The Dastardly Dungeon of Deliciously Devious Drinks

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_Sian_

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That's why I only really do Dragoncon - it's a huge con, about 80,000 attendees each year, over the course of 5 days. That means LOTS of traffic. And Atlanta is a huge metro area. They're even televising the parade through downtown this year. My sales at the art show are great, steady, and I have a great deal of fun. It's also 24/7 fun, as the hotels don't shut down at 6pm like convention-center cons (SDCC). So, once the art show is closed, I go gaming, partying, socializing, etc. All night screening of Monty Python? Check. Celtic punk rave? Check. Yes, I'm 47 and go to Celtic punk raves :p All night Settlers of Catan? Check.

The vendor room would probably be even more lucrative for my art, but the art show booth costs me $250, while the vendor room booth would be $1250, and I can't seem to get my foot in the door there (difficult to get in!). The art show is hard, but I've been there in one capacity or another since 2004, so it's my peeps.

80,000 :O

I think I'd die. My gosh. How do you even decide what you want to do at something that big?

True.



The US is deceptively huge*. I never appreciated it until I started ferrying aircraft from one coast to the next. Watching the vistas change from rolling mountains to flat plains to enormous mountains to scorching deserts to picturesque beachfront, and all of it under one flag to boot, is truly jaw-dropping.

Sadly, the rail system woefully pitiful these days. CmF and I took the train from Union Station to Penn Station on our honeymoon, but could have flown there at a fraction of the cost and time. Which is too bad after we traveled by train in Europe. The ride from King's Cross to Edinburgh was so picturesque, it made me wish the US still relied on the rails.

And Alaska is down-right gargantuan. One state the size of the entire middle of the county.



Working out is the best anti-blah medication I've ever found.




Morning, gang.

Whut up?

I'm used to big - Aus is big, there's just a lot of nothing going on between the state capitals. In europe - I think the rail is good because some people like the novelty of a train journey? Also, the whole stop and start thing between countries.

Generally the plane is cheeper.
 

lilyWhite

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I've never been to a con, and haven't really gone to any big events in general. I've just never been interested in the thought of that sort of thing, and even if it sounds like something I'd be into, I don't think all of the travel necessary, the cost, and the hassle would be worth it just in case I end up not enjoying it.

And, as usual, I'm smashing my head against the seemingly-insurmountable block. A few ideas that both seem intriguing and that I've put a lot of thought into, but also feel dumb, cheesy, and uninspired. It's like when you can't decide whether you want cheesies, Doritos, or poutine chips, so you just sit around and munch on nothing and be thoroughly unsatisfied.

Ugh.

Generally the plane is cheeper.

This train looks pretty cheep. :greenie
 

JJ Litke

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I just saw a video about why trains suck in the US: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbEfzuCLoAQ

Summary: Amtrak has only been around since the 70s, owns very little existing tracks (and freight trains get priority on the tracks they own, often forcing passenger trains to run late). There's a vicious circle of not enough funding to build needed infrastructure and people not using trains (to provide said funding).
 

greendragon

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You just do what you can, and save the rest for next year. That's why I've been going since 2003 - more to see each year. Mostly I go for the people and the costume watching. It's fantastic to people-watch there. And I love the all night gaming, parties, etc. I usually skip the parade, I don't go to as many panels as I used to. I give two panels most years - taxes for artists and a basic beading workshop. I have about 20 friends that go every year and we hang out together and costume as a group - usually Monty Python Holy Grail. It's a hit. And we stay at the host hotels so no designated driver needed - which is great, as I'm usually the DD, since my husband needs alcohol to be around crowds. He just skips DC now, so it's my vacation from him :D And there's always a party, screening, concert, or random Werewolf game to join at any given time. There are 5,000 hours of panels, workshops, games, etc. No one can ever do it all :p

Some videos of Dragoncon

Costumes
Parade
Gaming
Firefly Panel
Vendor rooms
Comic & Pop Art Alley
A mix (there's a dragon in this one) - there is a brief flash at 1:48 of a bagpiper - that's author Janny Wurtz, who leads the parade each year as bagpiper.
 

