The Dastardly Dungeon of Deliciously Devious Drinks

Oh, and also: It's been a long time since I saw Starship Troopers (I was a young teen, I think), but I don't remember it as being B-movie-esque. Seemed like an ordinary sci-fi movie to me. *shrug* Then again, at that time I was also playing Warhammer 40,000, playing as the bugs (Tyranids), so I definitely remember attaching WH40k love to Starship Troopers.

aliwood said:

Today's question: should I read Valley of the Dolls? Is it worth my time?

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In a word, no. Watch about two hours worth of Eastenders, then watch A Star is Born (the original, not that blah Streisand seventies remake), you've got Valley of the Dolls.

ETA: Seriously, what a disappointment!! Not one supernaturally demon-possessed doll anywhere! No killer robot Barbies! Why bother?

jallenecs said:

In a word, no. Watch about two hours worth of Eastenders, then watch A Star is Born (the original, not that blah Streisand seventies remake), you've got Valley of the Dolls.

ETA: Seriously, what a disappointment!! Not one supernaturally demon-possessed doll anywhere! No killer robot Barbies! Why bother?

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Did you go into The Grapes of Wrath making "In Great Depression California, grapes eat you!" jokes to yourself?

No work for me today! Writing. I have my Enya station on and I shall write commencing now. Hopefully I can get my 2K words in. Or more. We shall see.

I've also got one four books on my 'to review' list and one on the 'beta' list, but dammit, enough procrastination!

tiddlywinks said:

Oooh. Nice title, GD.

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Thanks, Winks! It's the second trilogy in Druid's Brooch. The first were the Legacy books listed in my siggy. Each of the three books will have 'Misfortune' in the title, and is set in the 11th/12th century Ireland. The last trilogy will be in the 5th/6th centuries Ireland. Yes, I have the main plots and main characters of all the books already laid out Because I'm a PLANNER!!!

lilyWhite said:

Did you go into The Grapes of Wrath making "In Great Depression California, grapes eat you!" jokes to yourself?

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Well, now you mention it......

Seriously, my mom went on a John Steinbeck kick when I was in junior high. She read his entire oeuvre, and handed each off to me with a review. She warned me, "take antidepressants before you read Grapes of Wrath." Totally poisoned my experience. The only works of his I ended up enjoying were "Travels with Charley," "Cannery Row"/"Sweet Thursday," and "Tortilla Flat."

Wordage is a wonderful thing.

*Has missed writing the words*

jallenecs said:

.BUT! We're gonna shake this off and get back to work. We're starting by getting a vente screwdriver here in the Cantina; do y'all have screwdrivers in bucket-size?

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*slides a bucket of screwdrivers towards Junely* Somehow, I don't think that's what you meant. *does not know alcoholic beverages*

jallenecs said:

In a word, no. Watch about two hours worth of Eastenders, then watch A Star is Born (the original, not that blah Streisand seventies remake), you've got Valley of the Dolls.

ETA: Seriously, what a disappointment!! Not one supernaturally demon-possessed doll anywhere! No killer robot Barbies! Why bother?

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It does sound like a horror movie title, doesn't it? XD (Honestly, I've never heard of it so I sort of thought that's what it was)


Happy Saturday, Cantina! I seem to be going through a period of having vivid odd dreams that I actually remember, because now I've gone and dreamed about the SSSFFSS. Not my story, mind you, the Sisyphus event itself. I dreamed that, instead of getting someone's story as a "prize" we all got random prizes like little plastic medals and stuff magically appearing in our houses at the end of Sisyphus. Seeing how I'm looking forward to reading an actual story, this was a tad disappointing.


So...I'll be working on wordage today. There wasn't much in the way of new words yesterday, but that was because I had to go back and figure out where it felt like the story had gotten off track and course-correct. I think I got the majority of that done so hopefully new words can happen now.

Hey guys! I was written up in a local newspaper!

Also, I wrote 2370 words today. Taking a break now to do beading.

Congrats on the write up!

I'm getting ready to take the little kidlets to the Batman Lego event at Barnes & Noble. Then I don't know what after. Big kidlet is with my parents for her birthday weekend with them. She turns 11 on Tuesday.

