Rape in Diana Gabaldon's Outlander

Er, I don't understand the question.

Are you surprised/shocked at rape being portrayed in various mediums?

Um, if so...Uh, you probably need to read (or watch) more fiction.

Rape (and the threat of rape) has been in fiction since, like, forever. There are tons of rape scenes everywhere, including all sorts of TV shows and stuff.

There were some Romance books that had the hero sort of raping the heroine in the past (the 80s, I think?), so rape is not a new thing in romance / romantic fiction.

Since...you know...rape exists in real life?

It is based on history and reality - rape happens to guys, not just girls, and neither is a new phenomenon. It was a rather graphic, shocking section of the book, though it was meant to be.* G. R. R. Martin gets flak for his brutality in his A Song of Ice and Fire series, but much of it is based on history, too. It's not new, and it has been mentioned in fiction long before Martin or Gabaldon.

I'm also not sure if Outlander was originally written as a romance or as a time-travel historical fiction; I see it in different places in the bookstores. The length leads me to suspect it was originally historical fiction (or specfic, for the time travel element) that crossed over genre lines in marketing and sales.

(* - I really have to wonder if Jamie was a stand-in for some particular guy Gabaldon hates... she really runs him through the wringer on every conceivable level. Personally, though, I was more disturbed by the MC's method of "curing" him of the psychological fallout...)

Cobalt Jade said:

The hero is also raped, quite brutally and sadistically, as a titillating plot point. Which came as a surprise to me, as I thought that in the romance genre heroes are generally NOT raped. I know that in many, many fanfic stories there's rape and brutalism a-plenty, but not that it's crept in to a mainstream book. Am I just naive? Or is this a new trend? Or should I just read more?

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Whoa, hold on.

I've never read the Outlander series, but I've watched the show. Jamie's rape scene is supposed to be a sexy rape scene? Just because a rape scene happens on-screen doesn't mean it's supposed to be sexy.

Cobalt Jade said:

I thought that in the romance genre heroes are generally NOT raped. I know that in many, many fanfic stories there's rape and brutalism a-plenty, but not that it's crept in to a mainstream book. Am I just naive? Or is this a new trend? Or should I just read more?

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To answer your question-- yes, in mainstream m/f romance novels, it's unusual for the hero to get raped.

But like Amergina said, Outlander is Outlander. Sometimes stories don't fit neatly into genre conventions.

Outlander is its own thing, just like Twilight and 50 Shades of Grey are their own thing.

I think it's more of a historical SFF (time travel?) story with a strong romantic storyline. I'm guessing it got a wide enough appeal to be marketed as a romance kind of story.

There are always exceptions, and some books can be blended into various genres, especially if it's a popular enough book that has crossover appeal, etc.

bunny-gypsy said:

There were some Romance books that had the hero sort of raping the heroine in the past (the 80s, I think?), so rape is not a new thing in romance / romantic fiction.

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Happens in more recent romances too. I've read one published in 2005 where the heroine is crying, struggling and saying "Get away from me" while the hero forces himself on her. Later she accuses him of raping her, he retaliates with "You didn't say no" and she shuts up, thinking to herself that he's right, because she never actually said the word "no".

Marian Perera said:

Happens in more recent romances too. I've read one published in 2005 where the heroine is crying, struggling and saying "Get away from me" while the hero forces himself on her. Later she accuses him of raping her, he retaliates with "You didn't say no" and she shuts up, thinking to herself that he's right, because she never actually said the word "no".

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Ugh. That's kind of why I'm not a huge lover of adult m/f Romances (and some shoujo romance anime/manga, etc). The woman would resist a lot at first (and sometimes accuses the hero of rape or scandalous behavior), but then convinces herself (or is convinced by the hero) that she actually enjoyed it ("her body was saying 'Yes!'").

(Ugh. I hate the pushy male routine so much. A love interest that aggressive turns me off, actually. I dislike aggressive/possessive Alphas or arrogant people with the passions of a thousand suns.)

ETA: Random off topic: Maybe that's why I'm starting to enjoy General Fiction or Chick-Lit with the woman either having an awesome, chill, non-aggressive guy, or with the woman going off on her own and doing her own thing, lol. And cute MG or lower YA crush storylines (less aggressive males).

There's a reason an entire class of romance novels are called "bodice rippers." (Not that Outlander really fits that designation; it's more of a historical novel/epic.) In (mostly) old school romance, it seems that a good/pure heroine wasn't allowed to agree to any sort of physical relationship with the hero, so the only choice was to have him overpower her because it's what they both "really wanted."

bunny-gypsy said:

Ugh. That's kind of why I'm not a huge lover of adult m/f Romances (and some shoujo romance anime/manga, etc).

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To be fair, there are a lot of adult m/f romances where the heroes wouldn't dream of raping anyone, and where the heroines would never meekly acquiesce to sex being forced on them as long as they got a great orgasm out of it.

