What about including photos?

Fruitbat, I don't have experience publishing proper books with photos, but my experience with printing photobooks as family albums leads me to believe that iphone photos likely won't be high enough quality for your project.

I don't have a fancy camera, just a point-and-shoot Canon ELPH (which I highly recommend), and its photos are worlds better than any I take with my ipad.

(Edited to add that my recommendation of the ELPH is not for this project specifically, for which it is likely not suited, just a general "rah rah" for a terrific little casual camera.)

Fruitbat said:

I am working on a how-to book with lots of photos. I have no idea what I'm doing with the photos.

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Might be time to rethink your outline of the book and think about working with a graphic designer.

Fruitbat said:

Are photos I take with my iPhone good enough?

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I can't see them from my window, so I can't directly answer that question. Maybe if you turn your iPhone to the East a little more...

They are far from the best option though.

Fruitbat said:

If I decide to send it around to publishers first rather than go straight to self-publishing, can I still just insert the photos where they belong in the text? I'm going to finish the book first either way, although I know I'll still have to send a proposal to potential agents or publishers.

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Time to rethink your process. Nonfiction is sold from a proposal and outline, never a full book. Your agent (yes, you should go to an agent first, though some publishers will take unagented submissions) will then help you with photo decisions. The proposal should mention photos, but it doesn't get them except in your sample chapters.

When you submit to the publisher, you will not be inserting photos into text. You will be adding a slug line, probably a caption, but the publisher will have a template for photos in your manuscript and you will submit photos as separate files. Their layout people and software will add the photos to the publication.

Fruitbat said:

If I finish all of this then find out my photos won't work, I'll be so mad. The book won't make any sense without them and they're step-by-step so I really have to find out if iPhone photos are good enough.

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One reason you never do the work until there is a contract. And, for a traditional publishing route, suitability of photos taken with your iPhone will be unlikely.

Now, self publishing is a different matter. You can do as you wish and, as a matter of the process, you have to. Publishing an instructional or how-to book and doing layout with the photos is way beyond the frame of a forum post and, again, you may want to talk to a graphics person about doing the layout.

With all that, the subject of your book may make the decisions for you. If the market or audience is too small for a traditional publisher to invest the time and resources, you may be going it alone. Sadly, many of the old standby nonfiction markets have gone this way, it's far too easy to find the information in someone's free blog than to bother paying for and reading a book. Then again, knowing that is part of the market research you need to do before even starting the project and which needs to be included in your proposal.

Jeff

My camera is a Canon PowerShot ELPH 110 HS, 16.1 megapixels.
My iPad is an iPad mini ME836B/A, which I believe has a 5 megapixel camera.

The iPhone 6plus seems to be 12 megapixel, which is certainly an improvement over previous phones!

If you find the photos you're taking to be sufficient, and you're self-publishing, then of course do whatever you think is best! If it were me, though, I would borrow a friend's fancy equipment. I use the ELPH because it's small, not because it's perfect. I can easily carry it, and my picture-taking doesn't distract my kids while they're doing whatever it is that I want to take a picture of. It does a terrific job. But my husband has a large setup with various lenses, which we use for special pictures, and his photos are on an entirely different planet.

A peacock family visited us over the summer. I took some shots with my beloved ELPH, and they were fine. Hard to take a bad pic of a peacock! Then my husband took some shots, and they were like something out of National Geographic.

Another thought is that, if the pictures are so important, it could be worth experimenting with iPhone photos as a rough draft to get the best angles, lighting, etc, and then use the results as a guide for a more polished shoot. I certainly wouldn't consider it to be time wasted if the photos had to be taken again.

Good luck! Wishing you results that match the ideas in your head

PS Both self-publishing and trade publishing have their uses, and it sounds like with a niche how-to self-pub could be a perfect fit. But I take issue with your description of trade publishing as "follow[ing] orders for money." My publisher is my partner, not my boss. We all want what's best for the book, and I'm grateful for their input and expertise. They don't give orders; we have conversations. We respect each other.

It's still not about "following orders" though. That frames it as an adversarial power struggle. Yes, if you're going to partner with somebody, waiting may be the best thing to do so that you both have input into how the product is shaped. That's not waiting for a superior's "permission"; it's waiting for a partner's good ideas and the benefit of their expertise.

Which of course you don't have to do if you prefer to self-publish. But if someone else does want a publisher and therefore does wait, it doesn't mean that they're caving in to "the man," y'know? Which is what phrases like "waiting for permission" and "following orders" imply.

