So the truth is out: readers really don't like books about furriners from weird places

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Helix

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Sorry, I'm not being dismissive, but the fact is that one or two popular authors or titles do not make something "hot". Hot is when everyone is aware of it and wants it. IMHO, the real problem here isnt you, your work, or the fanbase, it's the publishers who wont look at something unless it's trending. Maybe you need to find an a new publisher for your Guyana based works.

BTW- I would love to read you book, but as I never partake of digital books I have no idea what format my laptop might use.

Not wishing to contain the geographically-awry derail*, novels set in Africa have been very popular for a long time -- from Conrad to Courtenay to Coetzee, from Paton to Lessing to Smith.

*but I'm going to
 

frimble3

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I suspect that might be part of the problem, not that readers won't read about furriners in weird places, but that when the 'weird place' is hard to identify, readers are unsure of what they're getting into. This isn't Fantasy, where people expect weird places and look forward to them. On the other hand, if you're the only person writing women's stories set in Guyana, you could have the niche to yourself. Give your publisher the India setting they want for one book, and every time you're interviewed, mention your Guyana books as well.
Then, when they do your second 'Winnie' story, people won't feel so unfamiliar with the setting.
 

Albedo

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Irrespective of nothing, and maybe Aruna is just too polite to mention it: Guyana is not in Africa. It is on the Atlantic hump of South America, next to Venezuela.

MM

You're right. As the one who made that mistake, I humbly apologize.

TBF, whilst Guyana, French Guiana and Suriname (formerly also Guiana) are in S America, Guinea, Guinea Bissau, Equatorial Guniea and Ghana are in Africa.
 

aruna

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You are not the first, and I'm sure will not be the last, to make the mistake. :D

MM
:) I'm so used to it, I don't even bother correcting people any more! Usually, it's Ghana they mix it up with. It's a bit of an anomaly. Geograohically in S. America but politically, economically, culturally, linguistically, it belongs to the Caribbean.

I suspect that might be part of the problem, not that readers won't read about furriners in weird places, but that when the 'weird place' is hard to identify, readers are unsure of what they're getting into.
That's it exactly. They don't even know where it is! I think that's why in the blurb, the publisher wrote South America and not Guyana. I found an old India story in my files that I had started and never finished. It's 60000 pages long! I'm going to see if I can save that.

Personally, I'd much rather read a book set in Guyana than a book set in India. For one thing, I've never read a book set in Guyana, so I'm instantly interested.

However. The cover of the two clasped hands would put me off - because it makes the book look like it's purely about the issue of a relationship being interracial. Like, it gives me the impression that the heart of the book isn't the setting, or the characters, or the relationship itself, but simply the fact that it's interracial.

.
I agree with you... and it is indeed about more than an interracial relationship.
 

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Not sure what to respond with here. I have heard for years, from editors, agents, and other writers, that the U.S. market is simply less interested in foreign settings compared to domestic settings. That's not likely to change. I don't know much about the U.K. market, but would suspect they would be more open to foreign settings. Yes, a few books in foreign settings sell well in the U.S., and it sounds like people in this thread are more open to foreign settings than the book-buying population at large.

So it's the age-old dilemma: write what you want, or write to the market—or to the market as perceived by editors and agents, who are your initial market in trade publishing. I considered that before writing my novel set in China, but went ahead with it any way. It will make me go slowly on writing a planned novel set in St. Lucia, home of my maternal ancestors.

Hoping it works out for you,
NDG
 

Victor Douglas

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What makes this even more humiliating is that I've actually been to Ghana! If anyone should know the difference...
 

aruna

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Update: now that I have proposed rewriting a previously published India novel of mine, they are now hinting that to get me "the sales I deserve" it would be nice if I could write that book first, or preferably two India books, and it's a pity I'm already 20000 words into my new Guyana novel.
I get them, I really do. They want to make a ton of money. And they think it's all Guyana's fault I'm not.
 

aruna

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Actually, my books do sell pretty well in Canada. It's the only country where I ever got into the Top 100 in Kindle. And there are many Guyanese there, many friends; I have so many invitations to visit! I can't believe I've never been. Also, I have a great review of the book from a Guyanese Literature professor at York University. He sent me it and said I could find a place for it. I have no idea who to offer it to. He's a well known reviewer. I will come to Canada one day. My son once told me that Vancouver would be a great place to live and I should retire there. The only thing I have against it is the cold! I need the tropics like I need air.

