As opposed to almost every other genre/category, where the vast majority of the protagonists are male?
(Seriously, somebody please school this guy.)
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In your opinion, what makes a YA fantasy novel boring?
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As opposed to almost every other genre/category, where the vast majority of the protagonists are male?
(Seriously, somebody please school this guy.)
Stories that fast forward through the plot with little description and detail. It doesn't give enough time to get to know the characters let alone get attached to any of them so that's an immediate turn off for me.
On the other side of the spectrum is too much description especially in the first few pages of a book. Going through pages and pages of dense detail with little to no dialogue or action is what i would see as boring as well.
On the other side of the spectrum is too much description especially in the first few pages of a book. Going through pages and pages of dense detail with little to no dialogue or action is what i would see as boring as well.
Except some people don't want to read X adult book with a male protagonist, they want to read a YA book with a male protagonist.
In contexts like this around writers, I suggest fixing the problem yourself. Write YA from a male perspective (I am). Write A from a female perspective. But there is a world outside of this forum where not everyone is a writer.
You completely missed my point. Besides, there is absolutely no shortage of YA books with male protagonists. I'd probably estimate that they make up at least 30% of the books you will find on any given shelf.
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Someone's pet peeve can be another's favorite thing. For example, a lot of readers can't stand romance in YA Fantasy, but I've had readers who say they like the romance in mine. Also, my story Jonah and the Raven Girl has dragons but they are insanely powerful.
Perfect protagonists! Seriously, when a character is simply a running list of 'positive traits' ... atheletic, pretty, kind, brave, motivated ... with no flaws, I tune out pretty quickly.
I also really hate contemporary novels where the plot is mostly centered around high school drama.
I also really hate contemporary novels where the plot is mostly centered around high school drama.
Male protagonists aren't that underrepresented in YA. There's more parity than in other categories, and it leads to that effect where people think a room that's 50% women is majority women.
I think that the problem with fantasy sometimes is that even though fantasy can have a wide range of topics, many fantasy novels (unless they're urban fantasy or have ties to our world or something) sort of have the same flavor. Usually royalty/nobility. A main character, usually a girl, who gets caught up with a prince and then some other guy, and then there's magic or fighting. I would like to see something more inventive, not just the same story with different names/faces.
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Yeah, I think it's a shock of not being used to many female protagonists in a category. (It's like that weird social/psychological phenomenon where people, usually men, would think there are too many women in a room/conversation, because they are not used to having more than one woman participating or dominating in a room/conversation--even if it's not that many women, lol.)
Well, many teens do spend a lot of time in school, heh.
Where else would they get the drama? I would kind of expect either school (and/or home) drama to some extent, since that is where many teens spend a majority of their day in... It's either that, or they're participating in some kind of hobby or extracurricular/recreational activity, like sports, dancing or whatever classes, etc.
Or volunteering. Or working part time jobs.
Or, maybe they're on the streets (whether they're homeless, joining gangs, doing drugs, prostituting, etc).
Maybe there could be drama in their part-time jobs/volunteering places/home life/recreational activities, etc?
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I feel like just listing pet peeves doesn't work at all--for example, I *as a rule* dislike love triangles but depending on the execution I can enjoy them. I have a hard time with stories set in "exotic" locales that aren't properly researched but if there's enough fun and action involved I'm in. It really does depend on the writer and the reader--the only story I've ever found truly boring was Aimee Agresti's "Illuminate" and it was just because it was long and read very flatly.
LOVE TRIANGLES.
For me- it's fine when a character has mixed feelings for another character. It might even be fine if she has mixed feelings for two characters. But YA authors have come to rely on that for the sole purpose of their books. Instead of developing the characters more deeply, they just use one conflicted girl to be interested in two barely described boys, and that's their story. Give the girl a life. make her more interesting. Make that romantic sub-plot a SUB-PLOT. And give something to the guys to let them stand on their own two feet. And that's if you MUST do a love triangle. Give me a girl that has to overcome something big before she can even think of falling in love over a girl that only focuses on love any day of the week!
For me- it's fine when a character has mixed feelings for another character. It might even be fine if she has mixed feelings for two characters. But YA authors have come to rely on that for the sole purpose of their books. Instead of developing the characters more deeply, they just use one conflicted girl to be interested in two barely described boys, and that's their story. Give the girl a life. make her more interesting. Make that romantic sub-plot a SUB-PLOT. And give something to the guys to let them stand on their own two feet. And that's if you MUST do a love triangle. Give me a girl that has to overcome something big before she can even think of falling in love over a girl that only focuses on love any day of the week!
Liosse de Velishaf
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This, generally speaking, is the worst. Ugh. Or when someone uses the trappings of another genre or culture or whatever to spice up what's essentially a generic romance. Yick.
Yup. You can do love triangles or mixed feelings right. Most folks don't.
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Bad writing.
There's no such thing as a boring story – only boring writers.