(Ugh. I hate the pushy male routine so much. A love interest that aggressive turns me off, actually. I dislike aggressive/possessive Alphas or arrogant people with the passions of a thousand suns.)

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Most of the time, these turn me off too. I could take such a hero if he had enough positive qualities to compensate for being aggressive, and if the heroine was strong enough that she didn't allow anyone to control or dominate her. Unfortunately, a lot of hyper-alpha men get paired with women who aren't able to stand up to them.

If you're talking about 1991's Outlander, that's hardly new, that's 25 years old...

Personally, I like books where you freeze and go "WTF!?" and hold the book away from you lest it bite you. Be this through rape, eating (of/the) babies, or literally throwing a person under a bus. As long as no cat gets hurt. I don't care if it's unethical or glorifies atrocities, I mean, it's fiction, it's not a gateway for me to commit any of those deeds or approve of them in real life. Pokémon is one huge glorification of dog/animal fights. Naruto? Training 12-year-olds to kill and proudly be killed. Or commit suicide because your client needs you to. Like Hamas. And Kony's child soldiers. That is Naruto, folks. And we love it. Don't get me started on Game of Thrones. Would anyone care much for Danaerys had she not been groped by her brother and sold into sex slavery as her personal trial by fire? Who didn't stop short and hold their breath when Arya encountered the pedofile in the brothel? Who didn't go "Whoaaaaa" when Jaime more or less forced himself on his sister that one time? Rape may become cheap, but it will never leave one cold, unlike murder.

Rape has always been and always will be, a cheap plot device, an easy way to justify a character's development and actions. It's an extreme thing to happen to a person, extreme enough to lead to extreme consequences, but not final or irreversible like death. It's the kind of experience many victims will put right second to death for worst things that can happen, so it's the ultimate extreme an author can go to without killing a character. It's readily available, too: rape sadly happens very easily and easily damages a person. Rape can turn a person's personality around 180°, including their attitude, outlook, and will to live, and trigger mental illness.

Rape, the word, creates discomfort. The mere word makes people cringe and think of the worst that can happen to a person. To the reader, rape is 3rd party shame, taboo, horror, violence, humiliation, sex, and all their consequences, all in one act. I have a rape in my MS and I find it hard and extremely uncomfortable to write that word rather than beating around the bush with "what had happened to him" or "that time at the checkpoint".

Rape is also so horrible beyond the physical, that it creates protective feelings and pity in many readers. There are readers who want to hug the character through his/her story, sweat and shiver for them, baby them. It's why we love Hachi, look at that poor foolish dog waiting in the cold for his dead owner to return... Many want something horrible to happen to a loved character, just so they can hold his/her hand and cheer them on.
Some people enjoy gawk-fests, schadenfreude, and witnessing pain. Be it for sadism or, in my case, a need for big feelings and shudders and nails on chalkboard. I've been reading a lot of torture porn lately like The Flesh Cartel or Broken. I don't know if it's my inner sadist or the softy who wants someone to pity, I like it. How do I feel about rape in real life? Death penalty.

As sick as it may be, rape as content is simply universally "appealing", it's easily available and has something for everyone to have strong reactions to, whatever their nature. Get their rocks off, feel outraged, pity the victim, identify,...

Viridian said:

Whoa, hold on.

I've never read the Outlander series, but I've watched the show. Jamie's rape scene is supposed to be a sexy rape scene? Just because a rape scene happens on-screen doesn't mean it's supposed to be sexy.

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I read the book > 10 years ago, but my recollection is that Jamie's rape was not intended to be sexy AT ALL. (I certainly didn't read it that way.) And he suffers tremendous psychological consequences afterward.

Sexual violence is not "historically accurate." This post dealing with the rapes in GOT explains this in a succinct manner.

http://meloukhia.net/2014/08/rape_fantasy_and_historical_accuracy/

And I wholeheartedly agree that in entertainment, rape often is used as a lazy shorthand for high emotional impact.

Marian Perera said:

To be fair, there are a lot of adult m/f romances where the heroes wouldn't dream of raping anyone, and where the heroines would never meekly acquiesce to sex being forced on them as long as they got a great orgasm out of it.

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Oh, dear! XD I hope I didn't imply that all romance heroes and heroines are this way. Of course, there are non-rapist and non-meek characters in romances out there.

I still read some romances (usually Historical and maybe some gentle, "wholesome" contemporary romances). I love historical romances, especially Regency-era, and those kinds of romantic settings. :3

I think it's more like my tastes have changed, and sometimes, my tastes just don't match what many romance readers read or something.

It could be a change of taste thing. I'm more for the cutesy romantic feelings than the sex, and I prefer sweet, sensitive, gentle Beta-like heroes. (Like the male protagonists found in some anime/manga kind of guys.)

I'm also more interested in how a couple fares and overcome obstacles, and/or an external plot, as a couple--after they officially get together (or after their HEA ending), if that makes sense?

