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Looking for hard sci-fi writer to make computer RPG's with!

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Temaran

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Hello everyone!


I found this forum when I was looking around for some place to make friends with sci-fi writers!


I'm a Swede named Temaran and I'm a computer programmer (C++) by trade. I work as lead programmer at a Swedish technology company I also do a lot of consulting, mainly in computer game companies.
I've worked on a couple of AAA and indie games in the games industry, and I've released a couple of small games on niche markets.


I'm also an avid sci-fi and fantasy fan. My favourite Sci-fi is probably either the foundation triology, Dune or something from Alistair Reynolds. When it comes to fantasy, I think I've read most of the most popular stuff. I'm currently working through GRRM after not being able to resist anymore (I decided I would watch the entire series before going into the books.. Well.. Yeah.. That failed). My favourite was RJ and the Wheel of Time until I turned 19, when I started reading some older stuff from the 70's and 80's (Think Thomas Covenant books etc.) and kind of abandoned WoT like most people seem to do. I currently don't really have a favourite fantasy, although if I had to choose an author, I would probably settle on Brandon Sanderson as my current favourite. Not necessarily because he's that good (in any category really, especially not the prose), but more because I really enjoy reading his work on some basic level, and also he's so prolific!


In regards to games, I enjoy mostly old-school RPGs like Planescape: Torment and Baldur's Gate and tactical games like XCOM UFO defense and Jagged Alliance 1 & 2.


I'm really into post humanism and futurism when it comes to my own small forays into the writing craft, and while I've never published any of my own stories I have several published technical translations, mainly Japanese->Swedish and Japanese->English, and I try to get at least one of these published per year to keep my Japanese sharp.




So this is my open letter to you hard sci-fi writers!
I'm looking for someone to team up with when it comes to game creation!


The last three years I've been working on a dream project of mine, with heavy emphasis on story-telling as well as the core game mechanics that draw inspiration from games such as Jagged Alliance, XCOM and Frozen synapse, but since I'm not a (good) writer myself I decided I need to make a friend that could help me out with that part while I concentrate on the code.



The person I'm looking for should be something like this:
* You like these types of games (CRPGs, Tactical turn based games)
* You like writing hard science fiction touching on topics such as trans-humanism, futurism, STL space travel etc.
* You have written hard sci-fi before, and ideally have published something (although this is not necessary, I'm more interested in you having cool stories to tell rather than having gotten them published. Although, if you have published works, that probably means you're good, which is always a plus!)
* You have some time to kill for the forseeable future (Game development, like novel writing is a lengthy process)
* You wouldn't mind spending some of this time creating games with me
* You are okay with not being paid for this work right away. I have made money from my games before, but there is no budget for this project except the private funds I push into it. I use this money to pay for smaller, subcontractable components such as sounds, models, textures and sometimes concept art / illustrations. For the core posts, like the art direction and writing, I really want something more permanent however, which is why I want to make a good friend and business associate that is excited enough about the project to want to work on it even though there might not be any money in it before we get actual funding or release something.
* I'm 30, so the closer you are to that, we more stuff we probably have to talk about :)
* You like to create fictional worlds, lore and history

It's worth mentioning that writing for games is very different to writing novels or other prose since the player is a part of the story.
If you think writing like this sounds like a fun challenge, that's also of course a big plus! :D

If you feel that this describes you, please drop me a message and let's talk!


Best regards,
Temaran



P.S.


If you find this post presumpteous or otherwise strange, then I apologize in advance :)
I couldn't really come up with any other way to make writer friends, except for maybe going to parties and cafes and harassing people, but this seemed a bit more reasonable compared to that o_o.
 

Temaran

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Haha, oldskool :)

I almost exclusively work in Unreal Engine 4 nowadays though, although I still dabble in CryEngine 3 and Unity if my work calls for it :)

/Temaran
 

cbenoi1

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Those are game frameworks. Do you have an RPG game _engine_ ?

