Why is Fifty Shades a Romance if There is no HEA?

andiwrite · Nov 27, 2015

Ever since getting my book deal, I've been trying to learn about the romance genre. I noticed that Fifty Shades of Grey, the first novel in the series, is classified as "romance" by Amazon. In fact, it's current ranking is #21 in the contemporary romance category.

I haven't read the book yet, but I've seen the movie. I understand book 1 and movie 1 are similar, which I assume means book 1 ends with Ana upset and walking out on Christian. I also assume they get back together considering there are many more books, but how does this work with the romance HEA requirement? I always thought that even in a series, a HFN ending was at least required. Am I wrong about that? Or is this just a freak situation where the story became so popular that the rules no longer apply?

Curious to hear what you guys think.

Roxxsmom · Nov 27, 2015

andiwrite said:
Or is this just a freak situation where the story became so popular that the rules no longer apply?

I'm guessing it's this. It's my understanding that HEA, or at least a HFN, is the expected norm with romance and most romance imprints won't take on a manuscript that doesn't deliver this (though there is one that has a "bittersweet" line for tragic love stories or something).

One thing to consider is that 50 shades was self published first, and it became popular enough that way that it was picked up by a big-5 imprint (Vintage books) that doesn't specialize in romance. It's entirely possible that if she'd subbed it to a romance imprint before she was famous, they'd have told her it wasn't a proper romance.

Also consider that Amazon categories for sales ranks are a bit wonky sometimes. I've seen a couple of fantasy novels that are set in entirely secondary worlds that get cross listed under historical, and I've seen fantasy novels that don't have a central love story or a HEA cross listed under romance. I've even seen the same book listed under different subcategories for the hardcover, paperback and nook editions. :Huh:

StoryofWoe · Nov 27, 2015

Quick note: Fifty Shades was not self-pubbed. It was fanfic that was then altered and then pubbed by a small press before getting picked up by a big press.

I, too, have wondered about the sad ending and posed a similar question to which the very helpful Evangeline responded:

Evangeline said:
What you've described about your novel has become pretty standard in New Adult and erotic romance post-Fifty Shades of Grey (that is, following the protagonists over multiple books before they get their true HEA).

"[Title] is book one in an erotic romance trilogy/series in the vein of Fifty Shades of Grey/Sylvia Day's Crossfire series/[other similar books]" is an example of the type of pitch you'd write in your query letter.

So, it's my understanding that Fifty Shades has changed the game rather than simply serving as an exception.

I participated in a romance writing and selling webinar earlier this year in which the agent hosting the presentation said that one could pitch a book as the first in a series with a HFN. Of course, the first Fifty Shades doesn't even have that. According to Amazon, the books were released within two weeks of each other. Maybe the fact that the trilogy was complete at the time of publication had something to do with it. I wonder if having a series outline and at least a partial of the next book available would make a difference to agents.

Latina Bunny · Nov 28, 2015

Because it's extremely popular, of course. Special little snowflake that it is. It definitely changed some of the game (which is good and bad, I think), that's for sure.

Ravioli · Nov 28, 2015

Does their breaking up not qualify as HEA???

Cyia · Nov 28, 2015

You can't use 50SoG as a metric for anything related to books that have a more traditional publication path. It's an outlier and not held to the same standards.

I don't mean standards in quality; I mean standard benchmarks of timing and publication. Its momentum put it on its own track, so it's literally not in the same category as most other novels.

It started off as fanfiction of Twilight, which is categorized as a romance, so 50SoG became a romance, too. It's a complete series, and many of its readers consider it a single, whole story, so they consider the HEA as part of that story.

eparadysz · Nov 28, 2015

Cyia said:
It started off as fanfiction of Twilight, which is categorized as a romance, so 50SoG became a romance, too. It's a complete series, and many of its readers consider it a single, whole story, so they consider the HEA as part of that story.

I think this is a big part of it, and Twilight took four books to get to the HEA. And I think Twilight managed it because it's YA, where the genre expectations aren't quite as firm.

ebbrown · Nov 28, 2015

Ravioli said:
Does their breaking up not qualify as HEA???

I thought so. I was cheering for Ana.

And then came book #2.

Latina Bunny · Nov 28, 2015

Ravioli said:
Does their breaking up not qualify as HEA???

Perfect, lol! XD

Cobalt Jade · Nov 28, 2015

When the big name publisher picked them up, they already were a trilogy... one long book, really. There's a HEA at the end of the third book.

andiwrite · Nov 28, 2015

Roxxsmom said:
I'm guessing it's this. It's my understanding that HEA, or at least a HFN, is the expected norm with romance and most romance imprints won't take on a manuscript that doesn't deliver this (though there is one that has a "bittersweet" line for tragic love stories or something).

