Inappropriate Erotica

I don't quite understand the question.

If you mean you don't know how to address it, he's asked for your opinion so I'd give it to him. Writing exercise or not, he may not realize that such a scene would not likely be well received by erotica editors or readers. If he plans to publish it, he should probably either re-categorize it as something other than erotica, de-sensualize the rape scene, or re-frame it as consensual roleplay within the story.

If you mean you're creeped out reading it, it's always fair game to just return it to him and tell him you're sorry but you just found it too upsetting to finish reading so you're not the best beta reader for it, or something like that.

ETA: If none of the above apply, just critique it as you would anything else. Does the scene accomplish what he's trying to accomplish? If so, say so. If not, point out where you think it didn't work and why, as well as any mechanical errors and so on. Hope that helps.

I think it... sort of depends?

From a practical standpoint:
If he wants to seek publication, most publishers will not take books that include rape for titillation. Romance readers in particular don't generally like reading about rape (for lots of complicated reasons). If his story is just erotica, though (not necessarily romance) it might be easier to find an agent or publisher.

From an ethical standpoint:
Personally, I don't think there's anything unethical about rape scenes in erotica. Some people fantasize about rape; no big deal. If the victim is portrayed as falling in love with their abuser, that might be more problematic.

Well, there can perfectly be a rape in an erotica book if either scenario is true:

1) the rape is supposed to get your rocks off/be erotic
2) there are other, consensual sex scenes that make the erotica part of the book

They're not mutually exclusive. My book has both consensual and non-consensual sex in it, and lots of questionable consent. I still consider it erotica, and which part of it the reader chooses to find erotic is none of my business: thoughts are free.

What is appropriate in terms of market is entirely up to the publisher. There is rape erotica. Any judgement beyond that would be a matter for each of you individually and your relationship.

Nerdilydone said:

Uh, well the story involves the rape of the MC's girl, right in front of the MC. She then insists he sleep with her directly afterwards.

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That's kind of interesting. Can you tell us why she wants him to sleep with her right afterwards?

There is a market for pretty much every kind of story. I am wondering if the issue might be more whether it was appropriate for your friend to ask you to read this material. I, personally, am careful about who I ask to beta my more extreme erotic fiction.

Nerdilydone said:

Uh, well the story involves the rape of the MC's girl, right in front of the MC. She then insists he sleep with her directly afterwards.

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Okay, but what is it that you don't know what to do about?

If it icks you out, why not just include that with your other beta notes. After all, he has requested your input.

Nerdilydone said:

Okay, so I'm beta reading for a friend of mine (he isn't on this site), and he's writing "a story I would never write" in order to get stronger at writing. That in itself is a debatable hypothesis, but he's decided to go with it and write an erotica. Thing is, his story includes a scene where his MC murders a rapist. The rape is described in detail. I feel that including a rape in an erotica book is wrong, as erotica is all about welcome sensuality, not the unwelcome. Then again, the only reason why I'm reading this is for beta-swapping, and I don't normally read erotica.

So, does anyone have any opinions on this?

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If you're truly offended by the content, and that is your right, bow out, call the swap off. I assume that you weren't forewarned, right?

veinglory said:

There is a market for pretty much every kind of story. I am wondering if the issue might be more whether it was appropriate for your friend to ask you to read this material. I, personally, am careful about who I ask to beta my more extreme erotic fiction.

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This is my thought. As someone who writes some more "extreme" stuff, I'm choosy about who I show it to.

I'm getting the sense that neither the writer nor the OP are really comfortable enough with the (sub)genre to work with it. It sounds like the story itself might be confused when it comes to whether it's a fantasy or meant to be realistic and dark. And the OP, who isn't comfortable with this material, probably isn't in a position to critique it.

You might also point out that quite a few romance publishers have clauses against rape presented 'for the purposes of titilating the reader' or similar. My publisher has this worded quite strongly in both their submission guidelines and contract. That applies to both their Dreamspinner imprint, which publishes erotica and the Harmony Ink YA line.

Nerdilydone said:

I object to it based on how I don't feel that the scene matches the nature of an erotica. Quite frankly, being turned on by rape is a sign of mental depravity

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Rape fantasies are natural and normal. Lots of people have them and enjoy reading about them within a fictional context. It doesn't mean they condone rape or want to be raped or want to commit rape. Frankly, just because something doesn't fall within your personal value system or your definition of what's erotic, doesn't make it wrong for others or for the genre as a whole.

Much of the erotica we find on Amazon today is meant for titillation. This isn't always the case. Some erotica, especially literary erotica, would not be considered sexy to a lot of people and isn't necessarily meant to be. It's the focus on the sexual journey that defines erotica, not the acts themselves or how sexy the reader feels while reading them.

It sounds like you aren't your friend's target audience, and that's perfectly fine. You have as much of a right to get squicked out by non-con erotica as others do to enjoy it. My advice is, either tell your friend you don't feel comfortable reading his story, or read it and be as honest as possible. But please, don't attempt to define an entire genre based on your personal opinion. Sexuality is complicated and varied. No need to yuck anyone else's yum.

Nerdilydone said:

Quite frankly, being turned on by rape is a sign of mental depravity

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To echo StoryofWoe, rape fantasies in erotica might not be your cup of tea, but being turned on by one is not a sign of mental depravity. A quick Google search on the topic shows how common rape fantasies are, and how little they have to do with real-world rape.

One example:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...s-rape-fantasies-how-common-what-do-they-mean

From the article: What do rape fantasies mean? In my opinion, they are no different from any other fantasies. They are neither wrong nor perverted. They imply nothing about one's mental health or real-life sexual inclinations. They just happen, to somewhere around half of women.