-cb
 

Temaran

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No need to be antagonistic :)

Yes, I've spent roughly a year developing an RPG core ontop of UE4 to handle core subsystems such as dialogue, inventory, skills, movement systems etc.
As I mentioned in the op, I've been involved in the development of a multitude of games, both AAA and indie so you can assume that I know what I'm doing ;)

/Temaran
 

Maggie Maxwell

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No need to be antagonistic :)

Yes, I've spent roughly a year developing an RPG core ontop of UE4 to handle core subsystems such as dialogue, inventory, skills, movement systems etc.
As I mentioned in the op, I've been involved in the development of a multitude of games, both AAA and indie so you can assume that I know what I'm doing ;)

/Temaran

Key word there's 'assume', since we don't really know who you are. We just have to take your word for it, which when you're talking about teaming up on a project, doesn't count for much. You don't even tell us what those games are, or what company/ies you've worked with on the AAAs. I could say I've worked on Oscar nominated movies. Who knows if it's true (hint: it is totally not and that hurts my soul. I want an Oscar.)

I understand wanting to make writer friends to make games, so stick around and explore the forum. We've got a subforum just for game talk. :) Get to know us and open up to us, and maybe in a little time, you'll meet someone you mesh with that you just know is the one you want to work with.
 

cbenoi1

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I worked on an Oscar movie _and_ worked on AAA game titles.

There you go. |8-}


-cb

ETA: Yep, that could be considered offensive if read a certain way. Apologies.
 
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Temaran

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Wow, this heated up quicky! I can see the dilemma of course, but that is still no reason to be antagonistic, or outright rude in the case of cbenoi's last post.

There are of course reasons why I haven't listed any games.
One major problem is that I will not be in the credits in most of them anyways, as I worked as a consultant
Another is that most of the ones I've worked on are not released yet, and this includes almost all of the indies. NDA's are scary.
The only ones I can list among the AAA's that I've done some work on are two of the Assassin's creed games and "The Hunter".

Even though I haven't been credited though, you can get indirect evidence if you feel that is enough by looking up my handle on github (https://github.com/Temaran), crossreferencing that with the organizations I belong to there, and looking up which companies that Ubisoft and expansive worlds have been working with.
If you're clever, you might be able to figure out who I am, and what I've been involved in.

But in the end, that is not that important. The biggest reason why I didn't list any games is simply because I cannot prove any of it. Even for the games I will be in the credits in (there are a few that have said they will list me, but not that many) I would be listed under my real name, and not this handle. And even if they listed the handle, I would not be able to prove that it was me who was writing under it at this particular moment. So in the end, it seemed like a better option to wait with validating my identity until after I've found a like-minded soul here. :)

In terms of my own games, that I've made from scratch, there are unfortunately not any I'm proud of, although I've made some money off them. If you are really curious though, you can see one of them here (I made an arcade machine for it too, which I'm more proud of than the actual game, weirdly enough). Although posting this video probably removes all of my insofar built-up mystique :(

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0xgyBNVrHk

If you still find the opportunity to be too unsubstantial for your liking, then I suppose I'm out of arguments :)

/Temaran
 
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Latina Bunny

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I don't really see any heat or "antagonistic" atmosphere; I see people asking practical questions, especially for a project that may not pay off right away.

All these people are doing is asking what your specific experiences and skills are. You were very vague in your opening post, so it would be good to provide more details about what you do and more about the business arrangements.

I've seen projects go down in flames, and I've seen them burn out all sorts of creative people involved, so I don't blame people for being cautious and wary about getting involved in projects like this--especially since they aren't getting paid... People often underestimate or under appreciate writers and artists, and some people out there think they can underpay writers and artists (or have them work for free)...

Thank you for at least providing a gameplay video of one of your games.

It helps to show proof you know what you're doing if you want to convince people that you actually do know what you're doing and what you're capable of.

What kinds of things did you do for the two games you listed? (Assassins' Creed and the other?)

If the games aren't released yet, then maybe your should either wait until you're able to talk about your roles in making those games, or you should show more of your own work... Perhaps a playable demo or alpha/beta or something?
 
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Latina Bunny

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The best piece of advice is to interact with people on the forums, so they can get to know you, because most people wouldn't want to work for free for a huge project with a relative stranger. (That is the reality, and is reasonable, not "antagonistic" or heated.)

Would you code on a big project, with no pay, for a relative stranger?

* You have written hard sci-fi before, and ideally have published something (although this is not necessary, I'm more interested in you having cool stories to tell rather than having gotten them published. Although, if you have published works, that probably means you're good, which is always a plus!)

Someone would really have to like these games or something, because why should they create something for someone else (and not get paid) when they can do their own world building and writing their own stories while actually getting paid?

I can understand a hobby, but this sounds like a massive project. From someone unknown (to the writer).

