#Orangegate

Lyv · Mar 6, 2016

#Orangegate? Whole Foods' pre-peeled oranges spark Twitter backlash

Whole Foods prides itself as a grocery store that seeks "the finest natural and organic foods available," so one consumer was a little surprised when she stumbled upon peeled oranges stored in plastic and marketed as fresh produce.Nathalie Gordon took a picture on Thursday and tweeted it out with the sarcastic message, “If only nature would find a way to cover these oranges so we didn’t need to waste so much plastic on them.”
Twitter users were quick to weigh in with the hashtag #orangegate. Gordon's tweet has been retweeted more than 89,000 times, which was significant enough for Whole Foods to issue an apology.
“Definitely our mistake. These have been pulled. We hear you, and we will leave them in their natural packaging: the peel,” the store tweeted Thursday.

Yep, they look ridiculous. The public weighed in about all the lazy, entitled people who don't even want to peel their own oranges. But it also sparked a discussion about accessibility and ableism.

I first saw it in replies to the friend who posted it on Facebook. She thought, as most did, that this was ridiculous. But some of her friends pointed out that they agreed the packaging was excessive, maybe, but that they would love to have those available as they can't peel oranges. I can't. Every day, my husband and I try to anticipate everything I'll need in a day, and he opens packages, gets the next jar of peanut butter out of the pantry when the open one is low, things like that. But he's one man. He has a lot to do take care of me, so we do sometimes rely on convenience products. I wouldn't buy those oranges, because of all the plastic (I feel guilty about all the waste associated with the medical supplies I need), but with different packaging, I'd be all over those.

This is a thoughtful piece that rang true to me:

When Accessibility Gets Labelled Wasteful

The original tweet has been shared over 70,000 times. Whole Foods has apparently agreed to remove the prepeeled oranges from their stores. Environmentalists and those who hate laziness rejoice!

The problem is that this discourse completely ignores how preprepared food impacts people with disabilities. The most common complaints about the sale of these oranges is either the wastefulness of the additional packaging (which is true but somewhat misdirected as I’ll discuss later) or that anyone who buys this must be incomprehensibly lazy.

As a person with limited hand dexterity, I look at this and see an easier way to eat healthy food. I actively avoid eating oranges, not because I dislike them (they are definitely tasty) but because I have so much difficulty peeling them. Any attempt to peel an orange is likely to result in an unappetizing mess because I’ve squeezed the orange to hard while trying to maneuver it for peel removal.

The author addresses some of the arguments against the oranges and that are often used against accommodations in general, including, "You all got along without them this long," and "but they will cost more." I'm not doing it justice. It's not long as it's a good read. There are a lot of pieces on #orangegate, and the discussion has had some high and low points but it's happening, which pleases me.

I am always the one saying that 99.9999% of people are amazing and thoughtful and compassionate and my physical status lets me see that in a way most people don't. But some of the same people who slow down so they just happen to reach the door the same time as me so they open the door--they aren't just opening the door; they're being extraordinarily thoughtful about how they do it--will see those oranges as a joke, won't think twice before leaving a shopping cart in the crosshatches next to a handicapped parking spot or not pushing chairs in at a cafe. So many things like that, and in those cases it's lack of awareness.

But sometimes it's "you disabled ruin everything." When I walk though Beacon Hill in Boston, I feel less welcome since reading some of the comments made during the fight over handicapped ramps and curb cuts in that neighborhood. It's not just the fight, but the attitude that we already get so much, why should we get to ruin their neighborhood. It got pretty ugly. There's a darling little wine and cheese shop near me. I'm an idiot when it comes to picking wines, so I used to love going there for what I trusted was a good bottle or five. One day was so cold, there weren't many passersby so as I tried to open the heavy, thick wood door, reaching across my walker, I was getting progressively horizontal (at which point someone usually rescues me), which for some reason, was cracking me up. I was in a great mood. Buying wine for a dinner party I was feeling good enough to have! The owner opened the door for me, and I was smiling and happy and she said, "I'm just glad there aren't any ordinances here that I have to get rid of my beautiful door." My smile slipped a notch, but I said, "It's a beautiful door." She said, "Yes, and there are all these rules and someday, I bet I'm going to have to get rid of that door." She was angry. I said, "I can imagine how you'd feel, but those rules do help people like me." She glared and said, "Oh, for...I opened the door for you" and flounced off. I hadn't complained, but she made sure I knew people like me ruin things and are coming for her door.

So, obviously, to me the #orangegate is a broader discussion, but any thoughts about the peeled oranges? The kind of activism that removes them? Ableist issues?

