. If she does recognise the changes in her personality, have that recognition feed into her next actions and dialogue rather than do a Hamlet.

Jamesaritchie · Mar 18, 2016

All people self-reflect to some extent, but don't do anything because you're trying to put yourself in the reader's shoes. Your shoes are what matter. How do you think the story should be told?

My question is why should readers want to spend time with such an MC? She doesn't sound like an empathetic character, or a likable one. No one is going to root for her, however evil others are, unless she is worthy of empathy.

dondomat · Mar 18, 2016

Self-reflection epiphany can be presented in a quick, precise manner, like in Richard Morgan's sword&sorcery epic The Steel Remains:

"Going to miss you, midweek nights." Bashka mimed moving a chess piece. "I'll probably have to go play Brunt up at the forge. Can just imagine what those conversations are going to be like."

"Yeah, I'll miss," he stumbled on it, old shards of caution, even here, "our conversations, too."

No you wont.

The realization lit up like a crumpled paper tossed into the fire. Bright lick of flame and a twisting, sparkling away that ached briefly, then was gone. Youre not going to miss your nights of chess and chat with Bashka here, Gil, and you know it. And he did know it, knew that in the upriver districts of Trelayne, company twice as sophisticated as the schoolmasters could be had at pretty much any coffeehouse you cared to step into. Knew also that, despite Bashkas kindness and the few topics of common interest they had, the man was not and never really had been his friend, not in any sense that mattered.

It hit him then, for the first time really, through the stubborn ache in his head, that he really was going back. And not just back to bladework that was an old quickening, already touched, like checking coin in your purse, and then tamped away again in the pulse of his blood. That wasn't it. More than that, he was going back to the brawling, bargaining human sprawl of Trelayne and all it meant. Back into the heated womb of his youth, back to the hothouse dilettante climate that had bred and then sickened him. Back to a part of himself hed thought long rooted out and burned in the charnel days of the war.

Guess not, Gil.

He made his farewells to the schoolmaster, clowned his way out with a wink at the bedroom door, got away as fast as he decently could.

...and any professional writer can do a variation of this without making it "navel gazing".

The knowledge can also be suppressed and pop up indirectly; in dreams, in internal arguments.

Further, there are the bodily reactions: In Ken Follett's The Eye of the Needle the German spy vomits and hates himself for a minute after murdering someone, then moves on. In Dean Koontz's From the Corner of His Eye the psychopath murderer consciously feels awesome, but his body reacts with a new psychosomatic illness after every murder.

Also, making the reader "care about the character" isn't that hard. Occasionally show "the human side"--like feeling bad for a puppy or suddenly remembering childhood and the reader wipes away a drama tear.

Especially if it's dramatic behavior motivation like flashbacks to some traumatic event.

It doesn't even have to be a memory of "No, Daddy, no" or "you killed my father", you can simply imply it by analogy. For example she can see a girl about to be defiled by a few assholes, and intervene and face them down, and when the girl is grateful she gives her a slap and scolds her for being weak and stupid and then once alone shakes and vomits--in this example the reader connects the dots and wipes away a drama tear.

Again, the motivation can be shown in memory, in dialogue, in flashback, or be implied, even when it's unconscious. It can even be verbalized by a different character as an explanation, or a comforting, or as an attack.

Self-reflection can be summarized in an epiphany moment, or mentioned at a filtered distance as narration, or spoon-fed in tiny bursts over a period of time, or any way you like it.

portugueseninja · Mar 25, 2016

Jamesaritchie said:
My question is why should readers want to spend time with such an MC? She doesn't sound like an empathetic character, or a likable one. No one is going to root for her, however evil others are, unless she is worthy of empathy.

This is what I was thinking. Maybe the reflection is what's needed to make her more realistic and somewhat likeable?

Walter White came to his dark path because he was trying to do the right thing, and then later he was overcome by the evilness. But even then, he was so intriguing that we stayed with him even though we all thought he was horrible. So I guess if you can set your character up to be sympathetic and then make her journey down the dark path stay interesting, then you can do it. But I wouldn't just leave it up to the reader to fill in the blanks regarding her motives. If the character is changing, I think you should show the process of that somehow.

Jamesaritchie · Mar 25, 2016

portugueseninja said:
This is what I was thinking. Maybe the reflection is what's needed to make her more realistic and somewhat likeable?

Walter White came to his dark path because he was trying to do the right thing, and then later he was overcome by the evilness. But even then, he was so intriguing that we stayed with him even though we all thought he was horrible. So I guess if you can set your character up to be sympathetic and then make her journey down the dark path stay interesting, then you can do it. But I wouldn't just leave it up to the reader to fill in the blanks regarding her motives. If the character is changing, I think you should show the process of that somehow.

That could work. Some redemption at the end would help, too. With a character like this, readers more or less expect either a level or redemption, or a level of punishment.

lianna williamson · Mar 25, 2016

portugueseninja said:
Walter White came to his dark path because he was trying to do the right thing, and then later he was overcome by the evilness. But even then, he was so intriguing that we stayed with him even though we all thought he was horrible.

And we had Jesse to root for. The inarticulate, directionless meth addict becoming the moral center of the show while the upstanding public school teacher slips into villainy was part of what made that scenario work. If your character is going down a dark path with little self-reflection or remorse, is there another major character to pick up the moral slack?

L. OBrien · Mar 25, 2016

masone said:
To simplify things(and I know this isn't canon), think of Tommen killing Joffrey to become king. So basically, Tommen kills Joffrey because he wants to ascend, not because Joffrey is truly evil. Everyone hates that little bastard Joffrey, but can the viewers get behind Tommen despite his intentions?

No matter how despicable Joffrey is, having him killed off in an unscrupulous way just sets up Tommen as a even bigger villain. If he'd had to slaughter and backstab his way up the hierarchy, by the time that he got to the top it would be pretty hard to imagine that he would suddenly turn around and become a just ruler. In fact, I'd expect him to be even less suited for power than the people he'd deposed.

And I agree with a few of the other posters that self reflection scenes tend to drag on. I don't think your character needs a whole scene to take a long walk and think about what she's done. A few moments of self-awareness and a casual, undramatic acknowledgement that she isn't the good guy anymore are probably enough, and they can be woven into the story without interrupting it, the way that a reflection scene would.

That said, I think some form of self-awareness must be present, because there are few things that make a character more unlikable than when the narrator continues to treat them as a hero in spite of their obviously evil actions.