Good afternoon, Cantina. I've been entirely unproductive today. I've spent most of the day on the couch watching TV. I decided a change was needed, so I moved my lazy butt upstairs to the computer. I also just ate entire Aero Bar.

jallenecs said:

In a word, no. Watch about two hours worth of Eastenders, then watch A Star is Born (the original, not that blah Streisand seventies remake), you've got Valley of the Dolls.

ETA: Seriously, what a disappointment!! Not one supernaturally demon-possessed doll anywhere! No killer robot Barbies! Why bother?

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Ok thanks. *chucks book*

greendragon said:

Thanks, Winks! It's the second trilogy in Druid's Brooch. The first were the Legacy books listed in my siggy. Each of the three books will have 'Misfortune' in the title, and is set in the 11th/12th century Ireland. The last trilogy will be in the 5th/6th centuries Ireland. Yes, I have the main plots and main characters of all the books already laid out Because I'm a PLANNER!!!

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I know that feeling on the planner bit when it comes to series. I'm a pantser when it comes to sitting down and writing the novel. Well. Plotser. Because planner. That makes sense in my head, honest.

I have almost a book's worth of notes for each of my series I'm working on - you gotta have the end game in sight or you'll write yourself into a box along the way. That's my thinking anyway. I'm also a devious little reaper rodent who likes to hide things in the bushes in book 1 that are VERY IMPORTANT in later books. Because those kind of things always make me squee as a reader when I try to figure out plot points ahead of time and either a) find I'm right, or b) was completely surprised by devious author who threw that detail in there and it meant something, only not what I think it meant. *evil cackles*

It's a little easier on the paranormal romance series. Each is a self contained book but the overall plot interweaves back and forth, and while I'm weaving history and legend in there, it's certainly less complicated than the pirate fantasy. That thing starts to make my head explode sometimes. All in the execution there.

Then there's the epic fantasy series that shall not be brought up at the moment because those characters are terribly upset I'm waiting to come back and edit them into shape. Soon, my pretties. Soon.*

*translate soon into not happening in 2017.

*scurries off to go write in the Sisyphus and edit the not-sisyphus story, which grows darker by the minute*

tiddlywinks said:

I have almost a book's worth of notes for each of my series I'm working on - you gotta have the end game in sight or you'll write yourself into a box along the way. That's my thinking anyway. I'm also a devious little reaper rodent who likes to hide things in the bushes in book 1 that are VERY IMPORTANT in later books. Because those kind of things always make me squee as a reader when I try to figure out plot points ahead of time and either a) find I'm right, or b) was completely surprised by devious author who threw that detail in there and it meant something, only not what I think it meant. *evil cackles*

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Do you write full time?

I have small kids and a full time job and soon the first book of a contemporary fantasy trilogy, and I wish I could plan that thoroughly, but I don't know how to find the time!

And what happens if you deviate from the plan? Every time I've tried outlining I just went veering off, and liking the new stuff better.

Teach me

JeanGenie said:

Do you write full time?

I have small kids and a full time job and soon the first book of a contemporary fantasy trilogy, and I wish I could plan that thoroughly, but I don't know how to find the time!

And what happens if you deviate from the plan? Every time I've tried outlining I just went veering off, and liking the new stuff better.

Teach me

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Hahahahahahahah...do I write full time. I wish! Nope, full time job here, too.

I wouldn't say I'm thorough in my planning. And my notes end up being more like guidelines. More often, it's research when I figure out a historical or mythological character has relevance. Then, that's a rabbit hole that often explodes the plot out into the broader series. I also make a lot of notes on my characters - their motivations, their backstory, their arc, major moments in the books, how I'm going to torture them with major scenes, etc. When it comes time to write those scenes, their reactions will often be different than I expected, which will lead the plot to deviate slightly from where I had planned. Even when it's a major deviation though, I find it often syncs back up to the path I had outlined later. Often for the better!

I also take a lot of notes on projects because I have a bad case of plot-bunny-itis, meaning shiny ideas will pop up while I'm working on something else. So I write them all down and jot down any scenes that are just begging to be heard. I find that helps settle things, so I can go back to my WIP.

If you veer off, and you like the new stuff better, that's good! Characters don't always listen to you. Pesky characters, thinking they have a mind of their own...