It's true that much of YA fantasy rehashes the same old tropes over and over. But that's more on the publishers then the writers. Publishers are looking for same elements of story that have proved to sell in the past. If you hit all the proper bases and your writing is competent you have a better chance of selling your book than if it's something out of the ordinary, unfortunately. At least, until the trope is worn out. (No more vampires, please!)
But a good writer can make the most shopworn ideas seem fresh and interesting. A bad (or boring) writer can take a great, fresh premise and make it seem stupid and uninteresting.
There's no such thing as a boring story – only boring writers.
It's true that much of YA fantasy rehashes the same old tropes over and over. But that's more on the publishers then the writers. Publishers are looking for same elements of story that have proved to sell in the past. If you hit all the proper bases and your writing is competent you have a better chance of selling your book than if it's something out of the ordinary, unfortunately. At least, until the trope is worn out. (No more vampires, please!)
But a good writer can make the most shopworn ideas seem fresh and interesting. A bad (or boring) writer can take a great, fresh premise and make it seem stupid and uninteresting.
A predictable plot with no tension or stakes whatsoever. Which is pretty unlikely in a story (but it's rare I find any novel downright boring, even if I don't like them much).
I guess also the feeling that there isn't much tension, even when there should be. So if the protagonist isn't having a reaction that makes the reader feel the tension.
I guess also the feeling that there isn't much tension, even when there should be. So if the protagonist isn't having a reaction that makes the reader feel the tension.
Mary Sues and Mary Stus. The main reason I hate Twilight is that Bella is just a bland Mary Sue. Even before Edward even enters the stage, there are at least two "mortal vanilla" guys totally obsessed with her in the first few chapters. Her weakness, clumsiness, seems ridiculous and tacked on at the same time. She seems to have only one flaw and has no realistic or relatable emotional struggles.
Romance with a very weak reason. In Twilight, Edward's two favorite things about Bella are they way her blood smells and the fact that she can't read her thoughts for some reason. My guess is that she doesn't have much going on in the brain. If you're immortal, that's going to get old really fast and eternity is a LONG time. I read a book called Gem X where this guy falls in love with a girl because her face isn't perfectly symmetrical, like his is due to genetic engineering. I could see that being a novelty, but falling in love? No.
Then there are the standard fantasy cliches. I hate prophesies, destinies and chosen ones. Puke. There are more, but that's all I've got for now.
Romance with a very weak reason. In Twilight, Edward's two favorite things about Bella are they way her blood smells and the fact that she can't read her thoughts for some reason. My guess is that she doesn't have much going on in the brain. If you're immortal, that's going to get old really fast and eternity is a LONG time. I read a book called Gem X where this guy falls in love with a girl because her face isn't perfectly symmetrical, like his is due to genetic engineering. I could see that being a novelty, but falling in love? No.
Then there are the standard fantasy cliches. I hate prophesies, destinies and chosen ones. Puke. There are more, but that's all I've got for now.
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- Insta-love
- Slow pace (sometimes it's executed well enough to hold my interest, but typically not)
- Romantic drama
- INSTA-LOVE
- The Queen Bee Bitch character (seriously, y u so one dimensional?)
- When authors try to find creative ways around swearing in their fiction; it's obvious, and it's painful to read. Please, stop.
- The Mysterious Bad Boy character
- Slow pace (sometimes it's executed well enough to hold my interest, but typically not)
- Romantic drama
- INSTA-LOVE
- The Queen Bee Bitch character (seriously, y u so one dimensional?)
- When authors try to find creative ways around swearing in their fiction; it's obvious, and it's painful to read. Please, stop.
- The Mysterious Bad Boy character
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Hot lovable chick with tragic past wins everybody's hearts and saves a world that wasn't even hers but she totally rocks that world while she'd probably break down crying after 10 minutes alone on vacation abroad. She also quickly learns combat/magic/whatever skills while she can't cook for shit.
They're way too tame for me. I think they're great for people of the age group, but I can never relate to the characters. I always feel like the plot has them doing something way over their heads or some mundane issue that I don't care about.
Ravioli reminded me of one. I hate when total outsiders to a culture manage to rapidly learn some form of magic or skill that the natives spend their entire lives since early childhood devoted to studying it. What's even worse, is that they end up mastering it on a level far beyond what the natives could imagine ever possible. Worst of all, the MC who becomes this amazing legend nearly always seems to have a very traditional European style cultural background and the natives are this exotic mystical tribal folk who are frequently being persecuted by the very people who come from the same place the main character was born.
Avatar is the most well known example I can think of. How does this human, who has only had control of his alien body for a few weeks or a month or two, quickly learn and fully understand how to work a "magic" that the natives literally start working at birth, due to their basic biology they earn simply by being born? They've spent an entire lifetime experimenting and playing with their magic. They likely have learned at a very young age things that an outsider might never encounter at all.
Also, not only are they saturated in the magic due to their biology, their culture is in some way entirely centered on this magic because of their biology. This means that on one level, even when they are not actively using their magic, they are constantly studying it every waking hour of their entire lives. They are not only born with the magic, they are raised by people born that way. Everyone they live with is born into that culture and have been for several generations. Even when they are thinking about something that has nothing to do with the magic, they are going think about it using a perspective that comes from someone who was raised in the native environment. Their very way of thinking is sort of a study in the magic on some level.
