How difficult is it to start an editing/ghostwriting business?

Galumph_Triumph

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I'm a graduate student and am considering using my critical writing/reading skills as a means of generating additional income during the summers. My own mother started an editing business last year, and was overwhelmed by the work she got. However, she is in Laguna Beach and networks with many rich people due to her employment in an art gallery there. I don't socialize/network nearly as much as her due to my schooling.

I'm guessing editors/ghostwriters are a dime a dozen. I'm just wondering if anyone here picks up odd jobs now and again, and if it's worth your time, how you advertise your services, etc. How would I go about advertising myself, given that I'm kind of limited in my ability to network face to face?
 

Kerosene

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Why don't you just work under your mother? Use her as the network and just act as her understudy for smaller works which she can oversee and verify.

With freelance editing, what sells you is either your prior experience with professional editing or a large portfolio (possibly with reviews on sites like Upwork and Peopleperhour). I have a few friends, who out of their MFA programs, spend a year or so doing cheap/practically free work so they could get enough connections, positive feedback, and a respectable portfolio. Once they had a good network and were getting too many offers to handle, they started raising their rates. Look on Updesk, and those folks asking $30+ per hour for editing are respected editors on the site, or insane. The people trying to work up to them are asking for a few bucks an hour, and some of them aren't even rated well. It's all about creating trust. It takes time, and if you're just dedicated summers to it, it might be better seeking something else to profit from.
 
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Galumph_Triumph

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This is good advice, thank you. I would work under her but she just got hired to do similar work for a company, so she's kind of letting her side business go.
 

cornflake

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Anyone can advertise anything. As you don't seem to have qualifications, experience, training, or anything else relevant to the business, I can't see what'd differentiate you from the gazillion other people fitting that description who advertise their services.
 

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I know a few ways to get started:

1) Start an e-zine where you publish short stories, short personal non-fiction, and perhaps poetry. List it on Submission Grinder so it gets a decent amount of traffic. Make a tab on it where you offer editing for X amount per word, per 250 words, or whatever. Make it clear that it does not include accepting the work for publication although you will accept rejected work for paid editing. (Don't forget to set up a Paypal account for accepting payments, if you don't have one already). This can be very fun and will also help your own writing to have regular access to a slushpile. You'll become very familiar with what makes a submission jump out far above the others and what makes an editor roll their eyes when they see it yet again.

2) Start a website just for your editing business. Link it to your e-zine site, if you decide to start one. When you do the edits above and elsewhere, request testimonials from your customers and permission to publish them on your editing site (by their real name or a pen name or whatever they prefer). Those count when people are looking for someone to hire.

3) Go on Amazon and look for really terrible self-published books that have very low sales rankings. If you can find a way to contact the author, edit the first couple of pages and send it to them as an example of what you can do for them. Include your price to do the whole book, and when it should be paid. You might break it into three payments but don't give them any of the parts until they're paid for. Be sure to ask for the endorsement/testimonial and perhaps offer a discount for it.

4) Do some work for free or at a reduced rate in exchange for endorsements/testimonials that you can put on your site.

5) Don't forget to include a link to your editing site on your signature here and at any other related forums you use.

6) Consider putting up a short example or two of your work on your editing site. And/or offer to do potential customers' first page or two for free at no obligation so they can sample your work.

Hope it helps. :)
 
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Maryn

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I know so many writers, most not native speakers but writing in English, who've been ripped off by editors who missed obvious mistakes and changed correct text to add errors. It's frustrating that writers are too often clueless about how to find competent editors.
 

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It's too darned easy to start such a business. I wouldn't mind it if those who ran such businesses wouldn't edit for those who want to be writers, and if those who ghostwrite wouldn't work for anyone who wasn't going to self-publish, or who didn't have a publishing contract in hand.

The great majority of those who run "editing" businesses are completely unqualified to do so. Certainly when they try to edit books. Editing a book isn't about grammar and punctuation, and no writer should have to pay for these things, anyway. Editing a book is about story and character, pace and flow, mood and tone, and half a dozen other things that no one without special training, or who hasn't worked professional for a publisher, can do. They have no clue what it is that makes a book publisher, and yet sell editing services.