Is the plan for this project to be a finished financial product?

* You have some time to kill for the forseeable future (Game development, like novel writing is a lengthy process)
* You wouldn't mind spending some of this time creating games with me

Depending on how long this project takes, that's a lot of time to kill--for something that hasn't come to fruition yet, plus the whole not getting paid for your time and efforts part.

* You are okay with not being paid for this work right away.

I have made money from my games before, but there is no budget for this project except the private funds I push into it.

I use this money to pay for smaller, subcontractable components such as sounds, models, textures and sometimes concept art / illustrations.

For the core posts, like the art direction and writing, I really want something more permanent however, which is why I want to make a good friend and business associate that is excited enough about the project to want to work on it even though there might not be any money in it before we get actual funding or release something.

So, you'll pay for little bits and pieces, but not the core artists and writers who will probably give a huge chunk of their time and effort to making this project? Why can't you pay these people in small increments?

Someone would really have to enjoy these kinds of games to be writing/creating for free (at least, at first)...

Again, would you code for an entire project and not get paid for it? (For someone you don't know, and who's vague about what they have worked on in the past.)

Also, have your tried promoting your project on various game sites or within your gaming creation circles? Maybe you will have more success there (since they will love game creation)?
 
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Temaran

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Hello!

Well, I suppose since I'm the one being questioned, I probably feel more pressure than the other people involved. Looking back I suppose the initial reactions are not that odd, but then again, this is the first time I reach out like this. My other forum experience is mostly from technical forums where the code gets all the focus. This might also be a bit cultural. I'm Swedish, and I can see that the majority of you fine ladies and gentlemen are Americans. We are generally a bit more reserved in Sweden, so this is probably also an influencing factor. I actually kind of find it refreshing now that I think a bit about it. With heat I simply meant I got a lot of replies in short succession :)
English is not my main language, so I'm probably going to get nuances like this wrong some of the time :/

I know very well what you are talking about when it comes to projects going down in flames. I've been a part of quite a few hobbyist teams in my student years that did not pan out very well. That is largely why I started making games on my own instead for a time. At least then I can guarantee that I finish the game without having to rely on a team. As I mentioned in op though, I am getting tired of doing it myself since there is a distinctive limit to what you can accomplish like that, and I'd like giving the team structure a go once more.

This time though, instead of teaming up with friends I decided I would try to find people with similar motivational levels to me, which is why I thought posting in a forum like this would be a good idea (If you are passionate enough about your writing to be on a writing forum, that is probably a good sign no?).

In regards to what I did for the AAA games it was technical expertise with eyetracking integration (interaction design, implementation of the tech and everything that comes with that and bug control). It depends largely on the studio I work with what I end up doing and for how long, but for most jobs it's been anywhere from a month to a year's involvement.

If credits of that magnitude are important to all writers on the forum, then I might very well have to wait. But since I'm doing this project now, and I really want to get the key people in early in the project, partly to help me shape it, I decided this would be the perfect time to start looking. I will of course provide full SCC access to the game assets and binaries to any writer who is genuinely interested in the project, but before that I want to figure out if the personal values of that writer is in line with my values before I start sampling their writing and they start sampling my gameplay.

I also thought finding writers who were interested in working on game narratives to be the natural first step, which is a big reason to why I didn't provide more info initially. Although I suppose walls of text are less intimidating to writers compared to any other type of forum, so maybe doing the complete info dump in the op might have been better?

/Temaran
 
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Temaran

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bunny-gypsy,

I get the feeling that I was not being clear on my thoughts regarding pay. Let me try to rephrase a bit.

From my op:
* You are okay with not being paid for this work right away. I have made money from my games before, but there is no budget for this project except the private funds I push into it. I use this money to pay for smaller, subcontractable components such as sounds, models, textures and sometimes concept art / illustrations. For the core posts, like the art direction and writing, I really want something more permanent however, which is why I want to make a good friend and business associate that is excited enough about the project to want to work on it even though there might not be any money in it before we get actual funding or release something.

So the idea is basically a fair split of any profits the project might lead to, in accordance to what me and that person agrees to. It might be a ratio calculated from relative time investment, or it might be a set ratio. I thought this would be more clear, but I suppose I was wrong :(


I can understand a hobby, but this sounds like a massive project. From someone unknown (to the writer).