Friendly Frog

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Yep, as expected, I am horribly sore but I regret nothing! Nothing! :box::e2thud:

I have been to one local con but ended up not really liking it enough to return. There's a fantasy/ren fair of some size (16 000 people aday) just across the Dutch border that inspires and attracts me more. I still get ads for the con and they manage to make it sound so good that each time I wonder whether maybe I did something wrong the first time to fully enjoy it. The trouble is it is now always the very same weekend as my favourite fantasy/ren fair so even trying to see if there is something at the con I might enjoy, will always be at the cost of my favourite fair. There's no winning that, really.

I do wonder at the hoarding tendencies of your ancestors and why they didn't get rid of some of this stuff *hands FriendlyFrog a glass of gingerbeer*
Well, life has a habit of getting in the way, I suppose. They always meant to, but important things took precedence and there never was time. Several of my dad's family members died a lot earlier then they expected. (Don't we all?) and the remaining family didn't always deal well with inherited stuff. And to top it of, there are some post-world-war-scarcity habits involved. My great-grandmother who raised my dad from an early age has instilled him with the custom of never throwing anything away that might even be in part useful in the future because you never know when you might come across another, which right after the war was a real issue. She hoarded canned food like a pro, we still follow her custom of having several long-lasting food stuff in storage in the basement so that you could make at least three meals for a household without having to shop.

And when my parents moved in my great-grandparents' home lots of stuff was boxed up rather than gotten rid of. And, as I'm often told, my very birth interrupted the only big de-cluttering operation they ever attempted.

Thanks for the gingerbeer! :e2drunk:
 

Damoclian

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42 pages edited today! That's a great number. Only 54 left. Can I get them done on Friday? That's a big chunk. Almost 1/3 of the book. We shall see. Anyone want to make wagers?

I wager YOU can DO all the THINGS!!!! :D
 

Kitkitdizzi

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Hi all. Back again after surviving another week of work. And this time I do mean surviving. Our invasive plant treatment crew was down a few people so I went with them to spray Himalayan blackberry around a reservoir. I swear, it was the week from hell. The first day was all climbing up this steep hillside with a 3-gallon backpack sprayer through blackberry canes as high as my chest, poison oak, and tons of trees and shrubbery. Then I get to the top and realize I lost my GPS unit and had to climb back down. Fortunately, I found right where I thought I lost it, where I had to do a barrel-roll to get over this tangle of bay laurel trees. Unfortunately, that was near the bottom of the hill.

Day two wasn't so bad, just climbing over rock ledges below the dam. Less poison oak, but day three SUCKED. We had to climb down to this valley on a trail that didn't believe in switchbacks and then traverse up a canyon which involved loads of river fording and down-climbing cliffs. With the backpack sprayer still on (and my own backpack strapped to the back of that). At one point trying to get down a ravine a rock slipped from under my foot and I only kept from falling by hugging this oak tree (and the poison oak surrounding it). It took us thirteen hours to finish. At the last river fording I was basically "screw it" and crossed without bothering to take off my clothes or shoes. I'm covered in bruises and scratches and I don't remember the last time I cursed so much. The only saving grace is that I love the people I work with, our bunkhouse had a hot tub and we brought loads of booze with us to assuage our pain. Oh, and I freaking found a drone in the middle of nowhere. I'll see if I can find the owner (they're illegal in the park, so I don't know if they'll claim it) but if not I'm going to try to get it to fly again. It's in good shape, but needs a new battery.

Thanks for letting me rant :):)

I have been to one local con but ended up not really liking it enough to return. There's a fantasy/ren fair of some size (16 000 people aday) just across the Dutch border that inspires and attracts me more. I still get ads for the con and they manage to make it sound so good that each time I wonder whether maybe I did something wrong the first time to fully enjoy it. The trouble is it is now always the very same weekend as my favourite fantasy/ren fair so even trying to see if there is something at the con I might enjoy, will always be at the cost of my favourite fair. There's no winning that, really.


Well, life has a habit of getting in the way, I suppose. They always meant to, but important things took precedence and there never was time. Several of my dad's family members died a lot earlier then they expected. (Don't we all?) and the remaining family didn't always deal well with inherited stuff. And to top it of, there are some post-world-war-scarcity habits involved. My great-grandmother who raised my dad from an early age has instilled him with the custom of never throwing anything away that might even be in part useful in the future because you never know when you might come across another, which right after the war was a real issue. She hoarded canned food like a pro, we still follow her custom of having several long-lasting food stuff in storage in the basement so that you could make at least three meals for a household without having to shop.

