SPOILER WARNINGS !!!!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens (redux)

Beachgirl

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***SPOILER ALERT***
This thread contains SPOILERS! Lots and lots of spoilers!

Another thread was started about The Force Awakens, but it started with the question of whether anyone else walked out of the movie. As such, the thread just didn't feel like the appropriate place to discuss all of our impressions about the movie, reveal spoilers, share the tidbits we may have gleaned as to possible future plot points, or hash through all the interwebz gossip and speculation as to Rey's parentage. So, I decided to start a new thread. Below is what I posted in the other thread, but I've also added some extra comments at the end, including a SPOILER ALERT.

*****************
From previous thread:

I sat through A New Hope as a 10-year old girl in 1977 and fell in love with everything Star Wars was. From the moment that first star destroyer glided onto the screen, I was hooked. I grew up with it, had the posters on my walls, was a card-carrying member of the original fan club, and even majored in Film Production during my first go-round in college because I was convinced I wanted to work in special effects. The first book I ever wrote, back in high school, was a 200-page Star Wars fanfic. I read EVERY DAMN BOOK of the massive extended universe (and may be harboring a tad bit of resentment that they've been unceremoniously tossed in the non-canon garbage heap). Star Wars was a huge part of my world. The original trilogy could do no wrong in my eyes.

When the prequels came out, I was convinced they would be everything I wanted. Unfortunately, they didn't look, sound or feel like the Star Wars universe I knew and loved. I did grow to enjoy them eventually and I appreciated having more backstory, but they never took hold of my heart or imagination like the original movies.

So, while I have been incredibly excited about The Force Awakens, there has also been an undercurrent of trepidation rippling through me for weeks. Was I getting my hopes up again, only to be underwhelmed the way I felt when I finished watching The Phantom Menace?

I bought tickets for myself, husband and son weeks ago ($18.94 each for IMAX 3D). I've been on spoiler lockdown, threatening to unfriend or do bodily harm to anyone who dared reveal even the tiniest detail. We waited in line for almost 3 hours (we were second in line), wearing our vintage Star Wars t-shirts. The excitement was tangible. But still, that nagging fear gnawed away somewhere deep down inside me.

I needn't have worried. Yes, the movie relied very heavily on nostalgia, but I desperately wanted nostalgia. I needed it. I wanted to be 10-years old again, transported to another time and place in a galaxy far, far away. I wanted this movie to be unmistakably tied to the original trilogy in a way that would be impossible to unravel. I wanted the familial conflict, I wanted a continuation of the original characters, I wanted a Corellian freighter-load of throwback references and tie-ins.

The Force Awakens delivered everything I was hoping for, and then some. The scenes that played out so similarly to scenes from the originals were some of my favorites. For 2 hours, I was that 10-year old little girl again, eyes wide with wonder and literally sitting forward on the edge of my seat. Now, much like I was after A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back, I'm left with a dozen unanswered questions about what comes next and the secrets yet to be revealed. The next installment cannot possibly come soon enough.

*******

SPOILER ALERT!!! If you don't want your virgin experience of Star Wars ruined, RUN AWAY NOW!

Okay, so now I've spent the last 24 hours combing through every reddit thread, review and nerdy website I can find to read opinions on Rey's parentage (Oh, please, please, please let it be Luke! But who would her mother be???), what happened to turn Ben/Kylo Ren to the dark side (Luke, what the hell did you do to the kid during training?!?), who Snoke really is (Could he be Darth Plagueis, who legend says had found the key to immortality, and maybe was only thought to have been killed?). So many questions, so few answers.

My personal feeling is that Rey is Luke's daughter. Star Wars has always been, at it's heart, a story about the conflict within the Skywalker family. It would make sense that the two new wielders of the opposing sides of the Force would both be Skywalkers. If Rey and Kylo are first cousins, one being on the light side and the other on the dark, it would continue the family saga into the next generation. I just have a hard time seeing them inject Rey as a random character from random parentage, with no Skywalker bloodline.