Ghostwriters are even worse. If you can't write and sell your own books, you can ghostwrite books that stand a chance is blazes of selling, either. Yet these completely unqualified people take money to write bad books that never, ever stand a chance of selling.

I think most are honest, and have every intention of helping people. The truth is, though, that almost al of them are selling services that do no good, and very often do great harm.
 

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I agree with Mr Ritchie.

I edit, and I ghostwrite.

I've worked in publishing for a while, have edited a lot, written a lot of published books, and have the experience to do it properly. I work only for publishers, not for writers, so I know I'm producing good work. Many of the freelancers I've seen spring up over the last decade do not have the experience to know what they're doing, and do not do good work.

If you want to be a freelance editor or ghostwriter, an English degree is not going to give you what you need. The critical reading skills you learn in University won't help either. You need to get a job in a good trade publishing house. Work as an editor for at least five years. Work on as many books as you can. It's the only training you can do which will guarantee you're not exploiting your clients.
 

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It's not easy. I've been a self-employed editor for five years this month. Owning a business and actually getting work has been the hardest thing I've ever done. It has certainly been the most rewarding, though. I can say, without a doubt, that advertising and finding new clients is the most difficult part. There are few ways to connect with authors, and it's mostly all online in forums or groups, which generally have rules against advertising. It's not easy, but it can be done. Most of all, it has to do with the effort you put into it.
 

WeaselFire

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Dead simple to start this business. Making money, finding clients, building a reputation and staying in business are no easier or harder than any other business. If you ever baby sat or mowed lawns in high school, you're already an experienced pro in entrepreneurialism.

Of course, 99% of business fail in the first year... :)

The world is full of ripoff editors and ghost writers with no skills who burn through their potential client list in nothing flat. It's rare to find someone with the skills, background and knowledge to do it right and make a career. Try to be the latter.

Jeff
 

Maggie Brooke

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Editing a book isn't about grammar and punctuation, and no writer should have to pay for these things, anyway. Editing a book is about story and character, pace and flow, mood and tone, and half a dozen other things that no one without special training, or who hasn't worked professional for a publisher, can do. They have no clue what it is that makes a book publisher, and yet sell editing services.

It depends on what type of editing you do. If you proofread, it is all about grammar and punctuation. The more involved editing you describe is developmental in nature. That's a totally different service. Some editors do proofreading, developmental editing and everything in between. Some specialize.

I've been freelance editing and writing for six years on the side. I work for an agency. I would suggest that this is an alternate way to hone your skills and learn a lot of style guides. Despite what is written here, you don't have to get your experience at a publishing house to be a good editor. I produce clean, quality edits in my field and have never worked for a publishing house. Granted I do niche academic editing, but still.

There are many paths to becoming a good editor. If you have an eye for detail and are the type who always notices mistakes in published novels or in the newspaper, it might be a good fit for you. It might not. It's hard to know until you try.
 
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It depends on what type of editing you do. If you proofread, it is all about grammar and punctuation. The more involved editing you describe is developmental in nature. That's a totally different service. Some editors do proofreading, developmental editing and everything in between. Some specialize.

Good editors usually specialise, because all the different layers of editing--editing, copy editing, proofreading--require different skills. There's a lot more overlap now, with developmental editors doing everything: but most will have one area they're better at.

I've been freelance editing and writing for six years on the side. I work for an agency. I would suggest that this is an alternate way to hone your skills and learn a lot of style guides. Despite what is written here, you don't have to get your experience at a publishing house to be a good editor. I produce clean, quality edits in my field and have never worked for a publishing house. Granted I do niche academic editing, but still.

There are many paths to becoming a good editor. If you have an eye for detail and are the type who always notices mistakes in published novels or in the newspaper, it might be a good fit for you. It might not. It's hard to know until you try.

When you learn how to be an editor by working at a large publishing house, your work is closely monitored and you're mentored, too.

