It's official, simulated games make me sick. Literally.

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mellymel

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Ugh. So upset. I don't have motion sickness on any modes of transportation (though I cannot go on any rides that spin), but when playing certain video games like Alan Wake or Tomb Raider (the newer ones), I become horribly nauseas and feel sick for hours. I'm so upset by this as I love these kinds of games, but the way they make me physically feel makes it impossible for me to enjoy, so I'm officially calling it quits on these kinds of games and selling them.

It's a sad day, my friends. A sad day indeed. :(
 

mellymel

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It's the looking around motion mostly, but it's everything. I get sick when I watch other people play as well. I also get really sick with those rides where it looks like you are in the movie (The Simpson ride at Disney made me so sick within seconds that I had to close my eyes for the whole ride). I did a little research and this is one of the theories as to why it happens:

The most commonly accepted theory for what happens when people feel sick during computer games is that the virtual world they're immersed in provides the illusion of motion – whether your on-screen avatar is walking, running or driving a vehicle – but the player's inner ear doesn't detect any such motion. The part of the brain that regulates vomiting – the area postrema – infers that this disconnect is as a result of hallucinations, and as this may be caused by poisoning, attempts to get the body to purge itself by vomiting. Most research in this area is of a military nature, as modern warfare relies heavily on simulation for training purposes. While they weren't playing Xbox 360 games, The US Army Research Institute for the Behavioral and Social Sciences also studied flight simulators and found that slightly fewer than half of pilots using them reported symptoms similar to motion sickness.
 
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kuwisdelu

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Do you mean like the virtual reality kind? If so, I recall reading some research that vastly improved motion sickness in VR headsets by adding a simulated nose.
 

VeryBigBeard

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Not to worry! Well, yes worry, but direct that worry at the game devs who made the game because this is a problem with the GAME, not you. It is perfectly natural to feel motion sick during games. There can be several reasons, mostly to do with the way cameras are set up to function. The very popular Unity game engine is especially bad for this (without someone who knows how and has time to do enough rewriting of camera functionality to fix the problem) so it comes up a lot especially in early indie games, Early Access games, or games which are buggy messes (and many increasingly are).

This is a review I watched yesterday for a game that has FOV problems--field of view. This means the camera is too narrow. If you look carefully you can see it pretty easily--the view you're getting is really focused. This gets disorienting, and makes the player feel sick. TotalBiscuit, the reviewer (one of the better ones), calls it out at several points fairly early on. I started feeling woozy 10 minutes into that video and had to lie down for 15 minutes after I finished it.

Or, for another example: I love Gone Home. It's a great game, neat little story, all kinds of cool twists going on in it. I also can't play it. It was made on Unity by three people who really know what they're doing but the art is a bit below AAA level (you can tell with some of the models) and the camera work is... interesting. If you look down, you don't see anything. This is because the camera is technically an object hovering in mid-air and they didn't bother making a player-character model for a first-person POV game, meaning you have no way to orient yourself. Unity's movement can also be a bit quick/jerky by default, the frame rate is a bit weird, and there are FOV issues in Gone Home, too. The cumulative effect is that just as the game gets interesting, I vomit. It doesn't happen to everyone, but if it happens to you it's nothing to be ashamed of. Great game, great indie team making it, these are known issues with it.

VR is a whole other beast. It's the same basic problem, but amplified several orders of magnitude by having no point of reference at all, because you're in an audio-visual headset (if you start feeling sick playing console games, take a break, make sure you broaden your view, look at some things not on the screen). It's another massive known issue, to the point that most VR devs warn test subjects who are new to it and keep a barf bucket handy. It's really, really hard to design for a fully virtual space because you have to put in a bunch of stuff to make up for the lack of reality, basically. Same thing happens on a screen, it's just less immediate and so less severe.

On the newer games, try opening the options menu. See if you can find a field-of-view option. If you're on PC you may have more luck, depending on your graphics card. It may be under a specific graphics option menu. Too many games don't put this in, though, and to hear a bit about that, click the review link about and let an angry British guy take it away.
 

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I'm the same way. First-person-shooter games make me really queasy.

I find I can usually play them for half-an-hour or so at a time, and I try to make sure I look away from the screen whenever I can. But it's not really the immersive experience I'd be hoping for!

I'd love to blame game developers, but I think I have to take at least a little of the responsibility myself, because some of the games that make me sick are really popular (Dragon Age, Mass Effect, etc.) so I assume most people are able to play them without the same issues I have.

Blech.
 
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kuwisdelu

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Oh yeah, narrow FOV makes me sick. It gets worse in cramped game spaces.

It tends to get better after a few shots of whiskey.

I always have to play third person POV if it's an option.
 

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I generally dislike games that force you to be in that pov where you can't see your character's avatar. They tend to make me a bit woozy sometimes (when that happens, I stop before it can get worse), but I also find it easier to orient my character, attack targets, and see incoming attacks if I'm a bit behind and above the character. And yes, this means you don't have to swoop the screen back and forth and up and down as much, which is probably easier on the inner ear.