One thing to consider is that 50 shades was self published first, and it became popular enough that way that it was picked up by a big-5 imprint (Vintage books) that doesn't specialize in romance. It's entirely possible that if she'd subbed it to a romance imprint before she was famous, they'd have told her it wasn't a proper romance.

Also consider that Amazon categories for sales ranks are a bit wonky sometimes. I've seen a couple of fantasy novels that are set in entirely secondary worlds that get cross listed under historical, and I've seen fantasy novels that don't have a central love story or a HEA cross listed under romance.

Ah, that makes sense then. So ... it's basically as bad as Netflix with categories. I swear, some films on there are in just about every category. It makes them look like they have more movies than they actually have.

StoryofWoe said:
I participated in a romance writing and selling webinar earlier this year in which the agent hosting the presentation said that one could pitch a book as the first in a series with a HFN. Of course, the first Fifty Shades doesn't even have that. According to Amazon, the books were released within two weeks of each other. Maybe the fact that the trilogy was complete at the time of publication had something to do with it. I wonder if having a series outline and at least a partial of the next book available would make a difference to agents.

Thanks! This is what I was wondering about. I struggle so much with the HEA thing. I tend to write a series easier than I can come up with ideas for standalone romances, so I thought maybe it this was an acceptable thing to do, I could think up some ideas for a series where it takes a few books for the couple to really get their chance.

Another related question: Is it acceptable to do a series with the same couple where there IS a HEA (or so it seems) for each book but they keep breaking up in between books? I suppose in theory, you could. The only issue would be whether the audience starts to hate the couple and think they'd be better off alone, which some people seem to feel about Christian and Ana. Anyone know examples of other romance series like this? I'd like to read if so.

Ravioli said:
Does their breaking up not qualify as HEA???

Not for me!

I was bummed it ended like that. I would have much rather it ended in a HFN way, because their fight made no sense to me.

Cyia said:
You can't use 50SoG as a metric for anything related to books that have a more traditional publication path. It's an outlier and not held to the same standards.

A very good point. I guess it just struck me as interesting. All we hear is how romances MUST have HEA to be successful or you'll be shunned from this industry, and then here we have one of the most popular "romance" books without a HEA. I guess it attracted a lot of fans that weren't average romance readers.

Thanks for all the replies!

Viridian · Nov 28, 2015

eparadysz said:
I think this is a big part of it, and Twilight took four books to get to the HEA. And I think Twilight managed it because it's YA, where the genre expectations aren't quite as firm.

Twilight doesn't break any romance rules, though. Each book in the series ends with Edward and Bella together and happy. Just... not permanently.

andiwrite said:
Not for me! I was bummed it ended like that. I would have much rather it ended in a HFN way, because their fight made no sense to me.

That whole book made no sense to me. Christian says he's a sadist and he doesn't do romantic relationships. Ana doesn't like pain and wants him to fall in love with her. This is called being incompatible. The solution is to stop dating each other.

If Christian were a safe and sane dom, he never would have asked a vanilla woman to sign a contract to be his 24/7 slave in the first place. Masochists enjoy being beaten. If he wants to beat someone, he needs to find a masochist.

They need to learn to respect each other's boundaries.

[Sorry. I know people enjoy Fifty Shades and that's fine. I'm sure lots of people hate my favorite books, too. But OH MY GOD.]

Roxxsmom · Nov 28, 2015

Ravioli said:
Does their breaking up not qualify as HEA???

Lol. It is by my standards. Not judging BDSM relationships, but as one who has admittedly only heard of the book (and seen the movie trailers) and not actually read it or watched it (the whole "you need my permission to do X, Y and Z thing elicits horror in me, not sexual excitement, so I'm probably not the target audience), those people seemed really dysfunctional by anyone's standards.

My personal experience with getting involved with people with an eye to changing them into someone who wants what you do in a relationship has been ... disappointing. It's also something I learned to avoid after a couple of horrible experiences (once as the person who was supposed to change, and once as the person who secretly hoped the other would).

I'm wondering if the trend towards series in both self and trade publishing might be changing the game a bit for some categories of romance. Some readers still want stand-alone HEAS or series where there's a HFN at the end of each book, but maybe some like longer story arcs that take longer for the couple to get to a good place.