If you learn how to be an editor without these things, you're going to be using the work you're editing as a training-ground. I don't know many writers who would be happy to allow their hard-written work to be used in this way. And there's a lot more to becoming a good editor than being "the type who always notices mistakes in published novels or in the newspaper". As Jamesaritchie said earlier, editing isn't all about spotting mistakes in grammar and punctuation: it's mostly about making the book as great as it can be.
 

Maggie Brooke

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I see your point Old Hack, but you assume that agencies don't have similar vetting systems to publishing houses. My work is also checked before it is sent to clients. The reality is that there are not enough publishing houses to train the number of editors needed, especially in the current self-publishing landscape. Plus, a lot of self-pubbed authors probably couldn't afford you. They likely recognize that, if they only pay an editor $250 to line edit their 80K word manuscript, that they won't get the comprehensive attention and superior results that multiple editors who works for publishers would provide.

Also, you distorted what I said about being the type who notices mistakes in books. What I said was that this quality might mean you could be a good editor, not that this was what made a good editor.

I don't really have a dog in this fight, since I don't edit fiction, and the requirements for editing what I do are much different. I do, however, tend to reject posts that assert that there is one true way to achieve something.
 

cornflake

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No. someone paying $250 to have 80,000 words line edited will not get good results, but the person paying it probably doesn't realize that, and the person advertising services at those rates, who is likely not competent, is dragging down everyone else.

This is what happened to freelance writing.

People started offering or agreeing to write for pennies a word, or for 'exposure,' and those rates have become a widely-accepted means of compensation.

When there are people offering to edit entire novel-length works for joke rates, writers begin to believe they're acceptable rates, and don't understand why someone would charge more when there are people charging so little. This helps no one.
 

Maggie Brooke

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No. someone paying $250 to have 80,000 words line edited will not get good results, but the person paying it probably doesn't realize that, and the person advertising services at those rates, who is likely not competent, is dragging down everyone else.

This is what happened to freelance writing.

People started offering or agreeing to write for pennies a word, or for 'exposure,' and those rates have become a widely-accepted means of compensation.

When there are people offering to edit entire novel-length works for joke rates, writers begin to believe they're acceptable rates, and don't understand why someone would charge more when there are people charging so little. This helps no one.

This is an age-old problem of the market. You will always have people who enter the market and under-cut others. That it happens in editing is no surprise, but I would propose that if the clients coming to you don't understand why you would charge more in order to produce a better result for them, then they are likely clients you don't want to work with anyway. They are not your target demographic.

Obviously editing is dealing with this issue right now due to the explosion of self-publishing. Go over to Kboards some time and you'll find writers who truly don't think they need an editor at all. We might agree to disagree but an "inferior" proofreader that charges less and therefore reads more quickly and who catches 50 errors instead of 100 is better than no proofreader at all. In that case, I see the perfect as the enemy of the good.

But ultimately your argument is that freelancers have made a race to the bottom. While I see your point, I mostly disagree. Those writers who pay $250 to line edit their manuscript will never pay your higher rate. In that sense, you (hypothetical you, I have no idea who you are) are not losing a customer when a part-time freelancer enters the market.

It's akin to Mercedes worrying about Kia stealing their customers. Kia customers were never going to buy the Mercedes in the first place.

But I agree that it's frustrating in any business to encounter clients who don't want to pay you what you are worth. Thankfully there are still writers and publishing houses who see the value. If they leave you and migrate to the lowest bidder? Well, they'll probably be back when they see the poor product that has their names attached to it.
 

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I see your point Old Hack, but you assume that agencies don't have similar vetting systems to publishing houses.

No, I don't. I've seen the vetting many agencies give their editors, and it's rarely enough.

I've been offered work by several editing agencies and always asked to see some of the books they'd worked on before I'd consider it. I have rarely accepted the work, because most of the books I've seen from them have been so poorly edited.

There are a few editorial agencies I recommend, but not many.

My work is also checked before it is sent to clients.