I'm surprised it hasn't occurred to the developers that they're losing players because of this issue. Or maybe it's part of that "elite" gaming culture--real gamers don't have an area postrema in their brainstem, darn it.

Does taking Dramamine or some other anti-motion sickness drug before playing help at all? There are stronger, prescription drugs too (those patches that go behind the ear), but a down side is that they can have odd side effects of their own (one I got before I went on a vacation that involved a ferry crossing had "nausea and vomiting" listed as possibilities, which was kind of funny, though it didn't do that to me, and the ferry crossing turned out to be so mild that I probably didn't need it).
 
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I go straight to sleep if I take Dramamine... but maybe the excitement of playing a game would help keep me awake!

I should try it, probably. (I always forget about the possibility of taking medication! Hmmmm...)
 

kuwisdelu

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I generally dislike games that force you to be in that pov where you can't see your character's avatar. They tend to make me a bit woozy sometimes (when that happens, I stop before it can get worse), but I also find it easier to orient my character, attack targets, and see incoming attacks if I'm a bit behind and above the character. And yes, this means you don't have to swoop the screen back and forth and up and down as much, which is probably easier on the inner ear.

I'm surprised it hasn't occurred to the developers that they're losing players because of this issue. Or maybe it's part of that "elite" gaming culture--real gamers don't have an area postrema in their brainstem, darn it.

From lurking in various forums and the YouTube videos I've seen, I have kind of gotten the impression that "real gamers" play in 1st person POV and the 3rd person POV is for casuals like us...

I'll go into 1st person when aiming a bow or sniping, but I get sick using it for anything else...

I need to drink heavily when playing any exclusively 1st person POV titles to force that part of my brain to shut down...

Certainly explains why developers can get away with such lackluster player armor aesthetics...
 
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VeryBigBeard

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Some of it might be cultural. ETA: Games are developed to target certain primary player bases. So if I know I'm making a game for hard-core FPS wonks, I probably make it first-person. But then you get mass market games trying to please everyone. Can't really be done.

Also, fun fact: Halo began life as a top-down RTS.

My (albeit limited) experience is more that camera functionality is a pain in the ass the get right, requires incredible amounts of testing, and will never entirely please everyone (cultural, different sensitivities, etc.). So it tends to get cut or shortcut and then these things happen. That's also why it's worse in games which have a lot of other bugs.

Sometimes if there's no FOV option you can combat the effect by playing with the frame rate or control sensitivity. Gone Home can be improved by fiddling with the camera speed so that it's a bit slower.
 
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I'm confused by the idea that it's cultural. Are you suggesting that we get acclimated to camera movement and stop feeling sick? Or...?
 

mellymel

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Thanks for the responses. While it might be the creators of these games, the fact its, some people are affected and other are not, so there is something definitely going on with me when I play these games (BTW, I play mostly on Xbox360). I definitely think it's the 3rd PPOV that does me in. I can play Halo games, all the Lego games, had no problems with Max Payne, and the original TR games, but games like Alan Wake and the newer TR game completely screw me w/in 10-15 mins of playing. And as much as I love the concept/storyline of these games, I will not take meds/drugs to play a game. I'll just have to do a little more research on the games before I buy them and make sure I don't buy anymore games that I can't actually play. It's just a bummer.

And it's weird because I also get REALLY sick on any rides that just spin, and even if I spin around myself a couple of times, I instantly feel queasy, so perhaps there's a bigger issue with me?

ETA: I also got sick in the movie theater when I went to see Blair Witch Project and during the movie Paranormal Activity, I missed the last 20 mins of the movie because I ran to the bathroom and puked my brains out (sorry if TMI).

ETAA: Oh, and I found this post http://xbox.about.com/od/buyersguide/a/vgmosick.htm
 
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VeryBigBeard

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It's usually not as severe with third-person, but I could see it if the camera still has a narrow FOV. And often with third, you're up and behind so depending on how the camera is aligned, it still could be very hard to orient yourself. If I plop a camera in behind you, I then have to align it so that you get enough depth to see the level, enough height to see the character, enough width to what's going on around you, and then script it to follow specific movements in certain ways, all within whatever resolution your TV may (or may not) have. The only thing that doesn't make a huge difference is console.

The more I show, the more information is coming at you constantly, which can also be overwhelming. How much we see also has a huge effect on how the game "feels"--a lot of survivor games intentionally use very small FOVs to try and make you feel cramped, which can backfire. I tend to think it's not worth the risk.

So in a sense, it is you. But everyone has this--there are just different sensitivities, different triggers, and so on. Part of game design is figuring out how to make the player feel like the screen isn't there, but also doing so in such a way that she can still feel oriented in that space. We spend a fantastic amount of time adjusting the exact dimensions of levels and such to figure out what's on the screen. Sometimes not having the art at the right depth can create this effect. It's a byproduct of the uncanny valley..