This is larger than any game I've released privately so far for sure, but I wouldn't call it massive. Keeping the scope realistic is something I've had a lot of practice with, both as an employee at a large technology company (The one in that video), as a consultant with game companies, and as a private entrepreneur. Being known to the writers here is something I'm working on though! I was expecting to talk a lot more in PM's, but I suppose this works too? o_O


Is the plan for this project to be a finished financial product?

Yes.


Depending on how long this project takes, that's a lot of time to kill--for something that hasn't come to fruition yet, plus the whole not getting paid for your time and efforts part.

Yes, the plan is to get a vertical slice up and running and then try to get funding, either by traditional publishing models, or by crowdfunding, whichever makes the most sense.
So I'm hoping that the three key people I talk about in the next paragraph will think the project is interesting enough to work on without any pay until we can get the initial funding. The only other alternative is to take a loan, and try to push to the vertical slice with that money. This is something I have considered in the past, but I've never had a really strong idea I really believe in until now. Unfortunately (or rather fortunately? xD) I have two kids now, so I wouldn't dare put their future at risk by taking such a volatile action. I also think the birth of my daughter was partly what inspired this project, so that's quite a circular circumstance :)


So, you'll pay for little bits and pieces, but not the core artists and writers who will probably give a huge chunk of their time and effort to making this project? Why can't you pay these people in small increments?

Yes. When it comes to stock assets, I can get them from sites and modify them, or I can get them made on demand by paying, but that does not work when it comes to the three most important aspects of the game. The game mechanics, the writing and the art direction. These three will not turn out good unless you have invested, passionate people working on them. That is why instead of commissioning them, I want to have shareholding people in charge of them.

Again, would you code for an entire project and not get paid for it? (For someone you don't know, and who's vague about what they have worked on in the past.)

No, but I might (and have in the past) inquire further through PMs if the premise spoke to me when I've been between projects. I have to admit I have never joined any of them though.

Also, have your tried promoting your project on various game sites or within your gaming creation circles? Maybe you will have more success there (since they will love game creation)?

There are unfortunately next to no writers that frequent game creation forums (at least I have not run into many). And finding a writer that has the same personal values as me, and the same tastes, enough that we could work together? I think writer's forums are probably a much better place to look in. I hope you guys don't mind. :)
I usually hang out at UE4's forum, which is where I've found 3D-artists, animators, illustrators and concept artists. No writers though. I'm hoping to find a lead artist among the very talented people there eventually, but I think that finding a writer is more important, and a more immediate concern, since the writing can influence game mechanics in a way that art does not. Ergo, finding a writer before I create mechanics that limit us in the writing process or require me to throw away mechanics because it doesn't work with the writing is key.

I want the social interactions between the characters in the game to be one of the main USP's of the project, and tacking something like that on halfway into the project is probably not going to work out.

/Temaran
 
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Latina Bunny

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Hmm... Toughie.

Have you researched or asked other indie game creators how they manage to get a team together? Maybe find out how they manage to find game writers or what sorts of people do the game writing parts? (Maybe they had people doing multiple jobs, like a writer and level designer, etc?)

Have you tried asking around with networking? Maybe an illustrator is also a writer, or may know someone who is?

At what point will you sample a writer's writing? You said you wanted someone with same values (which is vague). What values? Are you planning to be friends first? (Friends sometimes can get messed up by business and financial stuff, so I think you may need to be careful with that.)

This is a tough one. I think you should do more research on this, or get to know the community well, or maybe get more (visible) small game projects done to show your experience or expertise.

I wish you lots of luck on your project. :)
 

Temaran

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Hehe.

Yes, of course. I'm in contact with a lot of indie teams, and especially in Sweden I've probably talked personally with most of the larger ones at one time or another. Most are formed among close friends or as the result of some project at school etc. Arrowhead studios are a good example of this. I know of at least two studios that are led by teachers who are getting some help from students (Teotl studios who made the ball and are making SOLUS atm is like this) and of course from team mates from earlier projects. Yet others find their team mates online. Since I didn't have much luck in school finding my dream-team, and I'm not a particularly good teacher, this seemed like my best bet! :D

I know a lot of people in the industry, and have a lot of friends who are involved in game creation schools in the county. There are a couple of people there who might be interested to join as the lead artist, after I find a writer. But finding a writer has proven elusive. I know a few, but all of them have either declined because they do not write sci-fi, or they don't find writing for games that enticing.