It's really hard for me to decide what to do now. I'm actually almost 30000 words in. Abandon it, and go for the more commercial one? Or to stick to my guns and finish it?
 

KTC

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Actually, my books do sell pretty well in Canada. It's the only country where I ever got into the Top 100 in Kindle. And there are many Guyanese there, many friends; I have so many invitations to visit! I can't believe I've never been. Also, I have a great review of the book from a Guyanese Literature professor at York University. He sent me it and said I could find a place for it. I have no idea who to offer it to. He's a well known reviewer. I will come to Canada one day. My son once told me that Vancouver would be a great place to live and I should retire there. The only thing I have against it is the cold! I need the tropics like I need air.

It's really hard for me to decide what to do now. I'm actually almost 30000 words in. Abandon it, and go for the more commercial one? Or to stick to my guns and finish it?
My partner came to Canada from Guyana in 1975. He's Chinese descent but was third generation Guyanese on his mother's side.

I have always loved the diversity of Canadian fiction. There's room for every voice. The awards lists are frequently extremely diverse. I love reading foreign settings...it's why I live for travel...the books here represent the world.

I am stubborn and, at times, my own worst enemy. I would finish it. But I would finish it with a plan. Finish it and try to find a home for it elsewhere while writing the one they want.

And Vancouver is beautiful. You still have the cold, but it's not as bad as most of the country. I was last on the west coast in February of 14. There was NO snow...it was beautiful springtime in Victoria. But, yeah...I'd pick the tropics over anywhere else...I just got back from Cuba and I'm missing the warmth already. (-:
 

aruna

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...or self publish. I will probably leave it and do the India one. But with a plan. In fact a plan is brewing already...

Is Vancouver colder than Germany? It seems to me that no sooner summer arrives, than it's gone again.

I had no idea your partner was Guyanese. There are many Chinese who settled there in colonial days. And now the Chinese are coming to take over the country!
 

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...or self publish. I will probably leave it and do the India one. But with a plan. In fact a plan is brewing already...

Is Vancouver colder than Germany? It seems to me that no sooner summer arrives, than it's gone again.

I had no idea your partner was Guyanese. There are many Chinese who settled there in colonial days. And now the Chinese are coming to take over the country!

Both his parents are ethnically Chinese, but his mother was third gen Guyanese. His father moved from China, married his mother and they had 7 kids together (he's the youngest). Then they moved to Canada for better education opportunities for the kids once his siblings were close to university age.

That sounds like a good plan. When you're passionate about a story, it's better to stay with it...even if you have to put it on hold.
 

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I don't know if Vancouver is colder than Germany. My guess is NO. I think that Vancouver is milder.
 

aruna

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Speaking of -- an old, old friend from Guyana -- we were teens together -- just contacted me on Facebook. She lives in Canada. One more reason to visit! I also have another Guyanese friend who lives in Vancouver -- we were very close buddies back then, and now on FB we are buddies again.
 

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Is Vancouver colder than Germany? It seems to me that no sooner summer arrives, than it's gone again.
Does your part of Germany get snow? If so, then it's colder than Vancouver, which gets snow only about every second year, lasting only for a few days. Winter temperatures usually hover around the 10C mark.
 

aruna

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We used to get pretty heavy snow every winter. The last few winters have been mild, however. I've been dreading winter because I have a long commute by road to work, and I work all through winter, but the last two years I've been at his job there was only ONE day when snow was a problem. Even then I made it to work. I remember some really heavy winters in the past, shovelling pathways every day, having to keep the woodburning stove going, etc.
 