It's definitely a bummer when it goes wrong, and it's one of the reasons I rarely buy a game now without checking reviews first. It's certainly not your fault, though.
 

Polenth

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I have SPD, so motion sickness is something I experience a lot of days (gaming or otherwise). I wouldn't manage VR and don't do 3D movies, but most things on a flat screen are doable with some care. I don't know if what I do will help anyone else, but it might...

I treat game motion sickness in the same way as travel sickness. So I eat sugar to reduce feelings of nausea. Ginger works for some people, but I don't get on with ginger on its own. Though travel sickness drugs would probably also work, that's a little extreme for regular gaming.

Game options can really help, as some games have options to remove head movement or to put crosshairs on the screen (for first person games). I make sure the room is well lit and I'm not too close to the screen, to reduce the illusion that I'm actually moving. Sometimes I stand up to play and move around a bit, rather than staying still all the time. Along with that, I keep play time down if it's that sort of game. Most 3D games, I keep the first session down to ten minutes or so, unless it's clear it's unlikely to cause motion sickness (slow paced, open environment so less camera spinning). Motion sickness does become less likely once I'm used to a game.

Having some non-3D games is also useful, to have something to switch between to take motion sickness breaks. Then it's less about having to stop gaming, and more switching to work on something else.
 

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ETA: I also got sick in the movie theater when I went to see Blair Witch Project and during the movie Paranormal Activity, I missed the last 20 mins of the movie because I ran to the bathroom and puked my brains out (sorry if TMI).

Shaky cam in movies makes me really sick if I go to the theater. Fortunately, I rarely go out to see movies anymore. And there's this helpful website... http://moviehurl.com/

For me, some fresh air usually helps me feel better quite quickly.
 

VeryBigBeard

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Yeah, not all 2D games are safe, either, though you won't have as many that cause problems.

One of my more recent projects was a gravity puzzle game, we usually pitched it as Portal meets Fez. In Fez, the level itself is almost 3D--it rotates as you move jump around a pillar. We rotate the whole level as you touch a surface. It tended to cause problems for about 1 in 20 testers--not enough for us to worry about it but enough we knew it wasn't for everyone.

We also found a lot of our problem was actually our tweening library (tweening is a way of automatically animating between poses/frames--basically creates motion). We didn't have an actual animator on the team, so we pulled a free tweening library from the web. You get what you pay for, but we were/are broke students, so yeah. You have to code the tweens into the game's animations, and we had too few in there because we were trying to keep the size of the game small. So you'd get a really jerky rotation, and you tended to land on the new surface and stick before/while the screen was rotating. The hard-core folks hated that the platforming was imprecise. ETA: It took us about 80 tests to figure this out. We got lucky, too, in that a couple animators at a game dev meetup took a look at it and were like, "Your tweening is garbage."

So we fixed some of that by rewriting half the tweening code. Some of it we can't fix without an animator or some money for a better package, and the project is pretty much trunked. The animations are probably Guess #2 or #3 for why publishers didn't go for it.

Anyone who wants to try the game, PM me. We're always open to feedback on it. Might take another run at publishing at some point if I ever get around to making some more levels.
 
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DancingMaenid

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First person games making me feel motion sick sometimes. I had that problem playing Bioshock Infinite. Luckily, I became acclimated to it after a bit, but at first it was pretty bad. Even watching a Let's Play of it would make me queasy (I'm a dork: when I'm playing a game, I like to watch my favorite LP recorders play them, too). Though, the first two Bioshock games don't affect me like that nearly as much.

Assassin's Creed: Revelations has these optional levels where you have to do first person platforming in this trippy, geometric computer world, and those were so bad. I'm normally a completionist with the AC games, but I decided it wasn't worth the literal headache.
 

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I remember hearing that others had that problem with Skyrim, since apparently the 'head' (the camera anyways) would bob a bit when walking. It made it a touch more realistic I guess, but it also caused motion sickness in some people. There was a mod to change that: http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/1450/?

No clue if people have modded other games to help with the motion sickness or not.
 

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This sounds very interesting to me. I do get motion sickness in DOOM, Wolfenstein and similar high speed crampy levels shooters such as Marathon. In modern games, rarely.

The FOV discussion is a huge one, I'm not sure I'd take a YouTube game reviewer's word for what really happens there. Cinema often uses a comparatively narrow FOV and lots of people still watch movies. I think the issue is more complex.


Huge angle FOV is also a hardcore gamer thing to do and can make the in game movement seem even faster.


My theories on game motion sickness have to do with jerky, unnatural camera movement, unrealistic movement speed and cramped levels, impression of things happening too fast, floor and ceiling not easily distinguishable, up and down getting confused, environments not containing clear orientation markers and eye catchers, perhaps certain color schemes and non functional lighting... A lot of stuff.

I have a hard time believing that a certain perspective is bad per se, first person for some, third person for others, millions of call of duty players would disagree.

I agree testing is the way to figure this out.

View bobbing is something I disable as well.

Up to a certain point, I believe that it is also a matter of getting used to these games and growing up with them.
 
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