I was hoping to put my values in PM's since it is really putting yourself out there bare, but here are some of the values that I hold dear at least:



* I firmly believe that humans have the ability to take charge of their future and I want to convey a sense of future optimism to the players of my games.

* I also would like to use my games as a vessel to talk about one or more world-scoped problems that are facing us today.

* I am strongly for GMO's as a science, although I do recognize that some particular GMO crops might be developed that are better off banned. I don't believe any crops fall into this category yet though (that I know of). From looking at the evidence I've found I do not consider for example the roundup/Monsanto controversy to be that controversial (I consider the crops safe).

* The scientific consensus and the evidence I've seen has convinced me that anthropogenic climate change is real and we're going to have serious problems here on earth if we don't do something about it.

* I am a strong proponent of using fission power generation, although I am concerned about the safety standards today (many reactors do not live up to the modern standards etc.). I follow fusion power research as closely as I can and I think it is our best option when it comes to the future of power generation. I love renewable energy though, don't get me wrong, but I see it more as a supplement for personal and small community use rather than a primary power source for industry etc. If we want to continue to grow as a species, we need power independence.

* I am a strong believer in social justice and the equal rights and opportunities for all. I am rather turned off by the modern feminist movement though as I feel they are creating more hostility than they're helping at the moment. Too bad :(

* I believe in the human as a biological robot theory, rather than there being something mystical about our species, and as such, I think consciousness digitization and transfer will one day be possible. I also think that cybernetic augmentation and biological / genetic engineering are fields that should be pursued aggressively since they can better so many lives and rid us of disease and other problems.

* I have no problem with the concept of human cloning as the perfect solution to create replacement organs in the lab. I don't see the point in cloning people however, since we can make people the normal way just fine.

* I am however strongly for the use of genetic engineering when it comes to cure diseases in both unborn children and adults, and I also don't have any ethical problems with allowing for example parents have the option to choose the features of their child to be. (So you could for example splice in genes for brown hair or high intelligence, or a beautiful voice in your child-to-be if you wanted to, or just remove any genes relating to birth defects etc.)

* I am a strong atheist. That is, I don't believe there is a god. I don't discount the possibility of there being one, I just don't think it's very relevant, so I generally don't think about it. I do spend some time now and then thinking about what a world without religion might look like however, and I do think it would be a better world. Consequently, in the narrative of this game world, most of the world will be atheist by the time the campaign starts (25th century).

* I am a strong proponent of direct democracy. Here is a small text from the history narrative from the game about it (just one suggestion on something that I think would be a lot more democratic than what we are doing today. It hasn't been worked over that much yet though, so there are probably a lot of flaws with the text as it is.):
Most countries convert to so called “Direct democracy” between 2020-2030. This basically entails removing democratic parties completely and instead have a committee as the government body, with emphasis on full transparency. This committee is then responsible for monitoring all problems that needs decisions taken about them, such as decisions about energy, the school system, roads etc. As soon as a new decision arises, they format the problem as a task and uploads it to the democracy system server. Anyone who is then qualified to vote on the task can then do so through the server’s web portal. To become qualified, you have to take an annual test in the area of expertise that the task concerns. Depending on your score on this test, your vote can gain weight up to 2x the normal amount. A task cannot be issued as complete unless it has a certain amount of votes, so if a task needs more votes, the government can issue bonuses such as tax relief for citizens who take their time to study about a subject that needs more votes, take the test and give their informed opinion on the subject.

If we agree on all or most of these topics, I think we're off to a good start :)

This is a tough one. I think you should do more research on this, or get to know the community well, or maybe get more (visible) small game projects done to show your experience or expertise.

I wasn't expecting to find someone right away, and I was aiming to participate a bit in the other threads if people didn't seem very interested to drum up a bit of that interest. When it comes to showing earlier work, if I haven't found anyone by then, I will post links to projects I've worked on as they get released. I probably won't make more small games in any foreseeable future though, as it doesn't really interest me anymore.


All in all, I will be working on the project no matter when I find a writer for it, but it would probably be a lot more fun the earlier I found one :)


And thank you for the kind words!

/Temaran
 
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Kerosene

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Ah, yeah, I'll agree to be seeing cbenoi1 as a bit antagonistic. Not really sure what's up with recommending you RPG Maker and poking fun at what you're saying.