In Avatar, not only does this outsider master the magic, but he also thinks about it better than the natives. I'd forgive it somewhat if the writers made a point to show that he was clumsy and awkward with the magic and never really got the hang of it, but he saved the day by coming up with solutions that were out of the box because of his own cultural upbringing and "magical" talents. But no, for the most part, he just has more bravery and skill than the natives have at their own magic.
I could go on about this all day, but this post is already far too long as it is. But I need to say that this cliche in fantasy is not only unrealistic, but it's an extremely offensive perspective on minority cultures. Cultural appropriation is not only a good thing, it's a vital tool used to protect minorities from being destroyed by the majority culture, which is traditionally a Western style culture with European roots. The minority culture is exotic and attractive, but it's not nearly powerful enough to protect itself. "White" people need to step in and save it from destruction.
Anyway, I apologize for this turning into a political and social rant. But I beg every writer to think very carefully before they write about an outsider stepping into a culture and becoming the hero. You may have the best of intentions, but you are helping to perpetuate a very poisonous yet subtle form of bigotry or racism.
Avatar is the most well known example I can think of. How does this human, who has only had control of his alien body for a few weeks or a month or two, quickly learn and fully understand how to work a "magic" that the natives literally start working at birth, due to their basic biology they earn simply by being born? They've spent an entire lifetime experimenting and playing with their magic. They likely have learned at a very young age things that an outsider might never encounter at all.
Also, not only are they saturated in the magic due to their biology, their culture is in some way entirely centered on this magic because of their biology. This means that on one level, even when they are not actively using their magic, they are constantly studying it every waking hour of their entire lives. They are not only born with the magic, they are raised by people born that way. Everyone they live with is born into that culture and have been for several generations. Even when they are thinking about something that has nothing to do with the magic, they are going think about it using a perspective that comes from someone who was raised in the native environment. Their very way of thinking is sort of a study in the magic on some level.
In Avatar, not only does this outsider master the magic, but he also thinks about it better than the natives. I'd forgive it somewhat if the writers made a point to show that he was clumsy and awkward with the magic and never really got the hang of it, but he saved the day by coming up with solutions that were out of the box because of his own cultural upbringing and "magical" talents. But no, for the most part, he just has more bravery and skill than the natives have at their own magic.
I could go on about this all day, but this post is already far too long as it is. But I need to say that this cliche in fantasy is not only unrealistic, but it's an extremely offensive perspective on minority cultures. Cultural appropriation is not only a good thing, it's a vital tool used to protect minorities from being destroyed by the majority culture, which is traditionally a Western style culture with European roots. The minority culture is exotic and attractive, but it's not nearly powerful enough to protect itself. "White" people need to step in and save it from destruction.
Anyway, I apologize for this turning into a political and social rant. But I beg every writer to think very carefully before they write about an outsider stepping into a culture and becoming the hero. You may have the best of intentions, but you are helping to perpetuate a very poisonous yet subtle form of bigotry or racism.
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This is pretty much the Mighty Whitey thing. White man saves halfwitted (as displayed) South american tribe (Road to El Dorado), white man saves Native americans (Pocahontas), white man saves blue aliens (Pocahontas in Space), white man brings civilisation to Africa (what have you), and white girl brings peace and salvation to fantasy world. OH! And white man teaches animals literacy in Africa (Jungle Emperor Leo/Kimba the white Lion). They couldn't find a black African guy in Africa to do that, at least? He had to be f*cking white?
One of the most insulting examples to me was The last Samurai. SERIOUSLY!?!? White guy hasn't spent much time in Japan and takes over Japan's most loyal, patriotic warriors and leads them to victory? WTF!? That was when I was done with Tom Cruise.
Whitey always saves a primitive, doomed non-white, animal, or alien culture from itself and its doomings. And I hate to add Doctor Who to the list, but come on, all he ever does is talk or reverse some polarity, and the resident aliens couldn't think of that?
One of the most insulting examples to me was The last Samurai. SERIOUSLY!?!? White guy hasn't spent much time in Japan and takes over Japan's most loyal, patriotic warriors and leads them to victory? WTF!? That was when I was done with Tom Cruise.
Whitey always saves a primitive, doomed non-white, animal, or alien culture from itself and its doomings. And I hate to add Doctor Who to the list, but come on, all he ever does is talk or reverse some polarity, and the resident aliens couldn't think of that?
I HAAAAAATE THIS TROOOOOOPE. Feels like it's played dead straight more often than it's averted or subverted. The contortions film and TV writers must go through to put a white face front and center on the poster full of brown people are absurd. Yet they keep happening. In twenty-freaking-sixteen.
No kidding. They wasted Ken Watanabe and all that absolutely drop-dead gorgeous cinematography!
I'll watch just about anything if the shots are pretty. The remake of the karate kid is stunning to look at when they go into the mountains, but dude the actual movie parts...