Ravioli · Nov 28, 2015

Roxxsmom said:
Lol. It is by my standards. Not judging BDSM relationships, but as one who has admittedly only heard of the book (and seen the movie trailers) and not actually read it or watched it (the whole "you need my permission to do X, Y and Z thing elicits horror in me, not sexual excitement, so I'm probably not the target audience), those people seemed really dysfunctional by anyone's standards.

My personal experience with getting involved with people with an eye to changing them into someone who wants what you do in a relationship has been ... disappointing. It's also something I learned to avoid after a couple of horrible experiences (once as the person who was supposed to change, and once as the person who secretly hoped the other would).

I'm wondering if the trend towards series in both self and trade publishing might be changing the game a bit for some categories of romance. Some readers still want stand-alone HEAS or series where there's a HFN at the end of each book, but maybe some like longer story arcs that take longer for the couple to get to a good place.

TBQFH, I only got to, like, page 50 or 80 in the first book and then literally threw it out the window. In the movie, they broke up because, while Anal Ana saw his dungeon and his baggage, a spanking she asked for ended up utterly traumatizing her and judging him and stammering at him with dismay to stay the hell away from her. Myself having been chained to a cross with my feet barely touching the ground, I'm wondering if Anal Ana ever truly paid attention to this dude's inclinations if a spanking sends her running for the hills.

andiwrite · Nov 28, 2015

Viridian said:
That whole book made no sense to me. Christian says he's a sadist and he doesn't do romantic relationships. Ana doesn't like pain and wants him to fall in love with her. This is called being incompatible. The solution is to stop dating each other.

I know a lot of people saw it that way. I think I just took it differently, but keep in mind I am only basing this on the first movie. I have avoided reading too much about the future chapters, so I could be wrong. But ... Christian seemed only mildly sadistic to me. I get he likes the whole control/punishment thing, but he was actually very caring. I expected some abusive, psychopathic, mind-control stuff, but he was surprisingly honest and appropriate with her. The only somewhat sadistic (and IMO, mild) thing he even does is belt her, but that was after she asked him to, and she never safeworded, so I didn't get why she was mad. I felt her reaction to the belting was abusive toward him, if anything.

Myself having been chained to a cross with my feet barely touching the ground, I'm wondering if Anal Ana ever truly paid attention to this dude's inclinations if a spanking sends her running for the hills.

Right? My thoughts exactly. She's young and weirdly inexperienced, so I guess it's forgivable if she doesn't get how S&M works, but come on. Dude wants to make her scream. He has an entire room devoted to it. Then she's surprised when she gets a spanking? She does realize some sadists electrocute their love interests, right? This story is as vanilla as an S&M tale could get, but I guess that's what it takes to go mainstream.

My personal experience with getting involved with people with an eye to changing them into someone who wants what you do in a relationship has been ... disappointing.

This is very true, but at least in the beginning, it seemed like they might want the same thing. Ana had zero experience, so it seems natural that she might want to experiment a bit to see if S&M is for her. Then again, I tend to think that our fetishes/turn ons form at a very young age, so maybe she WOULD know, even if she had never experimented. I should read the book, because I found it difficult to understand what Ana was thinking during the film.

It was a weird way to end a romance overall, but I'll admit it got me emotionally invested. These stories are genius. They create such opportunity for discussion and reach down into so many desires that a lot of us have. I really wish I had been smart enough to come up with this!

Viridian · Nov 28, 2015

andiwrite said:
I know a lot of people saw it that way. I think I just took it differently, but keep in mind I am only basing this on what I saw in the first movie. I have avoided reading too much about the future chapters, so I could be wrong. But ... I didn't see Christian as a sadist. He actually seemed caring to me. I went into watching the movie expecting some abusive psychopathic type, but I felt that he was very honest and nice with her.

(This is awkward.)

When I say sadist, I don't mean that as an insult. A sadist is not necessarily a bad person. A sadist is a person who is turned on by causing pain. And Christian is turned on by causing pain. I admit, I never watched the movie, only read the first book, but in the book it's clear he likes bruising her, spanking her, hitting her with a belt, ect. Factually, he is a sadist.

There's nothing wrong with being a sadist. My partner is a sadist, and that works out great for us, because hey, I'm a masochist. He's also one of the most gentle and caring people I know.

The only somewhat sadistic (and IMO, mild) thing he even does is belt her, but that was after she asked him to, and she never safeworded, so I didn't get why she was mad. I felt her reaction to the belting was abusive toward him, if anything.

I actually agree with this. I think Ana was in the wrong during this scene.