That's all well and good but to properly check an editor's work you need to get a second editor to read the entire book, and make their own notes and queries on it. Which few agencies are able to do.

I'm not disputing that you're good at what you do. I'm just pointing out the many problems I've seen in some of the editing services I've encountered over the years.

The reality is that there are not enough publishing houses to train the number of editors needed, especially in the current self-publishing landscape.

I agree: but I also recognise that there are a lot of people setting up shop as editors who don't have the first clue what they're doing, because of the huge opportunities self publishing has created.

Plus, a lot of self-pubbed authors probably couldn't afford you.

Damn right they can't! *preens*

I have a good reputation and these days I turn down more work than I accept. It's a good place to be.

They likely recognize that, if they only pay an editor $250 to line edit their 80K word manuscript, that they won't get the comprehensive attention and superior results that multiple editors who works for publishers would provide.

I think it is highly unlikely that anyone could get a half-way decent edit for $250. I've seen a lot of self published books which were, I was assured, very well-edited and they were almost all a hot mess. Mind you, we do have to look to the writers, too: they're not obliged to accept their editors' suggestions. In trade publishing there are almost always other people around to try to talk to writers who foolishly reject their editors' suggestions but in self publishing there's not that same level of safeguarding.

Also, you distorted what I said about being the type who notices mistakes in books. What I said was that this quality might mean you could be a good editor, not that this was what made a good editor.

True!

I don't really have a dog in this fight, since I don't edit fiction, and the requirements for editing what I do are much different. I do, however, tend to reject posts that assert that there is one true way to achieve something.

I edit non-fiction.

I want to find the One True Way to edit. Wouldn't that be a thing?
 

cornflake

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This is an age-old problem of the market. You will always have people who enter the market and under-cut others. That it happens in editing is no surprise, but I would propose that if the clients coming to you don't understand why you would charge more in order to produce a better result for them, then they are likely clients you don't want to work with anyway. They are not your target demographic.

Obviously editing is dealing with this issue right now due to the explosion of self-publishing. Go over to Kboards some time and you'll find writers who truly don't think they need an editor at all. We might agree to disagree but an "inferior" proofreader that charges less and therefore reads more quickly and who catches 50 errors instead of 100 is better than no proofreader at all. In that case, I see the perfect as the enemy of the good.

But ultimately your argument is that freelancers have made a race to the bottom. While I see your point, I mostly disagree. Those writers who pay $250 to line edit their manuscript will never pay your higher rate. In that sense, you (hypothetical you, I have no idea who you are) are not losing a customer when a part-time freelancer enters the market.

It's akin to Mercedes worrying about Kia stealing their customers. Kia customers were never going to buy the Mercedes in the first place.

But I agree that it's frustrating in any business to encounter clients who don't want to pay you what you are worth. Thankfully there are still writers and publishing houses who see the value. If they leave you and migrate to the lowest bidder? Well, they'll probably be back when they see the poor product that has their names attached to it.

Undercutting is one thing - one editor offering a discounted rate off the generally-accepted market rate is undercutting. Someone unskilled coming in and offering to do the same job for 10% of the rate, not 10% off, is not undercutting, in my mind. If it costs, say, around $400 to change the brakes on a car, and most mechanics are within 10-20% of that, depending on geography, type of shop, etc., and a new place opens offering brake jobs for $300, they're undercutting the market.

If Bob, who has picked up a crescent wrench twice before in his life, has no idea how to change out the brakes on a car but figures he can do it with the help of youtube comes to town and puts up a sign offering to change brakes for $50, it's a different story. If a couple people go to Bob and their cars don't immediately fall apart, but the brakes are loose and he used second-hand parts that won't last and the shoes don't actually fit the cars, and then people in the neighbourhood start showing up at the actual mechanics and refusing to pay more than $50 because of Bob, there's a problem. Actual mechanics can't compete, Bob will get a lot of business and screw up people's cars, though they might not realize it at first, the real mechanics might go out of business, and then there's a wasteland with Bob at the center and people wondering what happened.