I'm wanting to see couples work together as they work through life's problems (ie. pregnancy; raising children and parenting issues; dealing with relatives and friends; feelings of insecurity; keeping the relationship together; jealousy; etc), or working through an external plot.

Again, that could be my tastes changing, or maybe I'm just burnt out on Romance-genre fiction in general... Well, that, and I'm a lesbian, hee.

I don't know. I'm having trouble finding m/f Romances I actually enjoy reading (outside of some types of Historical Romances).

I'm finding I'm starting to prefer Chick-Lit or General Fiction with a romance subplot.

It's weird. I like romantic stuff, but I tend to have a hard time with Romance-genre stuff at times.

Marian Perera said:

Most of the time, these turn me off too. I could take such a hero if he had enough positive qualities to compensate for being aggressive, and if the heroine was strong enough that she didn't allow anyone to control or dominate her. Unfortunately, a lot of hyper-alpha men get paired with women who aren't able to stand up to them.

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Might be the "opposites" attract thing?

I don't really like that mentality, because I feel that there are some people who could be too opposite of each other to really get along, lol.

lizmonster said:

I read the book > 10 years ago, but my recollection is that Jamie's rape was not intended to be sexy AT ALL. (I certainly didn't read it that way.) And he suffers tremendous psychological consequences afterward.

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That's what I figured. Thanks for answering.

Cobalt Jade said:

From reading fanfic for so long, I do think rapes can be titillating, in the pleasurable, want-to-read sense, not the erotic sense. There is a subgenre of explicit fanfic called rapefic, where the MCs are raped and the aftermath is dealt with. Sometimes it's more of a character examination, other times an extremist thing, like the author wants to see how far they can push the shock and horror.

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Ah, okay. When people call a rape scene titillating, I think they generally mean the rape scene is erotic. Not that the rape scene is interesting.

But I see what you're getting at. What Outlander did was unusual, I agree.

Could be my faulty memory, but I don't think Jamie's rape was explicit in the book. There is very little sexually explicit content at all in the Outlander books. Allusions, metaphors, some mention of body parts and positions, but really...not much. I think the most graphic description was in the next book when he tells Claire what happened, and still, it was left mostly to the imagination. I don't watch the TV show, but it's my understanding from friends who do that the scene on the show was WAY more graphic and specific, and was filmed with a lot of focus on Randall, which made it much more cringe-worthy than what was written by DG.

Definitely correct me if I'm wrong; it'e entirely possible I've self-sanitized my memory of it...

ElaineA said:

Could be my faulty memory, but I don't think Jamie's rape was explicit in the book. There is very little sexually explicit content at all in the Outlander books. Allusions, metaphors, some mention of body parts and positions, but really...not much. I think the most graphic description was in the next book when he tells Claire what happened, and still, it was left mostly to the imagination. I don't watch the TV show, but it's my understanding from friends who do that the scene on the show was WAY more graphic and specific, and was filmed with a lot of focus on Randall, which made it much more cringe-worthy than what was written by DG.

Definitely correct me if I'm wrong; it'e entirely possible I've self-sanitized my memory of it...

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I may have forgotten as well, but my recollection is that Jamie's rape happens off-screen. He does tell Claire about it when he's rescued (that happens in the first book, which is the only one I've read), and he's unambiguous about what happened, but I don't remember extremely explicit language.

I don't have my Outlander handy at the moment but I too don't recall it being explicit. I do remember Jamie saying to the effect that the worst wasn't the sadism or the pain inflicted, but that "he made me rouse to his touch." He hated Randall for what he did, but he was sick and revulsed at himself for his response.

I'm familiar with the Outlander series (excepting the most recent release which is in my huge TBR pile at the moment), and I participated at length on the old CompuServe writing boards where the author frequented. She has explained that she didn't write this as a romance. It's time-travel historical fiction. And probably could be considered 'epic' too, now, considering the length and time span of the series...

Rather, her agent and publisher strategically marketed the original book to the romance community. Because... huge market, voracious readers, & etc. After the first, they have marketed it across the board, not just to rom community.

IMO, none of the near-rape or rape scenes in the series are treated or intended to be titillating. I certainly didn't read any of them that way (yes, there are others over the thousands of pages in this series). The one you refer to in particular is disturbing, happens offscreen (told through the victim's eyes afterwards), and more attention IIRC is spent to the aftermath and impact. And, of course, foreshadowing future motivations and actions...

If you continue, you should do so with the adjusted understanding that neither Outlander nor the others in the series are intended to be traditional Romances and will not hold to the genre's common conventions (e.g. rape, monogamy, & etc)

I recently read a m/f Historical Romance (published in 2014 by Avon) that had the hero raped when he was held captive in his past. It's called, "Destiny's Captive" by Beverly Jenkins, who writes historical romance books with POC main characters. (It's easily found in my brick and mortar Barnes and Noble, and it's definitely a Romance genre book.)

Thread title is a little, um, sensational...