I also don't agree with Bunny Gypsy that your post was vague. I got everything I needed except for your real name and connections, e.i., credentials. You seem pretty knowledgeable, have spent enough time writing replies and trying to help folks in your own thread. But it's that credibility that we lack. It's a bit hard starting a some-what business relationship from very little facts.


I understand the need to search for a writer. I've interacted with game makers and have been propositioned for writing story/scenarios before, but it's quite daunting. A few problems come up: The legal issues, between the writer's content and the game's and how you draw legal and profit lines. Working with people who are almost strangers, especially over the internet can be quite awkward. And, of course, meshing the writer's story with the maker's game, because if the writer and game maker have different thoughts on the game's direction they conflict over everything.

That's why most game creators that I personally know either write their own stories or have very good friends whom they work with. In my university's writing classes, we often get a few game makers taking the class to learn how to craft stories. While it's not a sure-fire way to learn it all, it's a great start if you're under a good professor. However, you can learn the same by reading and writing and hanging around forums like AW. The problem comes when you have to figure out what narrative style you want to tell your game from. Screenwriting is better suited for game making than, let's say novel writing, but that depends on the game--visual novels are far more narrative driven than whatever reiteration of FPS franchise that's out.

I'm pretty curious more than anything at the moment. PM me with some more details of yourself and what you expect in the story/writing department. I ain't offering my hand (or as of now, who knows? I'm fairly open-minded), but I wouldn't mind hearing you out a bit more in private and possibly give you some pointers.
 

cbenoi1

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> I'm Swedish, and I can see that the majority of you
> fine ladies and gentlemen are Americans.

I've been an exec prod on an xbox title conversion and the dev team was 7 hours away. We did manage it (they were a top-tier studio in the UK), but it took dedication, constant readjustments, and a lot of discipline from both parties. The sort of game design you envision would require a more constant and direct relationship than one 8 - 9 hours away. At best. And we're talking hobbyists, not professional developers paid in full. Not impossible. But tough for sure.

-cb
 
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cbenoi1

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Ah, yeah, I'll agree to be seeing cbenoi1 as a bit antagonistic. Not really sure what's up with recommending you RPG Maker and poking fun at what you're saying.
Fixed upstream.

As for "recommending" anything, I always start with something simple to see if that fits the bill. I otherwise don't endorse products.

-cb
 

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Hello WillSauger!

I agree with everything you are saying in regards to credibility and the related problems. I think it boils down to either:
* Finding someone who is adventurous enough to join up despite these uncertainties (probably not that many around, but I'm hoping for the best :D)
* Making it myself as you suggest (believe me, I've thought a lot about this, but there are several problems here, the biggest one being my own ability, and scope. If I worked on my writing ability, I wouldn't have any time working on the game mechanics, and working on the game mechanics is what I'm most passionate about)
* Wait until I have funding (this is viable, but I'd rather take a chance and see if I can find someone now, who will probably end up a lot more invested in the work rather than if I hired someone)

So it's probably going to end up being 1 or 3 :)

And, of course, meshing the writer's story with the maker's game, because if the writer and game maker have different thoughts on the game's direction they conflict over everything.

This is a big reason why I've tried to take the approach I have here. As long as my main "alignments" are being followed to some extent, I'm prepared to leave everything else story related to the writer I team up with. We're still going to have to figure a lot when it comes to the part of the game where the mechanics and writing intersect, but I'm more concerned about getting the project realized rather than "having my way". So I'm optimistic.

The point you make about screen-writing vs. novel writing is a very interesting one. I hadn't actually considered this before. Thinking about it now though, I'm not sure it's true for this project. I don't particularly personally enjoy games that are "cinematic" (assassin's creed, COD etc), but rather games that play more like novels. That's why I cited Planescape: Torment as one of my favourite games of all time, and has over 800.000 words. That's a lot. Considering that an average sci-fi novel has around 100.000 words, it's actually quite insane. It's of course unrealistic to have ambitions that high for an indie game, but still, I want to make those kinds of games.

References:
http://thewritepractice.com/word-count/
http://fanlore.org/wiki/Planescape:Torment

Still, it is true that it is a visual medium, so screenwriting might still be applicable, I just think that the dialogue / prose is a lot more important than the screenplay.

I'll drop you a PM in a short while with some more info on the project and some illustrations I have had made!

/Temaran
 

Temaran

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cbenoi, I appreciate the input!