And even if you did want to pursue trade publishing, you wouldn't have to not write. No one would stop you from drafting your book however you saw fit, and that draft would likely strongly clarify your message and shape your proposal (not to mention give you crucial sample chapters).

Anyway, sounds like you're set on self-publishing, and that your subject is probably a good fit for that, so best of luck!

Fruitbat said:

@Weaselfire- While I realize nonfiction books are sold on the basis of a proposal and so on, that's not my main goal. I'll probably send a proposal around to see if anyone with enough to offer is interested before I self-publish it. And I'd have to see how to submit the images if they wanted to see the manuscript, but that's the limit of my interest there. If a decent-sized publisher is interested in the project I've done, that would be great but doing it their way doesn't appeal to me. (If I wanted to follow orders for money, it would make far more sense for me to just go back to work). But that probably does appeal to many, so that was still a great post.

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Skip the process of submitting proposals then, you're going to need to self publish to meet your goals.

Fruitbat said:

Since my original post, I've researched dpi required for Createspace and Kindle. If anyone else is wondering, it appears that the iPhone 6 Plus (I don't know about older iPhones) should do the job provided your photos will be no more than 4" x 6" in the book. If it works for CreateSpace, I'd guess it works just as well for any publisher, since they're both printed books. If anyone has more knowledge on that, please share!

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You have some basic misconceptions here. First, DPI is far from the first thing you need to look at in photography or publishing photos. A high resolution, out of focus, poorly lit and poorly composed photograph sucks no matter what resolution. Second, when considering DPI, realize what the printed versus electronic page will handle. Paper type, ink process and printing process all come into play. And third, you're assuming that you'll have no cropping to your photos, which is rarely the case, especially with cell phone images.

Cell phones are not appropriate for photographing images to be used in a book. It's a hard truth, and I doubt it will change your mind.

Fruitbat said:

Also, just an fyi for anyone interested, many publishers do accept nonfiction books directly, which differs from fiction.

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Nope, it's about the same as far as traditional publishers go. In fact, many nonfiction publishers are far more used to dealing with unagented work, such as the entire textbook industry.

Fruitbat said:

Now I'm looking up inserting photos on Createspace, which is also a pain.

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Welcome to the world of self-publishing.

Fruitbat said:

My other how-to books don't have images so this is a PITA I've been avoiding so far. However, not using images really restricts the how-to books I can do so it's a bullet I'll have to bite.

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Wow. I have yet to see a successful how-to book with no images, especially published in the last decade, self published or traditional.

Fruitbat said:

If anyone has relevant experience, do share! I'm also interested in info. on images vs. cost.

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Not sure what your question is. Are you referring to cost to produce or the final book price to the reader? If the latter, photos don't change the selling price, just the marketability.

Fruitbat said:

If self-publishing, there's an additional problem of arranging the images in the text. I won't be hiring anyone for that but I will consult some books with images for pointers. Has anyone done it?

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Done it plenty. With your skill level and the questions you're asking here, your choices are to hire it out or spend the next decade learning the process, after buying the necessary tools of the trade. You won't do either, and you likely won't invest in the proper software, so going through the CreateSpace process or other self-publishing options is where you're at. Start by reading the instructions for those services, the information is all in there.

Fruitbat said:

The problem is of course that when you insert your images where you want them, there's often not enough space left on that page for the whole image to fit, so the image inserts on the next page instead, and you're left with a big gap on the current page. So you have to balance that problem with also having the images flow as seamlessly as possible so the reader doesn't have to constantly flip back and forth and get annoyed.

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Since you're not hiring it done, this is something you'll need to learn. Sorry I can't teach you that in a forum post, nor can I give you the skill to do it. Practice and learn.

Good luck. It's easy to get published, if that's all your goal is.

Jeff

Fruitbat said:

I probably wasn't clear enough in my original post so let me start over and focus my question better. Does anyone know for sure if iPhone Six-Plus is, or is not, good enough for photos for a print book?

If I can just get that answered for sure rather than the "maybe" that's all I've been able to find, that would be great!

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Unfortunately, the correct answer really is "maybe." The question has way too many variables. For example, in a how-to book on taking photos with your iPhone 6, photos from your iPhone 6 would not only be suitable, but mandatory. If your book is on how to identify microbes on the tentacles of anemones in the Adriatic Sea, your iPhone won't cut it. Nor would a Canon Elph.

Your iPhone sucks in low light or high contrast situations. It does pretty well for selfies on a roller coaster. It will take a passable street view of a house or building, but there are no shift or tilt functionalities to correct either parallax or depth of field. The flash will work for casual photos of your friends, but there is no fill flash capability or the ability to use studio lighting. There are no optical telephoto abilities so all you can do to zoom in closer on your subject is degrade the resolution by using a partial segment of the array or by inferring missing data using an algorithm that may or may not be correct.

