US Soldiers told to ignore child sexual abuse in Afghanistan

Amadan

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I mean, you put the guy in power, gave him military support, and had him living on your military base while he raped this kid, again, on your base. But I'm sure your ethical hair-splitting makes the kid feel a lot better about what was happening to him.


These attempts at emotional guilt-tripping do not improve your argument. Nobody is happy about what happens to these kids, nor does anyone think that whatever reasons we might have, however valid, or not, they may be, will make them feel better.

Your reasoning, though, would make it fair game for him to declare open season on all Americans. Your tax dollars at work, you know, and your elected representatives. And if you believe that, well, I guess we deserved 9/11 after all, because someone who eschews "ethical hair-splitting" can make decent arguments for the people behind nearly any terrorist attack having legitimate grievances.
 
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There's exactly zero objective reason why America's response to 9/11 is any different than this kid's response to what happened to him. The Taliban did not crash planes into the world trade center. Al Qaeda did. The Taliban merely harbored the terrorists for their own purposes. Just like the United States harbored this asshole and his cronies for their own purposes. My point is not to guilt trip you personally. My point is to highlight the parallels in these situations.

Whether you think one or the other was a slightly lighter shade of grey is up to you.
 
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Amadan

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And bachi bazi is not a cultural issue. They have laws against it.

Hmm. I'll remember that the next time you use the words "rape culture."


There's exactly zero objective reason why America's response to 9/11 is any different than this kid's response to what happened to him. The Taliban did not crash planes into the world trade center. Al Qaeda did. The Taliban merely harbored the terrorists for their own purposes. Just like the United States harbored this asshole and his cronies for their own purposes.

Well, if you believe the American invasion of Afghanistan was an emotional lashing out and not an attempt to prevent future terrorist attacks (which I realize many people do), then yes, that's a reasonable parallel.

I personally believe removing the Taliban's power base was a logical and defensible thing for us to do, the clusterfuck we made of the Middle East in the decade that followed notwithstanding.
 

Amadan

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Your analogy is flawed. Nice try, though, I guess. Target women because you can't get a good shot off at me. Classy.

That's not an "analogy." You claimed something is not a cultural issue because the thing is illegal in that culture. I am highlighting the flaw in your reasoning, not "targeting women."

The only thing worse than being a total scumbag is having the gall to play it off as being a gentleman after the fact.

And that... was more than a "blunder."
 

quicklime

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I had heard a similar story from a hunting buddy who had served, that they were ordered to stand down and lay low when they could see a boy being raped....

sad, but again, I heard that story like 6 years ago.
 

rwm4768

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"Cultural differences?" That's a bunch of crap. Sorry, but rape is not a cultural difference. It's a crime. I don't care what is tradition or even what the laws of a certain country say. Rape is a crime against basic human rights.

It's probably not the popular thing to say, but this is what happens when you fight a half-assed war. If you're going to instill regime change in a country, you should actually do it. But what should we expect? I'm pretty sure the last war we bothered to fight to its conclusion was World War II.

Note: I don't like war in general. But if you're going to go in and create upheaval in a country, you have to clean up the mess you've created. What's the point of our efforts if the people we're leaving in power are no better than those we got rid of?
 

Amadan

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"Cultural differences?" That's a bunch of crap. Sorry, but rape is not a cultural difference. It's a crime. I don't care what is tradition or even what the laws of a certain country say. Rape is a crime against basic human rights.

I agree, but my point was not that it's okay and should be tolerated because it's a cultural practice there. I am not a cultural relativist.
 

kuwisdelu

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Why can't it be a cultural difference and also wrong?

I am a cultural relativist, but I also believe that culture should be consensual.
 

nighttimer

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Terrorism is pretty culturally entrenched there, as well. Didn't stop the US from deciding they had the moral authority to invade a country and depose a regime there. Of course, the US is also more than happy to use its own forms of violence to get what it wants from the world, and it's really no different from terrorism when you boil it down.

Your argument sounds about exactly like the arguments made against legalizing gay marriage in the US, and the arguments for a Christian nation here. And while we're at it, the arguments made against abolitionism and women's suffrage and strengthening rape laws and protections for women. Glad it helps you sleep better at night.

I'm sure it helps the boys sleep better at night, as well. Or perhaps the fact that they're the only ones in this whole clusterfuck who aren't arrogant self-serving hypocrites helps them sleep better at night. I sure hope so. They haven't got much else. Unlike the warlords committing these crimes and the foreigners condoning them for their own selfish purposes.

I don't know if this diatribe is directed at me or Amadan, but since it came immediately after my post, I'll continue on the presumption it is meant for me.

My argument has nothing to do with arguments with legalizing gay marriage, arguments for establishing a Christian nation, arguments against abolitionism, women's suffrage, strenghening rape laws, or whether or not Fear the Walking Dead is a total waste of time. Your shrill argument has nothing to do with anything I wrote in my post.

Once again, if your post was directed at Amadan, he's more than capable of defending his own post.

;9569445 said:
Well, my original point was that calling it a cultural difference was just a euphemism for "it's so much more convenient if we just ignore this", and that I thought we as a country should either do better than that or at least own up to the fact that that's how low our standards for policy are instead of trying to pretend we had any moral high ground.

My second point was, if we don't care about the kid who shot those Marines, I don't think we have a right to criticize him for not caring about us. He got raped because we didn't care enough, some Marines got shot because he didn't care enough. No amount of handwringing makes the US the innocent victim here.

But y'all didn't like those points, so I watered it down for you into just saying (albeit with some strong language) that I do not like the situation, since apparently any other opinion is unsupportable. As y'all said, you can't always get everything you want out of a situation.

My point was never the U.S. is in any way "innocent." You seem to be unable to come up with any real suggestion of what the U.S. can DO to stop bacha bazi in Afghanistan. We've been there over a damned decade and haven't stopped it when the American military was engaged in combat. What exactly do you think the U.S. can do with one foot out the door?

Eventually, if you keep clarifying and expanding on your original over-the-top post, you may even get around to declaring the pricks the kid should have blown away were the assholes who were raping his.
 

kuwisdelu

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I also think there is an important difference between justifying the child's actions and empathizing with them.

There are many things that I empathize with that I can't justify.

There are also many acts for which I wouldn't criticize or condemn someone even if I don't think they should be legal.

Because I have different standards for a justice system than I do for individuals.
 
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I have deleted several posts and moderately edited a few others. Not because I think every single one of them is wrong, but because the thread will probably run much smoother without them. I stand by the words that remain. I'm not going to comment further in this thread, but don't let that stop you from critiquing the arguments I made as you see fit. I do apologize for those of my remarks which unfairly targeted specific commentors for their stances in the discussion, particularly Amadan. Those were out of line, and I will try to avoid similar bad behavior in the future.
 
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