I have a ton of long-lasting food too. Although mine is more to be ready for the zombie apocalypse...

My only con events were FaerieCon and FaerieWorlds in Oregon, which were really fun. I really hope to go to DragonCon one day. Next year I'm going to try to hit the San Diego Comic Con.
 

Little Anonymous Me

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And, as usual, I'm smashing my head against the seemingly-insurmountable block. A few ideas that both seem intriguing and that I've put a lot of thought into, but also feel dumb, cheesy, and uninspired. It's like when you can't decide whether you want cheesies, Doritos, or poutine chips, so you just sit around and munch on nothing and be thoroughly unsatisfied.

Ugh.

:Hug2:That feeling is despicable. My vote is to take these so-called cheesy, uninspired ideas and run with them for a few thousand words. Betcha 1.) they don't suck nearly as much as you think and 2.) they'll change as you write (always happens to me) and it won't be what you thought you were starting with anyway.

42 pages edited today! That's a great number. Only 54 left. Can I get them done on Friday? That's a big chunk. Almost 1/3 of the book. We shall see. Anyone want to make wagers?

:hooray::hooray::hooray::hooray: I wager you can do it and spend a chunk of Friday feeling relaxed and satisfied. :e2bear:


ETA: does anyone have an ideas as to how you'd describe a building where the second floor looks down on the first like the entire thing is a balcony? As in, the second floor only really goes around the edges of the first floor? There's a building in Fallout like this....
 
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Aggy B.

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ETA: does anyone have an ideas as to how you'd describe a building where the second floor looks down on the first like the entire thing is a balcony? As in, the second floor only really goes around the edges of the first floor? There's a building in Fallout like this....

"Once through the door, the building was surprisingly airy - the ceiling a good two and a half stories above - and light falling from windows above the balcony which wound around the second floor." Or something. Or did you mean is there like an architectural term for it? (I'm sure there is, but I don't know what.)
 

Little Anonymous Me

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I was really just trying to get the gist of it across. :) And I described it pretty much the way you did, so I think I'm on the right track. Huzzah!


ION: Being stood up sucks, but I'm being productive with my newly freed evening, so I'm not feeling as sorry for myself as I thought I would. :e2BIC:


IOON: Why do I have so many tense shifts? This is the third edit. How have they escaped me?? :flamethrower
 
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JJ Litke

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My Arduino stuff came in! Actually not a full-fledged Arduino, just a LilyTiny, plus battery holders, conductive thread, LEDs, and batteries—I decided to start at the very beginning with the simplest projects. I did my first test project, a simple battery and LED connected with conductive thread. The project directions tell you to make it into a bookmark, but since I knew I'd never use that, I crocheted a bracelet.

https://twitter.com/jenztweets/status/766444163659202560

I decided the LED didn't look right by itself, so I crocheted a flower to hide it a little better. The light is super bright, too much to just leave it on like a decoration. But I could definitely use it if I needed a light, like reading a menu in a dark restaurant (one of Mr. JJ's pet peeves) or if I've forgotten to leave the porch light on and I'm trying to see the keyhole in my front door (a surprisingly frequent occurance).
 

jallenecs

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Art often does very very well at large regional cons, both in the hucksters area(s) and in the art show.

The one con I attend usually does really well with merchanting. Or at least I always spend too much money.

Interesting note to the bead folks. This last con, there was a bead lady there with a terrific display of beads, buttons and other shiny dangly thingies. Or at least it was until one tray got knocked over, and beads went EVERYWHERE. So she poured all the mixed up beads into a big bowl, got a bunch of paper cups, and offered X amount of product to anybody who would help sort the beads back out. Most of Saturday, there was a rotating band of bead sorters settled around that table, sorting beads and having a grand old time (at least to judge by the amount of laughing going on).

I just saw a video about why trains suck in the US: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbEfzuCLoAQ

Summary: Amtrak has only been around since the 70s, owns very little existing tracks (and freight trains get priority on the tracks they own, often forcing passenger trains to run late). There's a vicious circle of not enough funding to build needed infrastructure and people not using trains (to provide said funding).

When my kids went to Washington DC with their JROTC team, they took Amtrak, and said it was a wonderful trip. My dad, during the 1940's and 50's, used to go all up and down the East Coast on the train, and said it was something I should do before I died. He said traveling by train was a unique experience. One day I'll take him up on it. No way anybody's getting me into a plane, that's for damned sure.