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A lot of people enjoy stories in an strange place, far more than those who shrink from such stories. Foreign means strange, mysterious, fascinating to them.

Most likely the problem is that a main character is black. Some people are unconscious racists, or racist in tiny ways, without being KKK-type obvious haters. These avoiders of stories with black people may even be vocally and (they think) sincerely anti-racist.
 

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A lot of people enjoy stories in an strange place, far more than those who shrink from such stories. Foreign means strange, mysterious, fascinating to them.

Is that really true?

Consider how many fantasy settings are inspired by the same familiar European medieval tropes.

Everything that's strange in popular fiction is extremely familiar.
 

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...many fantasy settings are inspired by the same familiar European medieval tropes.

Very true. But then those settings are not really strange, are they? They're simply comfortingly familiar.

I for one would love to read a story set in the settings the OP mentioned.
 

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The second book, The Small Fortune of Dorothea Q, has a black girl on the cover. The new book has a white girl holding a black man's hand. The cover with the white girl has more sales at this point ot time than the cover with the black-girl -- in spite of the fact that the black girl cover had a famous British author tweeting a recommendation, and a famous American author Facebooking a recommendation. The white-girl cover has had no such recommendations -- and yet is is selling better. So -- proof that black people on covers don't sell?

Life is full of contradictions. Dunno about the furrin' angle (thought this was a pet discussion for a bit there), because I find new places alla the McCall Smith No.1 Ladies Detective Agency to be good reads. Yet I do notice the lack of real black African women on the covers. I think maybe there were stylized images on one of the books, but I forget. Anyway, I've always been hesitant to pick up a book with a black person on the cover. Took me years to read Justice and Her Brothers for that reason, and those books were awesome. Now all of you foaming at the PC mouth over what a rassist thing to write, I'll say that growing up an oreo has had that effect on me. A Black American raised at a time when television was actually interesting, but mostly populated by successful white characters, will have the sub-conscious notion that white culture is "real" (substitute progressive, mainstream, the best, as you see fit). This idea is reinforced by the black characters of the time tending to be either criminals, flunkies, red-shirts, or out-numbered. Add a sprinkling of socio-economic cues and parental expectations, and you wind up judging a book by its cover and saving some excellent reads for last when you just can't find anything else on the library shelf. Not sayin' it's good, but it ain't evil, either. More knee-jerk, or something. Would that make me change the cover? It would depend on how badly I needed to make that car payment. Would I feel dishonest by not representing my black main character on the cover? Truly that depends on writer/novel. I'm kinda proud of my crunchy chocolaty shell and creamy lickable center, but that's not always what my writing's about.
 

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There's a really big literary fiction book coming out that is set partially in Guyana next year. I think it got a seven figure advance or something.

I'm chiming in late here. I think, as other have said, that there are probably several reasons for sales being different. Having said that, I do think that white people, generally speaking, have problems dealing with POC characters. I say that as a white person and a former literature professor, and a mother of white children who tries to teach her kids to understand what it might be like for other people to read books that have characters that, by in large, feature characters that are chiefly colored in one skin tone, and that skin tone is different from their own.

This came up because my son is reading Percy Jackson and evidently there is a character depicted as white in a book and in the movie adaptation he is black. I explained a few reasons why this might be to my son. You literally have to force people who are white to look at these things. It is not something they can see without help most of the time. I think many of them are uncomfortable with it, and this might keep them from buying a book. The open minded ones, of course, would be interested. But as we know, not everyone is open-minded. And that is not even taking into account the ones who are not only open-minded, but who are flat-out racist but don't admit it.

This is just my take on things. As far as why India might be more salable . . . that I don't know, unless there is a higher reading population among the East Indian American public? I would imagine white Americans are just as bad about East Indians as they are about African Americans.
 

aruna

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There's a really big literary fiction book coming out that is set partially in Guyana next year. I think it got a seven figure advance or something.