Proofreading, and editing in general, isn't something I think of as having levels like I think you're implying. I can buy high-end cars or low-end, but there's not high-end and low-end editing. There's editing. It's correct - especially when we're talking about things like proofing - or it is not.

Unskilled editors with no experience should not be working on people's actual manuscripts without supervision. They're not, that I've seen anyway, saying they're unskilled, or that they're only worth 10% of the market rate because they'll only catch some things. They're largely, again, in my experience, suggesting that there is no difference between editors, that somehow a bachelor's degree in English is a qualification, that there's no reason to pay more. Many people, especially people with no experience in publishing, don't know that these things are not true. As you note, many people believe they need no editing at all.

It's not about getting every client. It's about it destroying the market for the actual professionals. Same as freelancing. Once there were that many people offering to work for basically or literally nothing, and there was a lot of crap circulating, the places that paid for quality had a hard time competing with the places generating tons of content at no cost. You might say that's just the market working, but where are content mills now? Tons of real jobs disappeared, now the content mills are going, and it's hard for a real concern to rebound. Physical bookstores are coming back as the ebook thing is shaking out (arguably due to the same issue), but it takes a long time for bookstores to be able to open, and then for people to keep remembering there's a reason to pay for books. No, professional editors probably don't want to work with people who don't understand the basics of editing and expect entire novels 'fixed' for $250, but that's not the core issue.
 

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cornflake - Our views are not that far apart. Although I do think that individuals who go to content mills do know they are getting an inferior product, they just don't care. They might eventually care when they realize the blog entries they paid $100 for in bulk are illiterate. But, once again, you're asking people to care about quality when many don't.

And if someone thinks they can get high quality manuscript editing for $250, the joke's on them. They don't know very much about basic math, considering you can't even read a manuscript in less then 5-10 hours, much less edit it.

But speaking practically, where do you suggest all these editors who are responding to the unprecedented market due to self-publishing get this supervision? There aren't enough publishing houses to provide it.

It's the unfortunate reality that markets sometimes collapse and have to rebuild themselves. I don't know how to realistically stop that without creating a gatekeeping cabal, which won't work anyway.
 
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cornflake

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cornflake - Our views are not that far apart. Although I do think that individuals who go to content mills do know they are getting an inferior product, they just don't care. They might eventually care when they realize the blog entries they paid $100 for in bulk are illiterate. But, once again, you're asking people to care about quality when many don't.

And if someone thinks they can get high quality manuscript editing for $250, the joke's on them. They don't know very much about basic math, considering you can't even read a manuscript in less then 5-10 hours, much less edit it.

No, they don't know, and people agreeing to edit for those prices are only telling them that's the price. The people looking for editing aren't gong to learn and see above.

But speaking practically, where do you suggest all these editors who are responding to the unprecedented market due to self-publishing get this supervision? There aren't enough publishing houses to provide it.

It's the unfortunate reality that markets sometimes collapse and have to rebuild themselves. I don't know how to realistically stop that without creating a gatekeeping cabal, which won't work anyway.

I don't think every editor needs to have come through the exact same process, but no, there aren't enough editors to deal with all the self-publishers who want their books edited for $250. There probably shouldn't be, frankly.
 

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When you use an unskilled, untalented editor you don't just end up with a few misplaced apostrophes in your book: your book can be destroyed. I've seen the results. It's heartbreaking for the authors concerned and while I know they can usually dial it back, it is difficult to undo the changes a bad editor can encourage you to make.

But speaking practically, where do you suggest all these editors who are responding to the unprecedented market due to self-publishing get this supervision? There aren't enough publishing houses to provide it.

As I said earlier, you're right that there aren't enough places in trade publishing to train all the editors required. But there are lots of courses out there, there are places where you can get accredited, there are smaller publishers run by people who have left bigger publishers and set up on their own... there is training out there. But as you've said a few times, there are plenty of people who would prefer a cheap editor to a good one.

It's the unfortunate reality that markets sometimes collapse and have to rebuild themselves. I don't know how to realistically stop that without creating a gatekeeping cabal, which won't work anyway.