I know the extended universe was thrown out, but there were some obvious things that had been borrowed from it. Ben/Kylo seems to be a reference to Jacen, who turned to the dark side. Ruthless, but conflicted. Rey seems to be a combination of Jaina and Anakin (Han and Leia's youngest son). She's a phenomenal pilot, a tinkerer, and is extremely strong in natural force ability... even stronger that Kylo, it seems. So if they're borrowing elements from the EU, who's to say they wouldn't also recreate Mara Jade in some manner?

That's it for my spoilers, so it's okay to look again! ;)
 
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mellymel

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Thank you, Beachgirl for starting this new thread!!!!! That other one was KILLING me.

*Spoilers*

I'm also thinking Rey is Luke's daughter. There's no way they will do the metachlorian thing again because they already did that with Anakin's character. Then I was thinking maybe it's some other unknown Jedi, but I can't imagine who. Then I was thinking about the scene when Rey has a memory from when she was little and the part when she hears Luke's light saber calling to her and it just makes sense that they are somehow connected/related. It will sure be interesting to have Luke and Leia's kids going at it on opposite sides.


Also, someone mentioned to me that JJ Abrams is not directing the next one. Has this been confirmed???
 

Cyia

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My original thoughts on Rey's parentage are in line with yours, mel, but then I had this out of left field thought that maybe she's a gender-flipped clone of Luke, or even a hybrid clone of Luke and Leia. It would definitely be a twist.
 

Beachgirl

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I've read that Rian Johnson is directing Episode VIII, which makes me think it will have a darker feeling, much like Empire had. It makes sense if this trilogy is going to closely mirror the theming of the first trilogy.
 

angeliz2k

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I loved the movie, too, Beachgirl. So many feels. I think my favorite thing was Kylo Ren, though I loved Rey as well. I know some people have belly-ached about the plot similarities to A New Hope, but clearly that was intentional, and I think it makes sense in large part because of your theory, which is my theory, too. If Rey is Luke's daughter, then it's less random that her story echoes his. And thematically, it works, because it becomes now a hero's journey with a heavy helping of history-repeats-itself, which can be a theme unto itself (the hero might win, but that doesn't mean that more bad people won't pop up in the future to threaten that victory). On a story-telling level, you have to think about why Abrams made the choices he made--which most people seem to think was his attempt to play it safe, but I think it's that plus a way to link Rey to Luke.
 

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I'm in the loved it camp. Going to re-watch the day after Christmas in 70mm, at a theater where someone built a life-sized Millennium Falcon replica. The chemistry between Ridley and Boyega was stellar. I pretty much loved everything about Rey. I posted most of my thoughts in the Trailer thread, so I'm not going to rehash them all here, but I agree with everyone's theories about Rey's origins.

The only thing that bothered me is I kept wondering why Boyega had an American accent, but Ridley kept her British one. I know, that is seriously nit-picky and I'm sure they decided to do it because of their respective characters' origins, but I adore Boyega's natural accent and kept missing it.

I guess one other thing. I thought Adam Driver did a fantastic job, however, his voice and inflections were no different than his speaking voice on Girls (which is a show I'm just kind of meh about). So in the scenes where he's trying to get the map from Rey, the way he spoke to her sounded like when he was fussing at Hannah for doing something on Girls.
 
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Corsairs

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Just to confirm, Rian Johnson (Looper) is indeed directing Episode VIII (coming May 2017), while Colin Trevorrow (Jurassic World) is directing Episode IX (coming sometime in 2019). Meanwhile, Gareth Edwards (Godzilla) is directing the first Star Wars spin-off film, Rogue One (coming next Christmas), while the Han Solo spin-off film coming May, 2018 will be directed by Chris Miller and Phil Lord (The LEGO Movie). We don't yet know the director for the third spin-off film (coming in 2020 and rumored to center around Boba Fett).
 