BenPanced · Mar 6, 2016

I don't hear anybody complaining about the PLASTIC tubs of pre-peeled and/or chopped strawberries, pineapple, mango, cantaloupe, watermelon, etc., which would have been next to the pre-peeled oranges wrapped in PLASTIC. Does it make a difference that the PLASTIC used to wrap the oranges is not recyclable and the PLASTIC tubs used for the other fruit is? Because people are going to throw stuff out, anyway. Because PLASTIC.

And don't get me started on "-gate".

kuwisdelu · Mar 6, 2016

Lyv said:
So, obviously, to me the #orangegate is a broader discussion, but any thoughts about the peeled oranges? The kind of activism that removes them? Ableist issues?

It's a shame that people are happy to be sympathetic and supportive when it's of minimal effort to them. They take a few moments out of their day to open a door and pat themselves on the back for being a good person. But once they actually have to make a consistent effort or actually change the way they approach the world, it's too much, and the people with whom they once sympathized are suddenly social justice warriors ruining the world with political correctness.

As for the oranges, I have nothing to say. There's enough wastefulness in packaging already. A few peeled oranges aren't hurting anyone. I'd buy them myself. I hate peeling oranges.

Don · Mar 6, 2016

How about if people who don't want to buy pre-peeled oranges in plastic bags don't buy pre-peeled oranges in plastic bags and let others decide if they want to do so or not? If there are people who want to buy pre-peeled oranges in plastic bags, they will, and if not, Whole Foods will realize they misread the market and quit trying to sell pre-peeled oranges in plastic bags.

Why is it any body else's concern except those who offer the items for sale and those who decide they're willing to pay the price?

People must have awfully dull lives if the best thing they can find to do with their time is get indignant about pre-peeled oranges being sold in plastic bags.

Wait 'till Trump gets a load of this and starts using it in his stump speeches about "political correctness." It's probably worth a few thousand votes.

Vince524 · Mar 6, 2016

Don said:
Wait 'till Trump gets a load of this and starts using it in his stump speeches about "political correctness." It's probably worth a few thousand votes.

I thought Trump was a pre peeled orange?

But beyond that, everything else you said.

Liosse de Velishaf · Mar 6, 2016

This is dumb. Whole Foods can sell whatever they want, and if people don't want it, don't buy it.

I hadn't considered the disability issue, but that's also a good point.

MarkEsq · Mar 6, 2016

Vince524 said:
I thought Trump was a pre peeled orange?

But beyond that, everything else you said.

Yeah, I almost didn't click on this thread, thinking, "Lord, another one about Trump."

frimble3 · Mar 6, 2016

I'm with Don on this, let the peeled-orange fanciers buy the peeled oranges, the unpeeled oranges buy the unpeeled, and let the store decide if it's worth it. Because BenPanced is exactly right, there are a lot of other prepared fruits and vegetables out there. If it helps those people who are unable to peel their own oranges, this is a simple way of letting them enjoy the same healthy fruit that the rest of us don't think twice about eating.
Besides, I'll bet Whole Foods is more likely to recycle their food waste than many of their customers, so it's probably 50/50 as to the damage/benefit to the environment.

AND WHAT A BLESSED, HAPPY DAY THAT THERE IS SO LITTLE GOING ON IN THE WORLD THAT THIS IS THE BIG KERFUFFLE ON TWITTER!

Cyia · Mar 6, 2016

Don said:
How about if people who don't want to buy pre-peeled oranges in plastic bags don't buy pre-peeled oranges in plastic bags and let others decide if they want to do so or not? If there are people who want to buy pre-peeled oranges in plastic bags, they will, and if not, Whole Foods will realize they misread the market and quit trying to sell pre-peeled oranges in plastic bags.

But that might lead people to think they can make their own choices, or that they're actually qualified to know what works for their own situation and what doesn't. What are you, some kind of anarchist? :sarcasm

(normally, I would assume the sarcasm is obvious, but this thread scares me.)

c.e.lawson · Mar 6, 2016

Boo to Whole Foods for caving in so quickly to internet bullies. Sometimes progressives can look a lot like fascists.

rugcat · Mar 6, 2016

c.e.lawson said:
Boo to Whole Foods for caving in so quickly to internet bullies. Sometimes progressives can look a lot like fascists.

Or, one could view it as listening to what their customers want. You know, like a successful business.

Whole Foods promotes their brand as eco-friendly, sustainable food, an alternative to mass-produced factory produce and foodstuffs. Using a marketing tactic which results in more non-biodegradable plastic being introduced into the environment runs counter to how they wish to be perceived by their customers.

Nobody made them stop doing this. They made a business decision. And yeah, the less plastic the better, Imo.

c.e.lawson · Mar 6, 2016

rugcat said:
Or, one could view it as listening to what their customers want. You know, like a successful business.