Ravioli · Nov 28, 2015

andiwrite said:
The only somewhat sadistic (and IMO, mild) thing he even does is belt her, but that was after she asked him to, and she never safeworded, so I didn't get why she was mad. I felt her reaction to the belting was abusive toward him, if anything.

I find both characters utterly unrelateable/unlikeable but this pissed me off so bad about Ana. She ASKS for the spanking, TELLS him to do his worst, which I'm sure he refrained from, doesn't use the safeword....

....OMIGOD STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM ME YOU SICK PERVERT OMG THAT HURT HOW DARE YOU OMG MY HEART JUST BROKE BOOHOO

andiwrite · Nov 28, 2015

Viridian said:
(This is awkward.)

When I say sadist, I don't mean that as an insult. A sadist is not necessarily a bad person. A sadist is a person who is turned on by causing pain. And Christian is turned on by causing pain. I admit, I never watched the movie, only read the first book, but in the book it's clear he likes bruising her, spanking her, hitting her with a belt, ect. Factually, he is a sadist.

There's nothing wrong with being a sadist. My partner is a sadist, and that works out great for us, because hey, I'm a masochist. He's also one of the most gentle and caring people I know.

I probably have no place to be discussing this story as I've only experienced a very small chunk of it. I agree, I just meant nothing very sadistic actually happens in the first film other than the belt scene. I have nothing against sadists!

Ravioli said:
I find both characters utterly unrelateable/unlikeable but this pissed me off so bad about Ana. She ASKS for the spanking, TELLS him to do his worst, which I'm sure he refrained from, doesn't use the safeword....

....OMIGOD STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM ME YOU SICK PERVERT OMG THAT HURT HOW DARE YOU OMG MY HEART JUST BROKE BOOHOO

It's abusive.

I'm into my own variety of this stuff, and it's not necessarily something I've always felt good about. You can't help what turns you on. So when you put your sexuality out there and share it with a person you care about, and they turn around and judge you, that's traumatizing! It sucked, because I liked Ana for the entire movie up until that scene.

StoryofWoe · Nov 28, 2015

andiwrite said:
Another related question: Is it acceptable to do a series with the same couple where there IS a HEA (or so it seems) for each book but they keep breaking up in between books? I suppose in theory, you could. The only issue would be whether the audience starts to hate the couple and think they'd be better off alone, which some people seem to feel about Christian and Ana. Anyone know examples of other romance series like this? I'd like to read if so.

I'm not sure what you mean by "in between books." Do you mean they get a HFN at the end of book 2 and then book 3 begins sometime later, after they've broken up? Or do you mean the couple breaking up at the end of one book and getting back together in the next? As far as I'm aware (having only read the first Fifty Shades book, but spoken to people who've read the trilogy) book 2 ends with them still together. If they split up again in book 3, it's probably not for long.

Sylvia Day's Crossfire series might be worth looking into. From what I've read about the series (I have read the first, Bared to You) she's managed to draw her characters' HEA out over five books. Ava and Gideon do break up for a short time in Bared and I'm willing to bet they do again at least a couple of times over the course of the series. In fact, I believe that's one of the criticisms I've heard about the later books: that they keep repeating the same patterns of fighting, breaking up, having make-up sex, then fighting some more. Lather, rinse, repeat. I'm not sure if any of those end the way FSoG does though, as in, with the characters split up. Maybe that's the difference between a romance trilogy and a romance series: the trilogy is one complete story whereas the series is a collection of complete books. The arcs are different.

Viridian · Nov 28, 2015

andiwrite said:
This is very true, but at least in the beginning, it seemed like they might want the same thing. Ana had zero experience, so it seems natural that she might want to experiment a bit to see if S&M is for her. Then again, I tend to think that our fetishes/turn ons form at a very young age, so maybe she WOULD know, even if she had never experimented. I should read the book, because I found it difficult to understand what Ana was thinking during the film.

The book probably wouldn't have helped much. It doesn't paint her in a flattering light. She demands that he hit her... it hurts and she hates it... she's furious because omg he's a sadist and how dare he enjoy hurting women.

It was a weird way to end a romance overall, but I'll admit it got me emotionally invested. These stories are genius. They create such opportunity for discussion and reach down into so many desires that a lot of us have. I really wish I had been smart enough to come up with this!

Haha. You're a very positive person.