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I thought the film was phenomenal! I was a bit worried @ first, thinking it wouldn't meet my expectations, but sure enough, I was hooked when Kylo Ren stopped Poe's ray beam mid blast. There's so much to love in the Force Awakens from the excellent performances, the humor, the well choreographed fights, and BB-8! Oh my god, BB-8 stole my heart! I didn't want it to end, but I walked out of the theatre with the biggest grin on my face. I'm actually tempted to watch it again sometime this week.
 
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Stiger05

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Something I forgot to ask about: what's up with 3PO's red arm? I thought they'd toss in an explanation, but nada. It's just a weird thing to toss in and ignore.
 

Beachgirl

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Something I forgot to ask about: what's up with 3PO's red arm? I thought they'd toss in an explanation, but nada. It's just a weird thing to toss in and ignore.

It was a bit of an Easter Egg, wasn't it? From what I've gleaned, this is explained in one of the recently released comics (at least, I think it was a comic). Now I'm going to have to dig around to find it.
 

Corussa

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I assumed that was to enable the comment about why he thinks he wasn't recognised (not really a spoiler, but I'm being extra cautious for others!), but maybe I'm missing something...

And for the record, I thought The Force Awakens was awesome, and am planning to go and see it again this week! It was everything I wanted it to be. Especially the humour. :D
 

KTC

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One of the few who didn't run to the box office to see this one. But my son did! He bought his tickets months ago. AND HE LOVED IT! I seriously can't wait. I just didn't want to bother with the frenzy...I think I'm getting cantankerous in my dotage. The movie on my radar for this past weekend's releases was CAROL. So I went to see that one instead. No line-ups...but it was still impressively a full theatre...all things considered.

This does not mean I'm any less excited about seeing the movie. I am...will probably see it before Christmas. My son is champing at the bit to tell me about it...and I'm champing at the bit to let him. But no. I will see it soon. I know I will love it!
 

Cyia

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Something I forgot to ask about: what's up with 3PO's red arm? I thought they'd toss in an explanation, but nada. It's just a weird thing to toss in and ignore.

It's actually one of the callback details. 3-PO has always had mismatched parts, but they're subtle (one of his legs is silver) and people don't really notice. The red arm just makes it more obvious.
 

angeliz2k

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I'm in the loved it camp. Going to re-watch the day after Christmas in 70mm, at a theater where someone built a life-sized Millennium Falcon replica. The chemistry between Ridley and Boyega was stellar. I pretty much loved everything about Rey. I posted most of my thoughts in the Trailer thread, so I'm not going to rehash them all here, but I agree with everyone's theories about Rey's origins.

The only thing that bothered me is I kept wondering why Boyega had an American accent, but Ridley kept her British one. I know, that is seriously nit-picky and I'm sure they decided to do it because of their respective characters' origins, but I adore Boyega's natural accent and kept missing it.

I guess one other thing. I thought Adam Driver did a fantastic job, however, his voice and inflections were no different than his speaking voice on Girls (which is a show I'm just kind of meh about). So in the scenes where he's trying to get the map from Rey, the way he spoke to her sounded like when he was fussing at Hannah for doing something on Girls.

Re: Adam Driver: I guess that's the trouble with casting someone who's somewhat known (which is why going with an unknown for Rey was crucial). I've only seen Driver in two movies, so it wasn't a problem for me.
 

CrastersBabies

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Saw it again in 3D. Interesting thing I noticed that I hadn't the first go....

Spoilers about Ren/Rey... >>> When Kylo Ren was in Rey's head and saying, "You're so lonely. I see water, an ocean. And I see the island..." It matches up with where Luke was at the end of the film. So, either Luke and Rey had this connection and she was dreaming about where Luke was the whole time, or, she was dreaming about the future which is what jedi sometimes did: seeing visions of the future and whatnot.

Just an interesting thing I noticed. Others probably caught it the first time around.