Interesting. I'd love to know more.

I'm chiming in late here. I think, as other have said, that there are probably several reasons for sales being different. Having said that, I do think that white people, generally speaking, have problems dealing with POC characters. I say that as a white person and a former literature professor, and a mother of white children who tries to teach her kids to understand what it might be like for other people to read books that have characters that, by in large, feature characters that are chiefly colored in one skin tone, and that skin tone is different from their own.

This came up because my son is reading Percy Jackson and evidently there is a character depicted as white in a book and in the movie adaptation he is black. I explained a few reasons why this might be to my son. You literally have to force people who are white to look at these things. It is not something they can see without help most of the time. I think many of them are uncomfortable with it, and this might keep them from buying a book. The open minded ones, of course, would be interested. But as we know, not everyone is open-minded. And that is not even taking into account the ones who are not only open-minded, but who are flat-out racist but don't admit it.

When white people don't get it and complain about black people whining, I sometimes ask them to imagine if all the books available, all the books they read while growing up, had exclusively black or brown characters, with the only white characters ever appearing in minor roles. Just imagine it, as a white person. Wouldn't it feel weird? Wouldn't you want, as a white person in a mostly white society, want a BIT of diversity? Would that be whining?

As far as why India might be more salable . . . that I don't know, unless there is a higher reading population among the East Indian American public? I would imagine white Americans are just as bad about East Indians as they are about African Americans.
We're talking more about UK readers here. The UK has a long and colourful history with India. India was "the jewel in the crown". The British have this romantic idea about India, opulence, maharajahs, princesses on elephants, and all that -- and OTOH, misery, oppression, women in purdah, arranged marriage etc -- it all sounds very exotic and apparently readers are drawn to the "exotic". Not to mention, in more reacent years, spirituality, yoga, etc. Just about every book I read recently set in India and written by non_Indians has some kind of "guru" in it. Usually a lot of imagined nonsense.
 

aruna

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@alphabetsoup: I googled the big literary novel thing and found this article. Could it be that you mistook Guyana for Ghana? Not to worry if so, as many people do.
Tara Singh Carlson, a senior editor at G.P. Putnam’s Sons, said it was “terrifying” when she placed her first-ever million-dollar bid for a book last spring. “It made me want to throw up,” Ms. Carlson said. The book was “Homegoing,” a debut novel by 26-year-old Yaa Gyasi, who was born in Ghana and raised in Alabama. It traces the descendants of two half-sisters born in 18th-century Ghana, covering seven generations and more than 250 years of history—including the Jim Crow era, the Great Migration and the Harlem Renaissance.

I only ask because I kind of feel I would have heard of it. News spreads incredibly fast on the Guyana Grapevine and this would be BIG news.
 
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That is sh!t to hear. Sorry. You'd think we've moved past this. I know there's a reputation and financial aspect to keep in mind, but I urge you to push your book. Just backing down because nobody wants to see black people books, changes nothing. I think it's a Japanese phrase, to say "to widen someone's arsehole" as in, opening up their tiny mind. Widen that hole. You have the book to do so. Make it a combatant in a revolution, not a victim of discrimination :Soapbox:
 

aruna

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I wrote them a very long letter and told them my story. Told them how it was exactly because HarperCollins didn't want to publish Guyana books that I left them and wandered in the desert of non-publication for ten years. Told them how I chose them over a digital offer from HarperCollins because I believed they WOULD publish my Guyana books. And told them I was sorry they were disappointed in the book's performance but I thought maybe they had missed a trick or two in marketing. For instance, October was Black History Month. The book was published on October 1st. Perfect! I'm sure many of the mainstream media would have been delighted to hear about a black historical novel just out in October. Why wasn't it pushed as a Black History Month novel? For instance.

I got a very nice reply in which they agreed to publish both books in the trilogy as well as one India book, and said they weren't at all disappointed and stood by me as a writer. So I stood my ground and move forward with confidence. All is not yet lost!
 
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