Whole Foods promotes their brand as eco-friendly, sustainable food, an alternative to mass-produced factory produce and foodstuffs. Using a marketing tactic which results in more non-biodegradable plastic being introduced into the environment runs counter to how they wish to be perceived by their customers.

Nobody made them stop doing this. They made a business decision. And yeah, the less plastic the better, Imo.

I think a reasoned and measured response from Whole Paycheck about their sensitivity to those who might need convenience foods and then seeing how this product sells might be a better business decision than immediately caving in to Twitter. As a rehabilitation physician, my daily work is to help people with functional disabilities be more independent and enjoy the highest quality of life possible. Peeling a damn orange would be impossible for a high percentage of my patients. My loyalty is with them over Twitter bullies who should have better things to do with their time. And then there's the free market aspect of things...

kikazaru · Mar 6, 2016

I'm sure the people who complained didn't think of people who are disabled, it would never have occurred to me until it was pointed out and if it helps people who have difficulty with such things then it's worthwhile. While I try to be eco-conscious, when grocery shopping it never occurs to me to not put my produce in the plastic bags provided for that purpose. What is the difference between buying oranges that are already peeled in plastic and putting the produce you've selected into plastic bags yourself? Plastic is plastic.

You can buy biodegradable plastic so maybe that would be something for them to consider.

Lyv · Mar 6, 2016

c.e.lawson said:
Sometimes progressives can look a lot like fascists.

How much packaging does it take to wrap a partisan ax?

Hey, I'd rather have progressives, if #orangegate was limited to them, stop Whole Foods from peeling oranges than Republicans legislators try to take ACA away. I know which affects my quality of life more. (hint: it's the latter).

I'll be back to thread in after a cool-down.

BenPanced · Mar 6, 2016

kikazaru said:
You can buy biodegradable plastic so maybe that would be something for them to consider.

They probably do, considering how many meat products they sell in the refrigerator cases, next to the butcher counter, that are wrapped in some form or another of plastic. The produce bags they offer next to the displays are a recycled or recyclable form of plastic, as are the tubs for peeled and chopped fruits and the bottles for the juices squeezed on site. The person who made the initial tweet obviously couldn't see the rest of the products on display and only focused her outrage on the peeled oranges.

rugcat · Mar 6, 2016

c.e.lawson said:
As a rehabilitation physician, my daily work is to help people with functional disabilities be more independent and enjoy the highest quality of life possible. Peeling a damn orange would be impossible for a high percentage of my patients. My loyalty is with them over Twitter bullies who should have better things to do with their time. And then there's the free market aspect of things...

That's a valid point. But I very much doubt that it even crossed the mind of the marketers at Whole Foods. They saw an opportunity to make extra money by catering to their well-heeled customers who couldn't be bothered to peel an orange.

I think it's a stupid and wasteful things to do. I also think the outrage on Twitter is absurd.

But surely I don't need to remind you that what you're seeing is the free market in action. When the government steps in and tells Whole Foods they can't offer peeled oranges, then you and I might agree on something.

Xelebes · Mar 6, 2016

kuwisdelu said:
It's a shame that people are happy to be sympathetic and supportive when it's of minimal effort to them.

On one hand, people will complain whenever anything causes them to expend some effort. It's what humans do. On the other hand, when they complain, they are heaping it on the one they are trying to help. Yeah, it's annoying.

Cramp · Mar 6, 2016

I'm a bit against the notion that if people don't want ecologically wasteful products they should just not buy them. I think we've clearly seen that the market is not going to sort out the destruction of the environment - individuals simply aren't very good (or don't have the spare time/energy/resources to action) at considering their purchases in the context of the whole economy of equally individual consumers acting.

c.e.lawson · Mar 6, 2016

Lyv - if only orangegate were the sole example. Also, just a friendly reminder AW has an ignore button. (I'm not being sarcastic) my posts do seem to get you angry

rugcat - I don't agree this is an example of free market. I think the Twitter sample is such a small percentage of Whole Foods shoppers, they really haven't yet let the market decide. Not saying it wouldn't be the same result. But this was damage control before we even knew what the damage would be. And how many other products there are packaged in plastic?

Don · Mar 6, 2016

Cyia said:
What are you, some kind of anarchist?

Yes.

Lyv · Mar 6, 2016

I definitely care about packaging and waste, so I don't know that I would have been able to justify buying those oranges even if they were available. I pay attention to packaging (my husband and I were at the pet store yesterday and chose one item over another because of that). But it's the lack of awareness that I find interesting here. It simply doesn't enter many people's minds that it's not just lazy, spoiled people with too much money buying these sorts of items. Some comments have been ugly regardless, but it's nice to see that some people said they'd simply never thought about it.

c.e.lawson said:
my posts do seem to get you angry

I haven't been around for months and I'm not that memorable when I am. But that one, yeah, it did. Well, more annoyed than angry. Sure, progressives are more apt to care about the environment, but then there are the "you [insert group] get too much already/you lazy, entitled takers..." I won't make this about this group versus that group, because that's part of the problem, frankly.