I'm wondering how long it will take Kylo to realize that Rey's island is where Luke is. If he ever does....
>>>>

END spoilers
 

CrastersBabies

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Vince, very interesting. >>>> While it would be interesting if she were Luke's progeny somehow, I think people fail to realize that jedi were all over the place in the past. Awakening across the galaxy. I don't recall the prequels speaking too much to genetics, but maybe I'm forgetting. It's okay to forget some of that. (Will ignore the midichlorian crap)

I think what I'm trying to wrap my head around is this: the jedi weren't supposed to marry, correct? Devote their lives to the cause? I would assume that if there is a genetic component, these blokes have to be having some sex. Somewhere. Doing stuff. I do not know beyond the movies, so other spin-offs or whatnot might have answered this. Or, maybe they were really celibate? If so, then the force would not be genetic? Because eventually, if the jedi aren't doing the horizontal mamba with others, they aren't going to continue the line.

Hope that all makes sense.

I think we have some options:

1. Rey is from a force-sensitive descendant. Like Luke or Obi Wan's family. I think Luke is very obvious and people will automatically be drawn to that, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. But, being a relative of Obi Wan... I like that idea. Especially since she was really triggered by Obi Wan's lightsaber.

2. Rey is just a spontaneous appearance. Like Anakin.

3. Rey is from some other line?

I think to get to this, we need to figure out how the force manifests. Which you and others may have more information than I do...
>>>
 

Thelassa

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Vince, very interesting. >>>> While it would be interesting if she were Luke's progeny somehow, I think people fail to realize that jedi were all over the place in the past. Awakening across the galaxy. I don't recall the prequels speaking too much to genetics, but maybe I'm forgetting. It's okay to forget some of that. (Will ignore the midichlorian crap)

I think what I'm trying to wrap my head around is this: the jedi weren't supposed to marry, correct? Devote their lives to the cause? I would assume that if there is a genetic component, these blokes have to be having some sex. Somewhere. Doing stuff. I do not know beyond the movies, so other spin-offs or whatnot might have answered this. Or, maybe they were really celibate? If so, then the force would not be genetic? Because eventually, if the jedi aren't doing the horizontal mamba with others, they aren't going to continue the line.

Hope that all makes sense.

I think we have some options:

1. Rey is from a force-sensitive descendant. Like Luke or Obi Wan's family. I think Luke is very obvious and people will automatically be drawn to that, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. But, being a relative of Obi Wan... I like that idea. Especially since she was really triggered by Obi Wan's lightsaber.

2. Rey is just a spontaneous appearance. Like Anakin.

3. Rey is from some other line?

I think to get to this, we need to figure out how the force manifests. Which you and others may have more information than I do...
>>>

It seems to me that >>>>> Rey is Luke's daughter. She is so strong in the Force that she managed to override Kylo's mind powers and turn them back on him the moment her powers awakened. That could also be due to the fact that they share a common bloodline. Love them or hate them, the prequels established that genetics could play a significant role in someone's affinity for the Force. Luke was the only son of a Jedi they were aware of (canonically, now), and he was stronger than Anakin. Also, Luke's lightsaber responded the moment Rey touched it, but it didn't react at all to Finn. If the films still adhere to the lore of Jedi (can't rememberwhat all has been non-canonized), then a lightsaber's crystal is attuned to the Force. The Jedi meditates on it before constructing their saber to imbue it with the Force, so it basically contains some of Luke's essence. And it reacted when someone with a familial connection to its maker touched it. The real question, for me, is: who is Rey's mother? I did wonder how the heck they found Luke's original lightsaber, but it's not impossible and Maz Kanata is the queen of the smugglers and pirates, so she definitely knows how to get her hands on things.

I'm also interested in Finn's potential, since Kylo felt his hesitation during the attack on Jakku, and both he and Snoke then spoke of feeling an awakening, suggesting that the Force is also in him.

