"ed" + "that" versus "ing" construction

I prefer neither since they are both sentence fragments without verbs and hold no context.

Otherwise, I'm unsure if there are any tips about replacing nominal clauses with participles. The second one reads more fluidly to me.

a common decision with me, too. "that flickered overhead" = one time action ... "lights flickering overhead" = continuous

i like the sound of the second one better, too, with the -ing ending

Prefer the second

On first read, I don't have a preference. The only thing that I'd be sure to do is if you find yourself using them often in close proximity for some reason, vary them. Using one structure too frequently, too closely together, does take me out of the story a bit.

tko said:

I fall into this decision a lot. Not sure what it's called, but it uses "that" to convert from "ing" verb to an "ed" one. Example.

A purse the same color as the lights that flickered overhead.

versus

A purse the same color as the lights flickering overhead.

I like the second construct, but most people seem to use the 1st. Not only is the 2nd shorter, but to me, it fits the continuous action (they are always flickering) better.

Which one do you prefer? And how does "that," which has always been a very mysterious word to me, work its magic here?

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For me, it would depend on what surrounds the phrase. For example "She was swinging a purse the same color as the lights that flickered overhead" as compared to "She swung a purse the same color as the lights flickering overhead" Not that "She was swinging a purse the same color as the lights flickering overhead" is wrong. I just don't like the way those two "ing" words sound one after the other, but that's a personal preference.

tko said:

A purse the same color as the lights that flickered overhead.

versus

A purse the same color as the lights flickering overhead.

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What's most important is to say what you mean. If you mean that the flickering was ongoing, then "flickering" might be the better choice. However, it should be understood that a continuous action can be described by a past tense verb ending in "ed." In other words, you don't always need an "ing" verb to describe a continuous action.*

For example: "Lightning bugs flashed all around me as I walked through the forest." No one would assume each bug flashed once and then stopped. So you wouldn't need to say, "Lightning bugs were flashing all around me as I walked through the forest."

So, in your example, if you have previously mentioned that the flickering was continuous, then "flickered" would work. If, on the other hand, this was the first you mentioned the flickering, the reader wouldn't know if it was continuous or a one-time flicker.

Another construct you might consider is changing "flickering" from a verb to an adjective.

A purse the same color as the flickering lights overhead.

or even

A purse the same color as the flickering overhead lights.

tko said:

I like the second construct, but most people seem to use the 1st. Not only is the 2nd shorter, but to me, it fits the continuous action (they are always flickering) better.

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If making the sentence short is important to you, you can omit "same." This would require changing "as" to "of."

A purse the color of the flickering lights overhead.

I know your sentence is just an example, but if it's actually a sentence in your story, then I feel I should point something out. You're describing the color of the purse by comparing it to the color of the lights, but you never mention any color. If you've previously described the lights' color, then you're cool. If not, the description is meaningless.

tko said:

Which one do you prefer? And how does "that," which has always been a very mysterious word to me, work its magic here?

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In your sentence, "that" is a pronoun that ties the phrase (flickering overhead) that follows to the noun (lights) that precedes it to modify the noun.

*Note that some past tense verbs don't need any modification (ed or ing) to denote an ongoing action. For example:

The world spun as it orbited the sun.

Forget "ongoing" and concentrate on the sentence construction and tense in the rest of the piece. Be consistent from the first sentence. Present tense and inconsistency sneakin quickly when you use "ongoing" as the sole criteria.

tko said:

I fall into this decision a lot. Not sure what it's called, but it uses "that" to convert from "ing" verb to an "ed" one. Example.

A purse the same color as the lights that flickered overhead.

versus

A purse the same color as the lights flickering overhead.

I like the second construct, but most people seem to use the 1st. Not only is the 2nd shorter, but to me, it fits the continuous action (they are always flickering) better.

Click to expand...

I think both are fine, especially if they're part of a full sentence. eg - 'she held a purse the same colour as the lights.........'

Which one do you prefer?

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It would depend on what came before. I'd probably go with the -ing construction although the -ed can be preferable in some situations.

And how does "that," which has always been a very mysterious word to me, work its magic here?

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I'd think of "that" in this instance as being like a relative pronoun introducing a relative clause which is adjectival. the relative clause is adjectival because it describes the noun "light". The word "that" here, serves to introduce the relative clause and join it to the main sentence.

I haven't studied English grammar, only Latin so there are, no doubt, other ways of describing the function here of the word "that".

The very basic rule of thumb for "that" and "which" is:
"That" = non-specific
"Which" = there is a choice

But as with all grammar, it is not fixed in stone. You could in some cases leave it out as well:
She wore the red dress that she bought at the sale.
She wore the red dress bought at the sale.

tko said:

I fall into this decision a lot. Not sure what it's called, but it uses "that" to convert from "ing" verb to an "ed" one. Example.

A purse the same color as the lights that flickered overhead.

versus

A purse the same color as the lights flickering overhead.

I like the second construct, but most people seem to use the 1st. Not only is the 2nd shorter, but to me, it fits the continuous action (they are always flickering) better.

Which one do you prefer? And how does "that," which has always been a very mysterious word to me, work its magic here?

Click to expand...

The second one falls more gracefully on the ear and eye.

As for "that," it has its uses.