Love at first sight, a scientist's perspective

Maybe this doesn't belong here.

I feel like it's just going to restart an argument.

If you want to talk about love at first sight in a general sense, this might be better suited to the AW Roundtable, or to the Office Party.

JMO, not a mod.

Since I haven't watched the episode, is there an article or scientific study that has been done on this? What exactly is there to discuss?

The whole love concept thing (especially the love at first sight thing) is such an abstract, subjective, personal thing and people interpret that concept in various ways, so this topic may be tough to discuss, especially since we just had a thread on a similar theme (love at first sight) that just became...tense and very contentious...

Some people believe in love at first sight, others don't, so...

Was there a study done or something? Because, otherwise, this thread will be about the very personal and subjective topic of whether people believe in love at first sight and become a rehash of that last thread--which was not very fun or productive..

ETA: Perhaps if there was more details about the theory or a study was linked to? (Especially for those of us who haven't watched this show/episode.)

Seems like a reasonable topic for the romance forum if we change the question:

In one of your stories have you had a character who fell in love at first sight? How did that work?

Help, I want to depict a character who falls in love at first sight. How do I do this?

I have a character who falls in love at first sight, but my story has holes. Help!

Or something similar.

As for science, I found a few videos. The Science Behind Love at First Sight by DNews. Note the related videos popping up about the science of love. Does Love at First Sight Exist? by NIL. And finally, Love at First Sight - Science on the Web #94 by HowStuffWorks. This last one mentioned Dr. Fisher's study, which I found here in its full form (not just the abstract). Unfortunately I didn't find Startalk so I can't link to that episode.


In my own WIP, which takes place in the present day, my heroine is between her junior and senior years in high school, and mid-story she turns 17. I need the reader to see her as a strong-willed young woman who once she decides what who she wants, she goes for it him. No hesitation. No second thoughts.

Her great-grandmother and mother were that way too. They are native Americans (first nations if you're Canadian) and their people have a certain history about marriage that lasted into the first few decades of the 20th century.

In 1939 the heroine's great-grandfather was 18, newly graduated from boarding school, and about to start a decent-paying job in the oil fields, when he and his buddy drove up to Alberta to participate in a Sun Dance. Great-grandmother was 12 and feeling her oats when she spied this handsome young man. Her first thought was, That's the man for me. I'm going to marry him. She pursued, and by the end of the week he found himself negotiating a bride price with her father. Horses bought and delivered, girl and her belongings prepared, the next summer after Sun Dance great-grandfather and his 13-year-old bride returned to Montana where they lived a long life together. (The possible hole in this story is how an 18-year-old guy could fall for a preteen--except tradition, and he was ready for a wife. Note, idea taken from The Ways of My Grandmothers by Beverly Hungry Wolf; one of the women interviewed married at 9 to a man who was 18. Little detail was given, but it seem as if the parents cooked up the union and coming home to find a 9-year-old bride waiting for him may have been a surprise for the young man.)

Grandmother was a "free spirit," ran away from home, and only showed up long enough one spring to give birth before she disappeared for good. Leaving her parents to raise the little girl. (Don't need grandmother for this story, so I gloss over her backstory. Not important.)

A few months after her 15th birthday my heroine's mother was running some errand when she spied the most attractive man. Yeah, he was older, quite a bit older, but there was something mysterious and intriguing about him. She soon discovered he was a professional gambler and on the reservation to take in the sights, unwind, and relax for a couple of weeks. Although white, he was a nomad and lived by his wits, much as her people had in earlier centuries. Maybe it wasn't love at first sight, but the attraction grew quickly and he stayed past his original plan. The girl even took him home to meet great-grandmother, who forbade the relationship. The guy ran out of time and had to leave, but arranged for a forged birth certificate that showed the girl's birth-year as being 3 years prior to actual. He then returned, met her in secret, they married at the county seat before driving to Vegas. My heroine was born about a year later and grew up in hotels and casinos, home-schooled by her mom. (At 35 and having lived alone all his adult life, the heroine's dad was ready for a woman in his life--if she was the right one. Mom was the right one.)

These ancestral experiences make my heroine who she is. The only thing I can add is, "Kids, don't try this at home."

Yeah...... speaking as someone who has experienced it, I'm staying out of this. The last one led to nastiness.

mirandashell said:

Yeah...... speaking as someone who has experienced it, I'm staying out of this. The last one led to nastiness.