ETA: Just make sure in a series, you don't end up with plot inconsistencies. That's the benefit of planning, so you don't throw a major wrench in things if you were to realize, "Oh hey, that character I killed in book one? Kinda would have been good to have him here for this, which would have made him ten times more evil." Or have a moment where a character did something in an earlier book that the author made a big cadoo over, as if it were going to be important, only for it to be dropped to the wayside. That might just be me, but I find that very frustrating.

tiddlywinks said:

Hahahahahahahah...do I write full time. I wish! Nope, full time job here, too.

I wouldn't say I'm thorough in my planning. And my notes end up being more like guidelines. More often, it's research when I figure out a historical or mythological character has relevance. Then, that's a rabbit hole that often explodes the plot out into the broader series. I also make a lot of notes on my characters - their motivations, their backstory, their arc, major moments in the books, how I'm going to torture them with major scenes, etc. When it comes time to write those scenes, their reactions will often be different than I expected, which will lead the plot to deviate slightly from where I had planned. Even when it's a major deviation though, I find it often syncs back up to the path I had outlined later. Often for the better!

I also take a lot of notes on projects because I have a bad case of plot-bunny-itis, meaning shiny ideas will pop up while I'm working on something else. So I write them all down and jot down any scenes that are just begging to be heard. I find that helps settle things, so I can go back to my WIP.

If you veer off, and you like the new stuff better, that's good! Characters don't always listen to you. Pesky characters, thinking they have a mind of their own...

ETA: Just make sure in a series, you don't end up with plot inconsistencies. That's the benefit of planning, so you don't throw a major wrench in things if you were to realize, "Oh hey, that character I killed in book one? Kinda would have been good to have him here for this, which would have made him ten times more evil." Or have a moment where a character did something in an earlier book that the author made a big cadoo over, as if it were going to be important, only for it to be dropped to the wayside. That might just be me, but I find that very frustrating.

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Yes, it's the series-thing that's new to me. I spend a long time on my books and I really don't want to have to write all three just to have the whole thing rejected anyway. And I know that if I write the first, and then detailed outlines for the two next, there are probably going to be major changes. I really don't know how to query for a first in a triology. It will have a arch and tie up many major plot-lines, but there will be stuff that's still unresolved.

I've tried writing notes on the characters as you mention, but I end up never going back to them and don't really use them. Even now, close to the end of book one, I've not made up my mind as to who's the main villain

I'm basically screwed

Practical question: how detailed are your outlines? In my experience they just become too detailed and I end up thinking "what the hell, I'm just going to write the damn book and dont waste my time on this."

Afternoon everyone. Just got back from the weekly shopping of foodstuffs for the week. We have a lovely store called Aldi's (it's owned by the Trader Joes franchise) where I can get 90% of my usual foodstuffs. My bill is almost half of what it would be at the local store. It's a 30 minute drive but saving $50+ a week is worth it.


WHile I was driving I figured out the Sissyfus story, how to fix my novel, and perhaps how to work on a finished novella. Will see how much I can get written on option 1 this weekend. Option 2 will require rewriting the outline. Option 3 will require writing an outline.

But first, client work. 2 newsletters, a blog post, then doing the final polish on editing client.

Oh and questionable market contacted me yesterday. Their website is now up again. Nothing has been updated on Doutrope. They will make a decision on the stories in the next few days. But I'm skeptical. Almost crossing my fingers that I DON'T get an acceptance.

Afternoon, Cantina.

Today we took the large, floral couch to the Habitat Home Store. It was a nice couch, but also floral, and too large to keep. (It only really fit in two of the rooms of the house and one of those is being turned into a model train room and the other will be a kind of dining room/library and lacked the space for couch plus 12 foot table.) But that's one step toward getting the house organized and functional.

Working on the SSSFFSS some today. Also going to be making cookies later this evening or tomorrow for the New Year's party on Monday. (Kids kenpo class, so we're making 4 dozen ninjabread cookies. That's not too much of a challenge. But making them with Monkey helping might be.)

Also managed to pick up my meds today. After the crippling headache last night, I was not going to go any longer without.

Aggy, still in need of a nap

JeanGenie said:

Practical question: how detailed are your outlines? In my experience they just become too detailed and I end up thinking "what the hell, I'm just going to write the damn book and dont waste my time on this."