So the answer is that, yes, your iPhone is perfect. Unless it's not. And the only way you'll know is to shoot with it, create your publication and look at the final product. Doing a comparison with a photo that's professionally taken on high quality equipment would let you see thye limitations of your iPhone as well as determine if the iPhone capabilities are good enough for your product.

Jeff

Fruitbat said:

I am working on a how-to book with lots of photos. I have no idea what I'm doing with the photos.

Are photos I take with my iPhone good enough?

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Probably not.

I've spent all of my editing life working on non-fiction books, and a good proportion of that time working on highly-illustrated non-fiction. You need very sharp, high-resolution photos if you're going to reproduce them in a book: the papers most commonly used in book production aren't very good for printing pictures on, so the pictures instantly lose a bit of clarity and if they aren't the very best from the start, you're stuffed.

If I decide to send it around to publishers first rather than go straight to self-publishing, can I still just insert the photos where they belong in the text? I'm going to finish the book first either way, although I know I'll still have to send a proposal to potential agents or publishers.

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Include a few photos in your proposal, to show your intentions. You don't have to insert them into the text: include them in an appendix, and number them, then add "insert image xii here" at the appropriate point in the text.

If I finish all of this then find out my photos won't work, I'll be so mad. The book won't make any sense without them and they're step-by-step so I really have to find out if iPhone photos are good enough.

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I'd find a much better camera if you are going to go ahead with this.

Fruitbat said:

If I wanted to follow orders for money, it would make far more sense for me to just go back to work

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Not only is this comment a misrepresentation of how trade publishing works, it's dismissive of writers who take that route.

Since my original post, I've researched dpi required for Createspace and Kindle. If anyone else is wondering, it appears that the iPhone 6 Plus (I don't know about older iPhones) should do the job provided your photos will be no more than 4" x 6" in the book. If it works for CreateSpace, I'd guess it works just as well for any publisher, since they're both printed books. If anyone has more knowledge on that, please share!

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DPI is not the only thing to consider. And while the photos you've taken might be acceptable for CreateSpace etc., they aren't going to get you the best results and they might well end up giving you really poor results. The last thing you want to do is publish a book which looks poorly-done, and which relies on blurry ugly greyscale shots to get your message across.

Why not download a dozen of your pictures to CreatSpace now, bung in a bit of random text, and order a proof copy to see how the pictures look? It would show you what to expect, so if the results weren't good enough you'd not lose any more time. And the last time I used CS I didn't have to put the book up for sale, so it's not like anyone will see it.

Also, just an fyi for anyone interested, many publishers do accept nonfiction books directly, which differs from fiction.

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They do indeed. But this is changing, and some are moving to an agent-only model.

Now I'm looking up inserting photos on Createspace, which is also a pain. My other how-to books don't have images so this is a PITA I've been avoiding so far. However, not using images really restricts the how-to books I can do so it's a bullet I'll have to bite. If anyone has relevant experience, do share! I'm also interested in info. on images vs. cost.

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My only experience of illustrated non-fiction is with trade publishing. I do know that such books are much more expensive to produce than non-illustrated books, so sales have to be higher to make it worth doing.

If self-publishing, there's an additional problem of arranging the images in the text. I won't be hiring anyone for that but I will consult some books with images for pointers. Has anyone done it?

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My experience is that inexperienced designers will not produce a good-looking book. Layout of a highly-illustrated book is a very skilled job, not only because one has to ensure text flows properly around the images but because one has to ensure that the book has a good rhythm to it: one doesn't want lots of images on RH pages only sequentially, for example, followed by one on a LH page, and then back to RH. Typesetting and layout for such a book is a huge challenge, as you indicated in your next para:

The problem is of course that when you insert your images where you want them, there's often not enough space left on that page for the whole image to fit, so the image inserts on the next page instead, and you're left with a big gap on the current page. So you have to balance that problem with also having the images flow as seamlessly as possible so the reader doesn't have to constantly flip back and forth and get annoyed.

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This takes a lot of skill to get right. I've spent days in designers' offices working with them to get pages to sit right. It's amazing how many details have to be taken into account to do a good job. By all means have a go yourself, but recognise that you're going to miss things and make mistakes. Be prepared to order several rounds of proof copies, and if possible get a few other people to go over those proof copies for you too. It's hard work.