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So I see. Why some (and I didn't read closely enough to figure out who) feel it necessary to insult each other to the point of destroying it for all, is a mystery. Hopefully cooler heads will prevail.

@ScottyDM- The only problem I have with your story is that I wouldn't buy that there was anything "ancestral" about it or even all that unusual. It sounds to me like the somewhat typical fates of women in poor/dysfunctional/backward/misogynistic societies or families. Less fortunate girls often have their adult life course set as wife/mother before they are old enough to understand the long term implications of it or attain the education or job skills necessary to have any other options. It's because they don't have anyone looking out for them. So, I'd see it as saying something about the world they live in, rather than about any personal character trait of the women themselves.

Now if the women in the family fell for much younger guys, for example, that would shake it up and be something different imo.

Also, when people are very young, I think it's typical for them to be gobsmacked by attractions to others. Raging hormones and lack of prior frame of reference with romantic relationships can easily overwhelm them.

In other words, I don't think any background or personality reason about why she would fall head over heels is necessary or really believable. Just being seventeen is reason enough. I'd just have her do it, no explanation necessary.

morngnstar said:

I like this backstory. I think it gives a good explanation for why she might have an impulsive personality and not have a plan to settle down.

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My heroine's mother married young in a place and age when it was not only unacceptable, but illegal. I did a bit of research and the couple would need a forged birth certificate, and they'd need to stay out of her family's clutches (and probably away from Montana) until she turned 18. A relative could get the marriage annulled, but once the younger partner turns 18 then the marriage is legal.

My heroine's grandmother slept around, got pregnant, then dumped the newborn on her parents and took off.

My heroine's great-grandmother was at the tail-end of an age when girls married young, typically through an arranged marriage, and with an exchange of gifts between families. I went great-grandmother because I wanted her a bit older and wiser--in her 80s. So I skipped a generation. She doesn't have to be 12. She could be 13. I want my heroine's great-grandmother to be in control, and the be the pursuer rather than passive.

Having grownup off-reservation my heroine very much feels like an outsider. She loves Montana and the reservation (one of the few rich in resources, beauty, and plenty of space), but financial prospects sort of suck (2008). So rather than daydream about her future husband, she daydreams about ways to make money once she graduates. She doesn't want to move away or go on government assistance. She does want to settle down, but her "plan 1.0" doesn't include a husband.

morngnstar said:

One way you could maybe make it make sense is if the little girl needs to get married. Maybe her father can't take care of her any more...

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In the story from The Ways of My Grandmothers the "girl" was remembering 40 or so years into the past, and what she recalled from when she was 9. Her family was poor and couldn't afford to keep her, so her mother said she was to marry a guy who had good prospects because he'd recently graduated boarding school, and he was kind and likely to treat her well. When she got to her new home it was his little sister (same age) who befriended her and gave her some dolls and other toys. There was zero elaboration on what happened between the new couple. Normally (and with an older bride) the bride's family provides a new lodge (tipi) and the girl is well practiced in how to set it up. Not in this case, and so they may have spent some time living in his family's lodge with mom, dad, and at least that one sibling.

Fruitbat said:

@ScottyDM- The only problem I have with your story is that I wouldn't buy that there was anything "ancestral" about it or even all that unusual. ... So, I'd see it as saying something about the world they live in, rather than about any personal character trait of the women themselves.

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A better word might be "customary," at least that's the heroine's take on things. "The women of my family have always been quick to recognize a good man, and just as quick to act on it."

Fruitbat said:

Now if the women in the family fell for much younger guys, for example, that would shake it up and be something different imo.

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Dang, you know my subplot then. The heroine's widowed mom falls for a fellow 12 years her junior, the son of mom's best friend, which throws everyone into a tizzy.

Fruitbat said:

Just being seventeen is reason enough. I'd just have her do it, no explanation necessary.

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It's a paranormal, and the hero (a rancher's son) was transformed into wolf against his will by his demon possessed brother. In the 6 or 7 weeks leading to The Big Love scene he's fallen completely in love with the heroine. And she's fallen in love with his gentleness and personality. After he's forced to leave the reservation she realizes her love runs deeper--which thoroughly squicks her out. He comes back in time for Act III, she's thrilled, and they end up in a hunter's cabin while fleeing from his homicidal brother. The hero transforms into a man (a rather pleasant surprise for the heroine) and after about 15 minutes of talking she declares her love for him, and insists it's their wedding night. She's not playing around.

In some ways that's kinda fast. But she recognizes a good man and she's quick to act on that.