Cereus · Mar 6, 2016

Lyv said:
will see those oranges as a joke

I just thought it was Whole Foods being... Whole Foods.

won't think twice before leaving a shopping cart in the crosshatches next to a handicapped parking spot

I have met many people who think those disability parking certificates are given mostly to morbidly obese people fwiw. I don't agree with being insensitive due to hating fat people. But. I do know people who think handicap spots are often a license to be lazy. I am sorry that kind of thinking has a negative impact on your life.

But sometimes it's "you disabled ruin everything." When I walk though Beacon Hill in Boston, I feel less welcome since reading some of the comments made during the fight over handicapped ramps and curb cuts in that neighborhood. It's not just the fight, but the attitude that we already get so much, why should we get to ruin their neighborhood. It got pretty ugly. There's a darling little wine and cheese shop near me. I'm an idiot when it comes to picking wines, so I used to love going there for what I trusted was a good bottle or five. One day was so cold, there weren't many passersby so as I tried to open the heavy, thick wood door, reaching across my walker, I was getting progressively horizontal (at which point someone usually rescues me), which for some reason, was cracking me up. I was in a great mood. Buying wine for a dinner party I was feeling good enough to have! The owner opened the door for me, and I was smiling and happy and she said, "I'm just glad there aren't any ordinances here that I have to get rid of my beautiful door." My smile slipped a notch, but I said, "It's a beautiful door." She said, "Yes, and there are all these rules and someday, I bet I'm going to have to get rid of that door." She was angry. I said, "I can imagine how you'd feel, but those rules do help people like me." She glared and said, "Oh, for...I opened the door for you" and flounced off. I hadn't complained, but she made sure I knew people like me ruin things and are coming for her door.

Selfish and disgusting.

Don said:
How about if people who don't want to buy pre-peeled oranges in plastic bags don't buy pre-peeled oranges in plastic bags and let others decide if they want to do so or not? If there are people who want to buy pre-peeled oranges in plastic bags, they will, and if not, Whole Foods will realize they misread the market and quit trying to sell pre-peeled oranges in plastic bags.

Why is it any body else's concern except those who offer the items for sale and those who decide they're willing to pay the price?

People must have awfully dull lives if the best thing they can find to do with their time is get indignant about pre-peeled oranges being sold in plastic bags.

Wait 'till Trump gets a load of this and starts using it in his stump speeches about "political correctness." It's probably worth a few thousand votes.

Why is it your concern what people concern themselves with? In your libertarian utopia, is there no room for free speech?

Roxxsmom · Mar 6, 2016

I'm guessing a large, successful company like whole foods have marketing departments whose job it is to decide which products help and which hurt their bottom line. Mistakes get made sometimes, but I'm guessing their decision about the oranges was based on their perceived bottom line.

FWIW, I find it ironic that these stores (TJs, Whole Foods etc) that push the environmentally friendly, sustainable image sell produce that's much more heavily packaged, on average, than the stuff one buys at a regular grocery store. I wonder how much of this plastic ends up in the gyre, killing birds, marine mammals, and sea turtles and breaks down into toxic sludge. But that's the business model that works for them overall. I assume it reduces food waste and spoilage and attracts customers overall.

I also think it is rather odd that oranges are what pushed some customers into rebellion, given how heavily packages the rest of their produce is.

I really don't know what people can do to make their feelings known besides talk about them on social media, boycott, complain and so on. If expressing one's views about something is bullying, then our entire economic and political system is founded on bullying.

Lyv · Mar 6, 2016

Roxxsmom said:
I really don't know what people can do to make their feelings known besides talk about them on social media, boycott, complain and so on. If expressing one's views about something is bullying, then our entire economic and political system is founded on bullying.

I agree. While I find it unfortunate that there is lack of awareness sometimes, I support the impulse to speak up and try to effect change. I just popped into Facebook and another friend posted the blog entry I linked. One of her friends asked why don't we just eat oranges in juice, so now there's a discussion on nutrition. I choose even my cut fruit in natural juice with concern to packaging. I'd love those little individual cups of pears, etc, but won't buy them because of the plastic.

Don · Mar 6, 2016

Cereus said:
Why is it your concern what people concern themselves with? In your libertarian utopia, is there no room for free speech?

Certainly, there's room for free speech. I didn't say anything about censoring their opinion, did I? But I also have free speech, including the freedom to call someone a busybody with delusions of their own self-importance and an exceedingly dull life if I think the label's appropriate. Free speech means everyone's entitled to their opinion... including those who think someone else's opinion is infantile and self-absorbed.

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