MUCHLY MUCHNESS with the pain today, since I woke up this morning. If I'm not doing any better by tomorrow afternoon, I'm ditching physical therapy. Weather shift here is doing it, I think; we've gone from hot and dry to very very rainy, complete with flash flooding. Went to the movies with the sisters tonight (new Rifftrax Live of Mothra), but couldn't enjoy it for the ouchies. Came home, took gabapentin. Don't know if it'll help, but it'll at least knock me out.
 

snow1flower

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Hi Cantina!

I've never been to a con. I really would love to go to our comicon or the tattoo convention that comes through these parts in the spring. Tattoo con would be fun for people watching, and maybe to get a random tat with an uncommon story...well, I was there so why not...
But dragon con sounds super fun!
Anyway....
 

Filigree

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Greendragon, I actually got a beaded tapestry or two into the 1995 or 1996 Dragoncon art show (no sales, and had to mail them because I couldn't afford to go.) I've come along as an artist since then...but I left most fandom based sales venues in favor of mainstream.

Junely, your story made me snort tea. A big local bead store (Beads Galore is the actual name) has two large 9'x2.5' bins 10" deep, filled with loose beads. $.12 per gram. Many of us bead addicts will spend happy hours puttering in the loose bead bins.
 
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Caitlin Black

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Had a very long, but very enjoyable, first official day of my first ever conference today. As in, I left the house at 5.40am, and got back around 7.40pm. But it was amazing. I've never been surrounded by so many writers at one time before! (Well, not in real life. AW is another matter entirely.) There were probably 200+ people there. Now, that sounds like peanuts compared to DragonCon, but it was still a huge number in my book. I mean, I've been in a lecture theatre with 200+ students enrolled in first-year English/creative writing topics... But by the time the writers were separated from the English students, and both were separated from those who dropped out, or who were just taking those topics as electives... Well, the number quickly reduced to less than 50 writers at any given time.

But the thing that amazed me was this: I have social anxiety, but I didn't have that today. (Well, on public transport to and from, but not during the actual event, which lasted for 9.5 hours.) This leads me to believe that social anxiety is largely dependent on context - that if you wind up being surrounded by "your people", the anxiety doesn't bother you, but that in day-to-day life, you're surrounded by strangers who are not "your people". So yeah... If any of you are skipping conventions due to anxiety in crowds... Well, I don't think the anxiety levels would be particularly bad for a writer at a writer's convention.

Anyway... I'll be heading to bed soonish, and then 2 more days of conventioneering! :D
 

Alary

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But the thing that amazed me was this: I have social anxiety, but I didn't have that today. (Well, on public transport to and from, but not during the actual event, which lasted for 9.5 hours.) This leads me to believe that social anxiety is largely dependent on context - that if you wind up being surrounded by "your people", the anxiety doesn't bother you, but that in day-to-day life, you're surrounded by strangers who are not "your people". So yeah... If any of you are skipping conventions due to anxiety in crowds... Well, I don't think the anxiety levels would be particularly bad for a writer at a writer's convention.

Anyway... I'll be heading to bed soonish, and then 2 more days of conventioneering! :D

I think it would be even worse at a writing conference because of impostor syndrome. I'd constantly feel like I'd be unmasked as a fraud any moment now, hahah.

I keep having to remind myself that I can skip boring stuff and go to the more exciting parts in a first draft. I've been slogging through a part that just wouldn't flow, and then I got fed up and just went to the next one. And then I realised that it might actually be better for pacing if I left out the scene that gave me trouble.

Writing first drafts is a pain, but I can't help but appreciate that you can essentially do whatever you want, as long as it helps with getting the words down.
 

greendragon

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Cliff Face, there's definitely something to your theory. Being surrounded by like-minded individuals is very different than with random strangers.

Aggy B, it reminds me of a courtyard mezzanine. Or old Roman villas around a courtyard.

Trains - I've ridden a train from London to Leeds, and it was lovely. I'd love to train the Highland Train to Skye (i.e., go over the Harry Potter Glenfinnan Viaduct) some day. But I also love flying. The airport security, not so much, but actually flying is delightful to me. I wonder if that's genetic? My dad is a licensed pilot. Which I didn't know until I had loved flying for many years.