Nerdilydone said:

He's my friend, and we beta read each other's stuff. I object to it based on how I don't feel that the scene matches the nature of an erotica.

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Here's the thing, the genre of Erotica does not have the kind of mentality you seem to expect. There is erotica for everything including things you, I or the Supreme Court consider obscene or just plain evil. But given that a few decades ago homosexuality was in the same bucket, the Erotica genre in general flat out does not judge. Erotica is fantasy sex just like procedurals are fantasy murder no matter how lovingly described. People write what they like, publish what they wish and read what they want, because: free speech. Even legally obscene material by the US definition, which does not include rape, circulates in certain venues and overseas (this being a forum with international participation.) This has been pretty clear in the replies here even though you chose to ask the question in the romance/WF sub-forum not the Erotica sub-forum, because many of us write in both genres.

If the material is morally objectionable to you that is a matter for you and your friend to negotiate. If he is not writing this as a romance book, it does not need to meet the requirements of that genre (although, full disclosure, I have written two erotic romance books with titillating non-consent scenes and both were published by mainstream epublishers). This story may well be in a genre you are not familiar with or comfortable critiquing--a squicked out beta is pretty much never a good thing and I would suggest politely removing yourself from that role.

Nerdilydone said:

Quite frankly, being turned on by rape is a sign of mental depravity

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Hi, I'm one of the millions of people you just called mentally depraved.

I hope you feel awkward now, because DAMN I feel awkward too. Sort of like when you start bad-mouthing someone you hate, and then you realize they've been standing right behind you the whole time.

People who have rape fantasies are everywhere, because rape fantasies are surprisingly common. Having a rape fantasy does not mean a person actually wants to be raped, nor does it mean a person wants to rape others.

The purpose of fiction is to explore things we would not actually enjoy in real life. For example, a thriller fan might enjoy reading about murder even though they think murder is wrong. An action fan might enjoy reading fight scenes even though they believe violence is unethical. A fantasy fan might enjoy reading about dragons even though a real-life dragon would be terrifying. A child might fantasize about going on an epic adventure in a fantasy land even though adventure is actually exhausting and painful.

These are all very normal things.

I'm going to echo everyone else about this. While Rape Fantasy isn't my thing and I find it very much squicks me out, I do try to not go yuck about it when the writer actually means for it to be a turn on. My objections are for when a writer is writing an otherwise run of the mill Fantasy/Adenture type story and writes a disturbingly sexy rape scene, because it feels out of place for the type of story being written. I'm of the opinion that a writer who wants to write Rape Fantasy should just write it instead of it being a one off thing in such a story. There's no shame in that IMO. I write Erotic Horror and that can squick people out too, but I'm perfectly content with that fact.

It sounds to me like you aren't the target audience for this story. I would tell your friend and make sure they really did intend the scene to be sexy.

Like others have said, it seems that you may simply not be the target audience for such a story.

As for the "inappropriate-ness" for erotica issue? Um, what? There's, like, erotica for everything, lol!

Also, some people do have rape fantasies and some even do role play fantasies. I occasionally read some (free, short) non-consent (and other "taboo") erotica here and there (both written and manga/anime forms), so I know there's all sorts of erotica out there.

If it makes you squeamish, you may need to mention this fact or talk it out with your friend. Or, maybe you need to pass on reading and/or critiquing the story.

Actually, Nerdilydone, there is a market for everything and anything when it comes to erotica. Actually, it was just a turn off for you because you are not the target audience. However, your friend's rape scene will not be view well by mainstream erotica publishers or readers. He might have to self-published this story or re-categorized as something else like transgressive fiction. Or he could always sell some of his work on gfy.com and some more fetish-geared companies will buy that type of erotica as is. Or he could even published it via Lot's Cave(this is a publisher who loves more darker works such as non-consensual). However, you did your job by giving him a good critique of his work.

Nerdilydone said:

Okay, so I'm beta reading for a friend of mine (he isn't on this site), and he's writing "a story I would never write" in order to get stronger at writing. That in itself is a debatable hypothesis, but he's decided to go with it and write an erotica. Thing is, his story includes a scene where his MC murders a rapist. The rape is described in detail. I feel that including a rape in an erotica book is wrong, as erotica is all about welcome sensuality, not the unwelcome. Then again, the only reason why I'm reading this is for beta-swapping, and I don't normally read erotica.

So, does anyone have any opinions on this?

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Nerdilydone said:

You guys are all answering the question subjectively. I'm referring to the objective question of whether or not rape is appropriate for an erotica story.

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That question has been answered. There is nothing inappropriate about rape in erotica.

It's only inappropriate if your friends wants to submit to markets where it would be a problem.

Nerdilydone,
I will answer your question. There is a genre called non-consensual erotica and it sells pretty well. Is rape really appropriate in erotica? Actually, it depends on the writer's views and what type of erotica they want to put out.Have you talked about this with your friend? Have you talked about this scene with him? Maybe your friend thought his story is erotica but it could be transgressive fiction. In transgressive fiction, you can get away with more taboo things than in more mainstream genres.

Nerdilydone said:

You guys are all answering the question subjectively. I'm referring to the objective question of whether or not rape is appropriate for an erotica story.

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Nerdilydone said:

You guys are all answering the question subjectively. I'm referring to the objective question of whether or not rape is appropriate for an erotica story.

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The thing you said earlier was insulting, and multiple people called you on it. I'm surprised you feel comfortable coming back here to ask for advice without addressing that.