I'm aware of the hurdles involved. The nice thing about hobby projects is that you can throttle it though. You don't have to make concessions to meet deadlines, you only have to be aware of your scope. This is of course also very hard if you intend to make actual progress, but with discipline it is possible.

I appreciated the recommendation actually, I love JRPGs, and I've seen some cool stuff come out of RPGmaker (most recently Eternal Senia, a story driven ARPG-ish game was excellent (for what it is) and it was made in RPGMaker).

It's just not really usable for the type of games I'm interested in making.

In regards to the comments about distance and time, I agree that that is very important when it comes to the core game iterations, but I don't think it's as critical when it comes to the writing. At least not in the initial phases. When the writing intersects with the mechanics it's different of course, but then again, as long as you make it easy for the writer to work asynchronously it shouldn't be that much of a problem. It's quite easy in UE4 to expose all dialogue in importable formats, like xml, and then the writer is free to tinker without having to synch up with the build cycle at all. Not so with the other game assets.

/Temaran
 
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Melanii

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cbenoi, I appreciate the input!

I'm aware of the hurdles involved. The nice thing about hobby projects is that you can throttle it though. You don't have to make concessions to meet deadlines, you only have to be aware of your scope. This is of course also very hard if you intend to make actual progress, but with discipline it is possible.

I appreciated the recommendation actually, I love JRPGs, and I've seen some cool stuff come out of RPGmaker (most recently Eternal Senia, a story driven ARPG-ish game was excellent (for what it is) and it was made in RPGMaker).

It's just not really usable for the type of games I'm interested in making.

/Temaran

Not true, it can make some KILLER CRPGs. I've seen it! :D
 

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I didn't mean to imply that it couldn't! On the contrary!

But I'm a lot more familiar especially with Unreal Tech since I've used it for over 10 years (I had the opportunity to fiddle with UE2.5 for a bit, but I didn't really do anything with it. I did create some small test-projects in UE3/UDK, nothing released though, and I've also worked with UE3 source in a couple of the indie projects I mentioned earlier. I've been using UE4 constantly since beta, switching away from Unity), and since I feel a lot more free to implement things like continuous worlds, and cool effects with it, it's a better choice for me :)

/Temaran
 
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VeryBigBeard

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I am too tired to post much in this thread right now, except to say that Will's right. This is pretty much how you approach starting out an indie evenings/weekends project development. I usually try to start out with people I know really well offline, but that's not always entirely possible if skillsets work out that way and I'm glad Temaran has reached out. This is a pretty common way to connect with collaborators in the Unreal forums and such.

But to be blunt, because I'm tired, the questions are real and they don't concern ideology or GMOs or even what the game's about. The questions--and I say this as someone interested in this kind of gig, if it's a good fit--would be to do with the IP arrangements, the actual role and task you want a writer for (i.e., am I writing your idea or is this narrative design from the ground up?), and finally the business plan--99.9% of ambitious RPG projects fail and most of them you can flagpost it before the concept even starts. Are you really looking for a writer or do you really need a start-up consultant or producer?

Re: the engines. I love RPG Maker, it can do some great stuff if you know how to design for it, but it's not an engine. Not really. Not even that close, actually. I would, however, love to see some sort of prototype that proves what part of the market the game fills. That can be built alone, potentially in RPG Maker. Or it could be a pitch doc. Or some sort of portfolio, but honestly I'm less concerned with personal credits (though let's be clear, they help) than I am with seeing some actualization of the game that takes it from Really Cool Idea to This Is A Game.

PM me if you want. I'm at Global Game Jam this weekend so my response time may be slow, but I'd be interested to see what you have.
 

Melanii

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I am too tired to post much in this thread right now, except to say that Will's right. This is pretty much how you approach starting out an indie evenings/weekends project development. I usually try to start out with people I know really well offline, but that's not always entirely possible if skillsets work out that way and I'm glad Temaran has reached out. This is a pretty common way to connect with collaborators in the Unreal forums and such.

But to be blunt, because I'm tired, the questions are real and they don't concern ideology or GMOs or even what the game's about. The questions--and I say this as someone interested in this kind of gig, if it's a good fit--would be to do with the IP arrangements, the actual role and task you want a writer for (i.e., am I writing your idea or is this narrative design from the ground up?), and finally the business plan--99.9% of ambitious RPG projects fail and most of them you can flagpost it before the concept even starts. Are you really looking for a writer or do you really need a start-up consultant or producer?