Sometimes iPhone photos are more than good enough, and sometimes they're rally terrible. The trouble with taking photos with a phone is that consistency is missing, and you have very little ability to do anything other than close up, framed shots, if you want professional quality. Even then quality can be lacking. But a good photographer can make an iPhone work. It's really more a matter of your skill level, rather than the quality of the software.

You submit photos however a given publisher asks for them, and my experience is that each publisher has slight differences. They don't matter. When the time comes to send photos, they'll let you know exactly how they want them.

What is it you have against doing it "their way"? If you want to have any success self-publishing, you need to know what their way is, and you need to duplicate it. The difference os that a publisher has a specialist at every part of the job, but you'll have to do everything yourself. This is not as easy as many think.

WeaselFire said:

Wow. I have yet to see a successful how-to book with no images, especially published in the last decade, self published or traditional.

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I stand corrected. I grabbed a copy of Fruitbat's book off Amazon and, while I can't determine whether it's successful or not, it would be an example of a how-to book which does not require photographs. I ran through a number of writing how-to books I have and, while some have images and diagrams, many of the successful ones do not.

Jeff

Hi Fruit--

My book was published with more than 50 photos and images. The book designer wanted all the photos and images transferred as TIFF files. Some of these photos for taken from newspapers in the 1960s and 1970s and other documents. He was able to clean them up. It also depends how large you want to include your photos--the bigger the photo, the higher quality resolution you'll need so it will show up.

If you haven't already, have you considered contacting the Apple people or your local Apple store and the Genius Bar? They would be your best bet to know how to use your iPhone for the best resolution. And contact some smaller independent publishers and simply ask them; I've found them all to be very helpful and they could provide you with the specifics.

Good luck!

Fruitbat said:

Can anyone suggest a good camera, like the cheapest one that you think would be a reasonable choice for print quality photos? Is it all about the mega-pixels, then?

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My choice for the exact use you describe was a Canon EOS 70D. With tripods, lighting and lenses, I have about $2,500 invested in it, which is near the minimum for professional level equipment.

But, you can get by with pictures from a lower price camera. High DPI is not as important as the control available to you, as well as accessory and lens availability. Anything with interchangeable lenses, over 12-16 DPI (kind of depends on the frame) and that can be set to time, aperture and manual settings in addition to the standard automatic program settings.

The real key to all this is your ability, so practice with the camera. Learn how to use it well and your photos will improve dramatically. Learn proper composition, lighting and focus control. There are a ton of tutorials on the web, as well as how-to books available.

Lastly, in buying a camera, look for last year's hot model at a standard discount store like Walmart, Best Buy, etc. Then go to Amazon and see if you can get a better price. You can buy a basic camera and lens, then add other needed lenses later, or go for a package, which may save you overall but cost more up front.

Reference sites you want:

http://www.dpreview.com/
http://www.kenrockwell.com/
http://www.cameralabs.com/
http://www.digitalcameraworld.com/
http://www.digitalphotopro.com/
http://www.tomsguide.com/

My qualifications: I have a decade of professional studio photography doing portraits, product photography and event photography, plus a number of years in photojournalism and professional darkroom (yes, old school) work. My wife is a graphic designer who has worked on various publications for two decades, doing the exact tasks you're facing in your publishing and layout of photographs.

Jeff

1. You need at least 300 DPI resolution for print. Avoid .jpg or other compressed image; use TIFF or PNG. Various publishers have guidelines for images; look at some of them for a general idea.

2. Do not insert the images into the ms. if you're thinking you'll be approaching a publisher. It's a royal PITA to deal with them later.

3. Label your images consistently as in

Fig_01_Chapter_01

or

Fig_23_ch_2_night_blooming_jasmin

I would suggest that you do not consecutively number all the images; rather, consecutively number them for each chapter.

4. In the place where you plan to insert the image do something like this:

[[Fig_23_ch_2_night_blooming_jasmin]]

Caption: The Night-blooming Jasmin often blooms in the day as well.

Probably too late to answer this but in case anyone else pops in I can give some insight. The phone is out. You will need a camera that takes high resolution images. Phones are meant to take low resolution pictures that load quickly when you send them or post to Facebook etc. An iPad might work if it's set to save high resolution images in the gallery.

Basically, you need the images at least 300 dpi (dots per inch) to reprint well. The book I just finished (in my siggy) I needed about 55 images. These make big files some of my were 20 Meg's or more. Way to big to send via a phone, which is why phone images are small. If you try to stretch the photo to make it bigger, it gets pixelly. The images used on the cover had to be 600 dpi. i used Dropbox to transfer them to my publisher.