Honestly, I think it boils down to the fact that fans decide what the genre is. Fifty Shades is extremely popular, and ultimately the series does have a happy ending, so it's not that much of a stretch.

andiwrite · Nov 28, 2015

StoryofWoe said:
I'm not sure what you mean by "in between books." Do you mean they get a HFN at the end of book 2 and then book 3 begins sometime later, after they've broken up?

The first thing. I have one story that ends with a HFN that appears to be leading toward HEA. Then I wrote book two, which begins years later. They have broken up, but the MC isn't happy about it. Then unexpected circumstances push them back together, and they are finally able to work through their issues for good.

Sylvia Day's Crossfire series might be worth looking into. From what I've read about the series (I have read the first, Bared to You) she's managed to draw her characters' HEA out over five books. Ava and Gideon do break up for a short time in Bared and I'm willing to bet they do again at least a couple of times over the course of the series. In fact, I believe that's one of the criticisms I've heard about the later books: that they keep repeating the same patterns of fighting, breaking up, having make-up sex, then fighting some more. Lather, rinse, repeat. I'm not sure if any of those end the way FSoG does though, as in, with the characters split up. Maybe that's the difference between a romance trilogy and a romance series: the trilogy is one complete story whereas the series is a collection of complete books. The arcs are different.

I will look into those, thanks! The main thing I'm wondering about is whether your readers will forgive you if you give them a HEA then release another book that shows the HEA was just an illusion, and things didn't work out at the time.

Roxxsmom · Nov 28, 2015

This is where it gets awkward. My first boyfriend was probably a sadist and definitely a dominant personality. The problem is, I'm not a masochist nor a submissive type (though when young, I did end up being pushed around in relationships and agreeing to things I don't enjoy because I lack confidence and wanted to be loved and accepted), so my eventual concept of what he was included words like "control freak" and "asshole."

The thing is, there were no words to describe the needs he had back then. There was no community to teach people how to play the game safely in an environment of mutual respect and consent. Or if there was, he had no access to them. And it was all superimposed on some pretty F-ed up conceptions about gender roles and sex that existed back then anyway.

But even if it had been, it would have been moot, because we were incompatible. Sometimes people who are attracted to each other and click in some ways are just want and need different things from a sexual or romantic relationship.

But I do think a person who is experienced with BDSM and its conventions and who takes the dominant or "lead" role in such a relationship, especially if they're also a sadist who is "initiating" a naive sub and masochist (especially one who isn't even sure if they really lean that way yet and may just be trying it because they have a crush on the dominant person), has the bulk of responsibility for keeping things safe and for erring on the side of caution.

It's my understanding that 50 shades did a poor job of getting the realities of the BDSM dynamic across.

LJD · Nov 28, 2015

I've noticed this more in new adult romances. Or more generally, contemporary romances told in first person POV, that are hot/erotic, and often feature a young-ish heroine...whether or not they are called new adult. Like FSoG. Or the Crossfire series mentioned above. Asking For It/Begging For It by Lilah Pace. (First book ends on a hopeful note, but not HFN exactly as they have split up.) Maybe also Everything I Left Unsaid/The Truth About Him (M. O'Keefe) too. (I haven't read them.) There is also the Tangled series by Emma Chase, which is lighter...I think both Tangled and Twisted end with a HFN though. So there does seem to be a subset of romance in which this is a trend.

andiwrite · Nov 28, 2015

Interesting. Thanks for all the good book suggestions. I will be checking some of these out.

StoryofWoe · Nov 29, 2015

LJD said:
Asking For It/Begging For It by Lilah Pace. (First book ends on a hopeful note, but not HFN exactly as they have split up.)

I completely forgot about these. Yes, Lilah Pace's Asking For It is a great example of "How does this qualify as romance??" I guess I assumed it was erotica because of the ending, and like FSoG, it's placed in both Erotica > Romantic and Contemporary Fiction > Romance on Amazon, though it sounds like Amazon categorization is rather arbitrary. Then again, I could see it being a romance, too, when placed beside its sequel.

Or more generally, contemporary romances told in first person POV, that are hot/erotic, and often feature a young-ish heroine...whether or not they are called new adult.

I thought my WIP was going to be a cut and dry romance, but the ending turned out more hopeful than HFN. It's dual first POV with one character falling within the new adult bracket and the other wedged safely in adult. So, is it NA? It's very romantic, so maybe romantic erotica, but could it be romance if I were writing a trilogy or series with a defined romantic arc? I often see agents saying hey accept both NA and romance. I always thought NA was a category rather than a genre, but it seems like NA authors are regularly pushing boundaries within romance that I thought were set in stone.

Why is Fifty Shades a Romance if There is no HEA?

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