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I probably knew this once and forgot. I know for a singular possessive it's Noun's, and for a plural its Nouns'. Which is correct for proper name that ends in 's', i.e. Kris?
Possessive apostrophe in a name ending with s
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That is handled in a few ways, according to personal preference:
Kris' and Kris's are the most common forms, and there are reasons for each, so people can call you wrong either way.
Kris' and Kris's are the most common forms, and there are reasons for each, so people can call you wrong either way.
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FWIW, I did (e.g.) Kris' throughout my manuscript, and my copy editor changed all of them to Kris's.
But yeah, as long as you're consistent, I suspect it doesn't matter. AFAIK neither is wrong.
But yeah, as long as you're consistent, I suspect it doesn't matter. AFAIK neither is wrong.
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I believe it's fine to write "Kris's," though there are some odd and random rules about Biblical figures (for some reason, you're supposed to write Jesus', not Jesus's, even though it's pronounced the latter way) and names that sound with a "z" sound when made possessive.
As long as a person isn't using apostrophes for non-possessive, plural words, I'm good.
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I'm finding that most books I'm reading in recent years seem to be going with Kris's, or even the boss's and Jess's. The "rule" seems to be that if two distinct S or SZ-ish sounds occur when you say it, then that's how you spell it. I gather there are still exceptions for gods' names and Jesus. So I doubt you'd get into trouble doing it that way.
Maryn, who finally got comfy with James's
Maryn, who finally got comfy with James's
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That interpretation makes sense, Maryn (thanks!). And thanks for the question, OP.
I've been going round in circles on this in my MS. I always thought it was supposed to be Jess' then kept reading books where it would be written Jess's. At one point I ended up thinking screw it, I'll just call her Jessica every time to remove the issue
I write it how I would say it. For pretty much all personal names, that's with an s: Thomas's, James's, Jesus's.
It's a bit more complicated with surnames. Do I say the Roberts's grandma is in jail, or the Roberts' grandma is in jail? I think it varies. Either use is acceptable in speech, but the former seems more consistent in writing.
It's a bit more complicated with surnames. Do I say the Roberts's grandma is in jail, or the Roberts' grandma is in jail? I think it varies. Either use is acceptable in speech, but the former seems more consistent in writing.
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For surnames, I'd have it as Roberts'. Of course, if I do that and also follow through on Maryn's rule-of-thumb for first names, I'm now going to be inconsistent.
Well, crap.
I'm just gonna rename everyone...
Rather than renaming everyone, we could simply impose a rule that possessives of names must be in the form: the rule of frank, or the house of the Roberts.
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Hehe.
The only time this actually comes up in my MS that I can think of (for surnames) is one mention of "the Matthews' front door" which is easily work-aroundable
In reality, I think so long as you're consistent throughout, either form is okay. As with everything, consistency is key.
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If the family name is Roberts, I would make the possessive with two sounds--the roberts-es front door--so I'd spell it Roberts's. But I would not use the second S sound for Matthews, so I'd do Matthews' front door.
And a really good editor would ding me for inconsistency. So yeah, be consistent even when it galls.
It's of some interest to me that this is a clear case of a living language changing within my lifetime. When I was young, it was James', Roberts', etc. but that is no longer the case. Hell, before I die I may even have to accept OK.
Maryn, not okay with that
And a really good editor would ding me for inconsistency. So yeah, be consistent even when it galls.
It's of some interest to me that this is a clear case of a living language changing within my lifetime. When I was young, it was James', Roberts', etc. but that is no longer the case. Hell, before I die I may even have to accept OK.
Maryn, not okay with that
Tip from a former copy editor: If you'd like a definitive answer about s possessives, check out the Chicago Manual of Style. It's the style guide for the industry - if a publisher doesn't use it in its entirety, it most likely served as the foundation for the publisher's house style. You can grab a hard copy or sign up for an online subscription. It offers free access to its Q&A, though, which can be really handy.
For example:
Q. When indicating possession of a word that ends in s, is it correct to repeat the s after using an apostrophe? For example, which is correct: “Dickens’ novel” or “Dickens’s novel”?
A. Either is correct, though we prefer the latter. Please consult 7.15–18 for a full discussion of the rules for forming the possessive of proper nouns. For a discussion of the alternative practice of simply adding an apostrophe to form the possessive of proper nouns ending in s, see paragraph 7.21.
For example:
Q. When indicating possession of a word that ends in s, is it correct to repeat the s after using an apostrophe? For example, which is correct: “Dickens’ novel” or “Dickens’s novel”?
A. Either is correct, though we prefer the latter. Please consult 7.15–18 for a full discussion of the rules for forming the possessive of proper nouns. For a discussion of the alternative practice of simply adding an apostrophe to form the possessive of proper nouns ending in s, see paragraph 7.21.
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Get a new copy editor. Or tell yours who the boss is. That one sucks. Can't wait to see what he does when two words in a row end in s, and one of them needs that apostrophe. It's going to sound look like a snake hissing.
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It's actually correct. Check any competent style manual.
However, for fiction writers, I have a small recommendation, which I have used on occasion: Change the name so it doesn't end in "s".
caw
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Yes. My copy editors sent a cite list with their changes. That, and the fact that they found some continuity issues as well, makes me more inclined to thank them than to want to get rid of them.
Also a good idea, if the usage is bothersome.
If it's any comfort, "OK" is the original form and "okay" a later back-formation, so some Maryn of yore had trouble accepting the change in the other direction.
The really primitive form, often employed by my father, is:
"Well, I'll be damned."
caw
Nope. You have to make it plural before you make it possessive, which you do by adding es to the name. If the family name is Roberts, they are the Robertses, and they live in the Robertses' house.
ETA: Same applies to Matthews. It's the Matthewses, and the Matthewses' house.
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On behalf of the copy editors who are required to follow Chicago, may I just say that this is rude and uncalled for. Just because YOU don't like something that is stylistically correct doesn't make it wrong, nor does it make those whose job is to make a manuscript conform to it "suck." It's possible for most reasonable people to disagree about matters of style without throwing around insults.