Good lord, how I dislike the word "gatekeeper". It's so often used to disparage literary agents, most of whom are generous and thoughtful and kind in their approach to writers, and who don't deserve the criticisms they receive. Still, I think we already have that "cabal" you have referred to: it's trade publishing. It works very well.

We're getting a bit off-topic, aren't we? I shall put on my moderator hat and suggest that we try to veer back towards the original poster's question. Thanks, all.
 

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I'm guessing editors/ghostwriters are a dime a dozen. I'm just wondering if anyone here picks up odd jobs now and again, and if it's worth your time, how you advertise your services, etc. How would I go about advertising myself, given that I'm kind of limited in my ability to network face to face?

I do freelance work as a copywriter. It certainly is worth your time if you're clever about it. Take the content mills that people have been talking about in this thread. I think those are a total waste of time, because they encourage a supersonic race to the bottom that benefits no one. The only one I was remotely interested in was an Australian-based one that was originally set up as a flat pay-by-the-word payment scheme. Then they changed it to one where writers bidded on projects, which meant the rates dropped like a stone. No thanks.

The secret lies with networking. I get my work through a graphic designer and web developer who onsells my services to his clients. Basically, he builds the website, and I write the copy for it. I work for $70 an hour (this is starting to sound like one of those Google spam ads, I know). I can justify that to clients because I work as a copywriter 9-to-5 as well. A job comes through every fortnight or so, so its not crazy amounts of work, but my goal in 2017 is to expand to a few more people who onsell my services. The logic is that its easier to have, say, relationships with 5 designers rather than 50 individual clients. Sounds like your mother might be a bit of a golden goose. Why not try take some of the stress from her?

One other thing that's worth mentioning. I paid some decent money to have a nicely designed website (I never thought in a million years I'd be paying money to use certain fonts). The reason I did that was I knew I wanted to work with graphic designers, because they could bring me work. I know a fair few designers, and surprise surprise, they all care quite deeply about design, and they wouldn't ever recommend me to anyone else if I didn't reflect well on their own brand. The reason I mention this is if you were to work with your mother's clients, you might want to think about what sort of a freelancer a rich art patron would want to hire. Worth a thought.
 

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I'm just wondering if anyone here picks up odd jobs now and again, and if it's worth your time, how you advertise your services, etc.

Probably won't help you but here's my answers:

I do some editing, I have ghostwritten and it pays more than staring at the TV but less than working as an electrician. I have never advertised these services, just through the network of friends and colleagues.

If you're wondering whether you should network more, the answer is always yes. If you are not the editor of your school's newspaper, literary journal or working for local magazines, editorial services or the newspaper, even as an intern, you're already losing a large part of your education and your opportunity.

And, as a writer or for writing services, I have never advertised or used any services I found from ads.

Jeff
 
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1) Start an e-zine where you publish short stories, short personal non-fiction, and perhaps poetry. List it on Submission Grinder so it gets a decent amount of traffic. Make a tab on it where you offer editing for X amount per word, per 250 words, or whatever. Make it clear that it does not include accepting the work for publication although you will accept rejected work for paid editing. (Don't forget to set up a Paypal account for accepting payments, if you don't have one already). This can be very fun and will also help your own writing to have regular access to a slushpile. You'll become very familiar with what makes a submission jump out far above the others and what makes an editor roll their eyes when they see it yet again.

This feels a lot like a conflict of interest to me. I'd side-eye any zine which offers paid editing of rejected submissions. I know you said 'it does not include accepting the work for publication', but when a writer is getting the head of a magazine to edit their work they will do it in the hopes that it leads to publication after.

Fruitbat, I thought your other situations were all very clever and industry-savvy, but this one would push me away from an editor rather than towards them.

I'm not sure the zine idea is a wise one financially, since it's a difficult market right now and the time and effort taken will severely detract from editing jobs. But if you do decide to create a zine, Galumph_Triumph, I'd suggest firmly separating zine work from editing work.
 
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