I went to my first meeting of the local authors' group last night. They meet every Thursday night and share up to 10 pages of work for group critique. Good people! And my imposter syndrome got squashed - they were very complimentary! I think I took all critiques with good grace. One of the other authors, not so much. But I liked her, and she writes Irish hist fic like me, so we'll be friends :D
 

Aggy B.

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Morning, Cantina.

Mr. Aggy's off working again. I have no errands to run and only a couple of things to tackle around the house so I'm planning to word heavily in a bit.

This weekend is going to be busy. Monkey has a classmate's birthday party tomorrow. Then his birthday is on Sunday. (We're not having a party outside of our nuclear family, but we'll probably go do something he likes.)

So, if I want to get words in, now is probably the time to do it.

Aggy, boo, housework. Yay, words!
 

E.F.B.

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Morning Cantina. Er...I feel like there was something else I wanted to say, but it has left my brain atmosphere. Sooooo, I will be doing wordage today and continuing my quest to make more precise prices for my Etsy stuff. That last thing is going to take a while because I have to sort through my old receipts to find out what the materials actually cost so I can price enough that I make enough profit to keep making things but not charge so much that it's too much. It's definitely a balancing act. Sigh.

42 pages edited today! That's a great number. Only 54 left. Can I get them done on Friday? That's a big chunk. Almost 1/3 of the book. We shall see. Anyone want to make wagers?
You can do all the things!

Hi all. Back again after surviving another week of work. And this time I do mean surviving. Our invasive plant treatment crew was down a few people so I went with them to spray Himalayan blackberry around a reservoir. I swear, it was the week from hell. The first day was all climbing up this steep hillside with a 3-gallon backpack sprayer through blackberry canes as high as my chest, poison oak, and tons of trees and shrubbery. Then I get to the top and realize I lost my GPS unit and had to climb back down. Fortunately, I found right where I thought I lost it, where I had to do a barrel-roll to get over this tangle of bay laurel trees. Unfortunately, that was near the bottom of the hill.

Day two wasn't so bad, just climbing over rock ledges below the dam. Less poison oak, but day three SUCKED. We had to climb down to this valley on a trail that didn't believe in switchbacks and then traverse up a canyon which involved loads of river fording and down-climbing cliffs. With the backpack sprayer still on (and my own backpack strapped to the back of that). At one point trying to get down a ravine a rock slipped from under my foot and I only kept from falling by hugging this oak tree (and the poison oak surrounding it). It took us thirteen hours to finish. At the last river fording I was basically "screw it" and crossed without bothering to take off my clothes or shoes. I'm covered in bruises and scratches and I don't remember the last time I cursed so much. The only saving grace is that I love the people I work with, our bunkhouse had a hot tub and we brought loads of booze with us to assuage our pain. Oh, and I freaking found a drone in the middle of nowhere. I'll see if I can find the owner (they're illegal in the park, so I don't know if they'll claim it) but if not I'm going to try to get it to fly again. It's in good shape, but needs a new battery.

Thanks for letting me rant :):).
o_O :Hug2: for all the nasty things and for not falling down a ravine! If no one claims the drone y'all should totally make it an official tool and use it to go look at those hard to get to places. Like those places that make you risk falling down a ravine.

ION: Being stood up sucks, but I'm being productive with my newly freed evening, so I'm not feeling as sorry for myself as I thought I would. :e2BIC:
Why would someone stand up our LAM??? :( Shame on them! Shame, I say!

Glad you made the best of it though. :)

Interesting note to the bead folks. This last con, there was a bead lady there with a terrific display of beads, buttons and other shiny dangly thingies. Or at least it was until one tray got knocked over, and beads went EVERYWHERE. So she poured all the mixed up beads into a big bowl, got a bunch of paper cups, and offered X amount of product to anybody who would help sort the beads back out. Most of Saturday, there was a rotating band of bead sorters settled around that table, sorting beads and having a grand old time (at least to judge by the amount of laughing going on).
LOL! Well, that was a good way to handle it! :)