Re: the engines. I love RPG Maker, it can do some great stuff if you know how to design for it, but it's not an engine. Not really. Not even that close, actually. I would, however, love to see some sort of prototype that proves what part of the market the game fills. That can be built alone, potentially in RPG Maker. Or it could be a pitch doc. Or some sort of portfolio, but honestly I'm less concerned with personal credits (though let's be clear, they help) than I am with seeing some actualization of the game that takes it from Really Cool Idea to This Is A Game.

PM me if you want. I'm at Global Game Jam this weekend so my response time may be slow, but I'd be interested to see what you have.

RPG Maker is an engine for sure. You can make a game with it - all kinds of games - and even sell it commercially. Even the newest one allows you to port to mobile devices. Don't be so silly. :p

I wish I could do the Global Game Jam, but I'm having my birthday party tomorrow. ;_;

@Temaran - A game making community might be best for this sort of thing, actually. Though maybe not as many writers dwell there. o.o
 

VeryBigBeard

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RPG Maker is an engine for sure. You can make a game with it - all kinds of games - and even sell it commercially. Even the newest one allows you to port to mobile devices. Don't be so silly. :p

I wish I could do the Global Game Jam, but I'm having my birthday party tomorrow. ;_;

@Temaran - A game making community might be best for this sort of thing, actually. Though maybe not as many writers dwell there. o.o

Happy birthday!

It's not technically an engine if we want to be picky about terminology. I think MV is closer, but Degica still bury a lot of stuff under the hood that you need in order to actually run off of it. So, like cbenoi said above, a lot of things are frameworks. Even Unity and UE. You can then engineer a functioning back-end of a game on top of them.

You can do that with RPG Maker, if you have someone who can script. But scripting =/= engineering. The RGSS is flexible enough that you can simulate a pretty good engine by using the built-in commands in creative ways and by pulling in new data to create new commands. As opposed, say, Unity where I can declare new public variables, I can literally rewrite the physics system, etc., all without actually having to repurpose the underlying framework.

RPG Maker exists somewhere in the grey area, I'd say. It's not not an engine. Not exactly. It also isn't an engine in the way anyone who's a coder using that term means it. But it can be creatively repurposed to do reasonably well as one, and it's a really functional way to make games because ultimately the engine doesn't matter as much as the design choices do. Gamemaker Studio is the same way--powerful piece of design software, some flexibility, not what you need if you're trying to create certain stuff. What Unity and UE are really good at is flexibility. They let an experienced developer come in and build off the framework. RPG Maker's framework is always going to limit what you can do.

Also, frankly, RPG Maker's asset integration can't hold a candle to Unity, which is probably the best for quick asset integration. Literally, if I want a PSD? I drag it in. Animation? Built-in animator. I've got direct in-editor control over the project folder, prefabs, hugely more default control over basic physics, and so on. Of course, if I actually want quality animation and physics I have to start doing more and more of it myself--drawback of Unity--and then something more advanced like Unreal starts to gain appeal.

To their credit, I think Degica are legit trying to compete with Unity more and more while still offering a design suite that's tailored for RPGs. This is good. And I still use RPG Maker all the time--am using it right now for a sample/prototype/early-stage game. I have nothing against it--all software has quirks.

It's really a question of market. So if I'm building a 3D PC-downloadable game that I want to sell at a $20 price point on Steam, RPG Maker is the wrong choice. Unity is probably good. Open-world game? Unreal, because it allows more control of memory usage. VR? Unity, because plugins. Small team with an offbeat, story-centric game that we want to try to build and market in scope? RPG Maker is a legit option. 2D JRPG? RPG Maker is a great option because it saves having to create a huge database manually. My little game I mentioned above started as an RPG but is evolving into more of a puzzle game as I prototype mechanics and throw away the ones that don't work. I'm also leaning towards using still photography for cutscenes, which RPG Maker will handle, in theory, though I haven't tested it yet. The more puzzle stuff I want to build, though, and the more RPG Maker's event systems feels limiting. And I can't really fix that, even if I had the skill to do it.

The worst mistake people make in small teams and game jams and such is trying to decide on an engine before they know what the game is or what they're trying to target. A concept or design core, even basic mechanics, can be really easily ported. So prototype in RPG Maker. Then build a 3D level slice in Unity. Do some physics concepts in Unreal. Play with other engines. Figure out what the game is, then find software that's going to create what you want from that game.
 
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