I've seen some criticism of Kylo Ren because he's "whiny," but he isn't half as whiny as Anakin (or Luke in A New Hope, for that matter). I loved his character. I love how they portrayed him. He isn't a Sith Lord, he's still relatively new to the Dark Side and he's still conflicted. Instead of a Jedi being tempted by the Dark Side, we have a Sith being pulled to the Light, and I think that is brilliant. Usually, a Jedi makes a single choice and then, boom. Full Sith, no remorse, no doubt, no conflict. Give them a black robe and a symbolic mustache to twirl, and that's that. Kylo is still tormented by his choices and by the path he has taken. That, to me, makes him far more interesting than the prequel Sith Lords, and many of the Extended Universe Sith Lords. Also, when he was locking sabers with Finn and plunged one of the secondary plasma beams into Finn's shoulder, I wanted to say "THAT is why you put a cross-guard on a lightsaber!" Speaking of Kylo v. Finn/Re
y, I was so happy to see that the coordinated dance routines of the prequels have been abolished in favor of good old-fashioned sword fighting. I was reminded of the intensity of the battle between Luke and Vader in ROTJ.
>>>


Overall, I loved the film. Star Wars feels like Star Wars again, and I will be waiting with bated breath for Episode VIII in 2017.
 
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Beachgirl

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I just read that one of the upcoming "new canon" novels will be titled "Bloodlines" and takes place six years before The Force Awakens. Very interesting title, considering the rampant speculation regarding parentage.

ETA: It releases Spring 2016.
 

Rebekkamaria

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The original Star Wars is my childhood saga. I lived and breathed the movies, growing up. The prequels were terrible so I expected nothing from this one and was surprised by the awesomeness. I loved Ren. I loved Rey. I loved Finn. I loved Poe. And the look! Whoa! So real. Finally another Star Wars movie that actually looks like one. It isn't perfect. It has a bit too much nostalgia for my taste. It's too quick and too slow in parts, but it doesn't matter because the heart is there. So my ten-year-old heart loved every second of it. :)
 

Beachgirl

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All I'll say in addition to what I said it that Rey has an accent like Obi Wan, not Luke.

I've wondered about Rey's accent, too, but wouldn't that be more a product of where she's grown up and the accents of those she's around most? If she was about 5 when she was dropped off on Jakku, she would have had around 15 years for her accent to be influenced by the voices around her. Plus, we have no idea where or with whom she spent her first five years. What if she was primarily with her mother, not her father? Or if she was around a variety of beings from different locations, like maybe with her parents at her father's Jedi academy, and just happened to pick up that particular accent?

Of course, this just brings me back to the question that is searing a hole in my brain -----> If Luke is her father, who the heck did he get down with???
 
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CrastersBabies

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So, I've done some more research here and it seems that most SW resources agree (including Lucas) that >>>> Jedi are not sworn to celibacy, but are not allowed to get married and form those types of emotional attachments. So, Anakin did the no-no when he married, not when he had the sexy fun times with Padme. Luke did show that he had an attraction toward women (with Leia pre-sister bombshell--eww, I know--but still).

We'll see what happens. Either way, I'm fairly confident that Abrams won't take the BS midichlorians virgin birth, spontaneous conception story anywhere and keep it in the bloodlines. The only issue here is that Luke being Rey's father is pretty much the go-to theory that producers/writers might completely back off altogether.

Or not. We'll see. It was very refreshing to see them out Kylo as Han and Leia's son very early into the film as not to have a melodramatic moment that risked falling flat. They have to be careful with the surprise parent trope in this universe as the Vader "I am your father" moment was pretty much the centerpiece of the whole SW cake in regard to big reveals. Anything else trying to out-shine that is pretty much doomed to look overwrought and forced.

I felt like they handled Leia's reveal (as Luke's sister) in a good way. It wasn't a flashy, mic-drop moment. They went for the understated reveal and I think it worked well.
>>>