When my kids went to Washington DC with their JROTC team, they took Amtrak, and said it was a wonderful trip. My dad, during the 1940's and 50's, used to go all up and down the East Coast on the train, and said it was something I should do before I died. He said traveling by train was a unique experience. One day I'll take him up on it. No way anybody's getting me into a plane, that's for damned sure.
Haha, you sound like my mom. She'd gladly take a train, but insists that if we put her on a plane we'd have to give her a sedative that would knock her out, like they always did to Mr. T on "The A Team". :p

But the thing that amazed me was this: I have social anxiety, but I didn't have that today. (Well, on public transport to and from, but not during the actual event, which lasted for 9.5 hours.) This leads me to believe that social anxiety is largely dependent on context - that if you wind up being surrounded by "your people", the anxiety doesn't bother you, but that in day-to-day life, you're surrounded by strangers who are not "your people". So yeah... If any of you are skipping conventions due to anxiety in crowds... Well, I don't think the anxiety levels would be particularly bad for a writer at a writer's convention.

Anyway... I'll be heading to bed soonish, and then 2 more days of conventioneering! :D
No crowd anxiety here, but I do understand based on some non-convention experiences how awesome it can be to be surrounded by kindred spirits. Kind of feels like being home. :)

I think it would be even worse at a writing conference because of impostor syndrome. I'd constantly feel like I'd be unmasked as a fraud any moment now, hahah.
You're not an imposter, silly. Do you put words on the page? You're a writer, plain and simple. Own it! Love it! Wear it with pride! :)

I keep having to remind myself that I can skip boring stuff and go to the more exciting parts in a first draft. I've been slogging through a part that just wouldn't flow, and then I got fed up and just went to the next one. And then I realised that it might actually be better for pacing if I left out the scene that gave me trouble.

Writing first drafts is a pain, but I can't help but appreciate that you can essentially do whatever you want, as long as it helps with getting the words down.
I need to remember this too. Sometimes I get spend way too much time trying to make a section work that ends up being deleted or completely overhauled so that it's an entirely different thing later on. I have to remind myself that in the first draft it's okay to just slap the words down so that they're on the page and they don't have to perfect. I ALWAYS able to write it even better later, so no need to sweat over it now.
 

greendragon

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I need to remember this too. Sometimes I get spend way too much time trying to make a section work that ends up being deleted or completely overhauled so that it's an entirely different thing later on. I have to remind myself that in the first draft it's okay to just slap the words down so that they're on the page and they don't have to perfect. I ALWAYS able to write it even better later, so no need to sweat over it now.

Interesting how we all work differently. I push through the slog with the 'fun' parts as a carrot. I am not good at piecemeal scene creation. I need to go scene by scene in order (even if one scene is a flashback, I have to write it in the order it is in the book). Maybe that's why I don't like chapter numbers. I use 'parts', like 3-5 parts in the book, but I just have scene breaks with ***** between them now.
 

CobraMisfit

I want to be Comic Sans.
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When my kids went to Washington DC with their JROTC team, they took Amtrak, and said it was a wonderful trip. My dad, during the 1940's and 50's, used to go all up and down the East Coast on the train, and said it was something I should do before I died. He said traveling by train was a unique experience. One day I'll take him up on it.

You should. Riding by rail is a wonderful, though not always the most affordable, way to see the country. Makes me wish the system in the US was better.

No way anybody's getting me into a plane, that's for damned sure.

Aw.

Emoticon: Sad Face


ETA: What about a helicopter*?

I think it would be even worse at a writing conference because of impostor syndrome. I'd constantly feel like I'd be unmasked as a fraud any moment now, hahah.

You'd be one of thousands who loves writing. That is a powerful family to belong to and it's even more exciting when they're in one location, sharing that love together.



Morning, gang.

Whut up?







*AKA: God's Aircraft.
 
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Alary

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You're not an imposter, silly. Do you put words on the page? You're a writer, plain and simple. Own it! Love it! Wear it with pride! :)

You'd be one of thousands who loves writing. That is a powerful family to belong to and it's even more exciting when they're in one location, sharing that love together.
Hey, I never said impostor syndrome makes sense, now did I? :p

(I should probably clarify that it's not keeping me away from conferences. :D)
 

E.F.B.

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*stares at Olympic synchronized swimming* It's weird and yet fascinating at the same time. o_O
...I should probably be writing right now.

Hey, I never said impostor syndrome makes sense, now did I? :p

(I should probably clarify that it's not keeping me away from conferences. :D)
Good for you :Thumbs:
 
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