I have a question for ya'll that's been on my mind.

In the previous thread, we discussed how there's different definitions of love. Some people seem to feel that love is an automatic emotion, much like fear. To be honest, I don't totally grasp that point of view.

Because from my point of view, love and infatuation are the same "feeling." It's just that love is stable, enduring, and based in reality. Whereas infatuation is rapid, fallible, and based in fantasy. So if love is just an automatic emotion, how do you differentiate between love and infatuation? Or are they the same thing?

Not trying to prove anyone wrong here, just interested in different points of view.

I haven't fallen in love (yet?), but I wonder if it's like first impressions?

There have been a few times when the moment I first met a classmate, I had a good "vibe" feeling and I felt like I could be friendly with them, even if I barely knew them (and we did end up friends or in a friendly relationship). There were a few times where I felt a bad "vibe" from someone, and it sometimes turns out my first instinct was correct.

Maybe it's like that with some people in regards to romantic relationships? (I've never been in a romantic relationship thus far in my life).

Sorry if I was unclear. I'm not asking what love at first sight is. I'm asking what the difference between love and infatuation is.

I'd define love as a feeling that drives one to action -- a person feels love-as-in-the-noun, so they love-as-in-the-verb.

Admittedly I'm not really a romance reader...

I would say "infatuation" is when you don't know that person very well but fill in the gaps with your imagination. And "love" is when you've known them long enough for those gaps to be filled but you still feel the same. I know I read something like that somewhere but I can't find the quote now.

Fruitbat said:

I would say "infatuation" is when you don't know that person very well but fill in the gaps with your imagination. And "love" is when you've known them long enough for those gaps to be filled but you still feel the same. I know I read something like that somewhere but I can't find the quote now.

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Ooh, I like this, Fruitbat!

Yeah, I think of infatuation as like a crush on an idealized version of a person, while love is more of an enduring feeling towards a person, embracing the person's "true self", flaws and all.

Samsonet said:

I'd define love as a feeling that drives one to action -- a person feels love-as-in-the-noun, so they love-as-in-the-verb.

Admittedly I'm not really a romance reader...

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Fruitbat said:

I would say "infatuation" is when you don't know that person very well but fill in the gaps with your imagination. And "love" is when you've known them long enough for those gaps to be filled but you still feel the same. I know I read something like that somewhere but I can't find the quote now.

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bunny-gypsy said:

Ooh, I like this, Fruitbat!

Yeah, I think of infatuation as like a crush on an idealized version of a person, while love is more of an enduring feeling towards a person, embracing the person's "true self", flaws and all.

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Sorry, I just noticed these. I haven't been hanging around much. I'm totally on board with that definition. Thanks for answering.

My favorite singer (see below) quoted somebody he didn't name, and said he liked the concept: "Love is a friendship on fire."

I think infatuation happens to most people at least once. Love can grow out of infatuation, but they're not the same things in the same way as a plant seed is not the fully-grown, fruit-bearing tree.

Another quote: "That's passion, my dear Harriet, a less hardy plant." -- Victoria Holt, Menfreya in the Morning

Viridian said:

So if love is just an automatic emotion, how do you differentiate between love and infatuation? Or are they the same thing?

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The issue I run into is that love is generally understood as a single, end-state. If we're talking about a range of emotions, love would be on the far right - something finite, achievable. But I think that's actually really wrong. Love doesn't just exist. Love changes and grows. Love would have to be enormously powerful if it was stangnant, because if you're talking a marriage context, where you're spending your life with someone, you're going to feel negative emotions on some kind of periodic basis (annoyance, anger, frustration, etc.), perhaps infrequently, but they all detract from "love". If love didn't change, or grow, or become more, than eventually those negatives would erode it entirely. And if we accept that people stay in long-term monogamous relationships out of love, then it would make sense that love develops over time.

That being said, when you talk about "love at first sight" - I think it's a viable form of love. It's an early form, an underdeveloped form. It could blossom into a stronger love over time, or it could erode quickly once you get beyond the "first sight" but I don't think "love at first sight" can ever possibly be a love that is so powerful that it endures forever. If it doesn't grow into something more, it will erode.

Infatuation I don't think about as love. I think of it more as a combination of emotions - interest, intruige, attraction, like, and when you boil them together you get a simmering obsession. Could it turn into love? Absolutely. But I don't think it starts there.


Anyway, this is a little rambly, not sure if it makes sense - but that's how I think about it.