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Hmm. Well, I plan, A LOT, but I don't do a detailed outline per se. Greendragon might do more outlining than I do. I think about major plot points and scenes. I don't always know exactly what order they are meant to be in, or what the lead up will be, but that gives me a direction where my characters (and plot) are headed.

When I think about a particular detail or point of history or myth that I'm using, that's where I tend to make a lot of notes to self for later. And sometimes those notes turn into intriguing rabbit holes where I discover something entirely new about my story that opens up a whole new angle to the broader storyline. I end up drawing strange connections between what I thought were seemingly random things I'd research. Like sirens and Sleeping Beauty myths. That...um...became interesting in my pirates stuff.

As for notes on my characters, I do a lot of thinking about their arcs and their relationships to the other characters. It makes a big difference when I get down to writing later because then I have a fairly firm idea of what their end-games are and how that influences their interactions with each other. This helps me, personally, since I'm a plotser who likes to jump around when I'm writing. (Bad things happen when Winks tries to be a plotter and write her book in linear fashion.)

I also tend not to start my gigantor notes file on a series, until I'm a good way into the project and I know it's going to be a series. My paranormal romance went this way - I didn't completely know whether it would be a standalone or if there would be more when I began writing it. I kinda had an inkling, but not much vision for what that would look like until after I started developing the world in the first book. Versus HEA, which I knew from the beginning was a one and done.

Do what helps you in your process I find I go back through and review my notes. I use OneNote, which makes it easier for me to separate them out, versus the Giant Word Document that was my original epic fantasy notes file. I think EFB uses evernote. Some others use Scrivener.

Shadowflame said:

Afternoon everyone. Just got back from the weekly shopping of foodstuffs for the week. We have a lovely store called Aldi's (it's owned by the Trader Joes franchise) where I can get 90% of my usual foodstuffs. My bill is almost half of what it would be at the local store. It's a 30 minute drive but saving $50+ a week is worth it.

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+1 for the amazingness that is Aldi's!! I love it. We also cut our bill in at least half by shopping there. I didn't realize it was owned by Trader Joes franchise, but that explains a lot.

Shadow, would it be worth it to withdraw your story from that questionable mag?

tiddlywinks said:

Hmm. Well, I plan, A LOT, but I don't do a detailed outline per se. Greendragon might do more outlining than I do. I think about major plot points and scenes. I don't always know exactly what order they are meant to be in, or what the lead up will be, but that gives me a direction where my characters (and plot) are headed.

When I think about a particular detail or point of history or myth that I'm using, that's where I tend to make a lot of notes to self for later. And sometimes those notes turn into intriguing rabbit holes where I discover something entirely new about my story that opens up a whole new angle to the broader storyline. I end up drawing strange connections between what I thought were seemingly random things I'd research. Like sirens and Sleeping Beauty myths. That...um...became interesting in my pirates stuff.

As for notes on my characters, I do a lot of thinking about their arcs and their relationships to the other characters. It makes a big difference when I get down to writing later because then I have a fairly firm idea of what their end-games are and how that influences their interactions with each other. This helps me, personally, since I'm a plotser who likes to jump around when I'm writing. (Bad things happen when Winks tries to be a plotter and write her book in linear fashion.)

I also tend not to start my gigantor notes file on a series, until I'm a good way into the project and I know it's going to be a series. My paranormal romance went this way - I didn't completely know whether it would be a standalone or if there would be more when I began writing it. I kinda had an inkling, but not much vision for what that would look like until after I started developing the world in the first book. Versus HEA, which I knew from the beginning was a one and done.

Do what helps you in your process I find I go back through and review my notes. I use OneNote, which makes it easier for me to separate them out, versus the Giant Word Document that was my original epic fantasy notes file. I think EFB uses evernote. Some others use Scrivener.

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Haha, I write mythological too! I'm from Norway, so I'm digging into our fairytales. Lots of trolls and other creepy creatures. Let me know if you'd like a beta reader or a swap.

Scrivener is great, but I haven't tapped into the full potential yet, still getting used to it. Used Word for a long time + Evernote Ended up buying a new mac because Scrivener for PC annoyed me so much.

I wish I could be a Tolkien, with more notes on the story than actual story. He seemed to be in full control

No, no, no, you DO not wish to be a Tolkien. I'm not a Tolkien, either, but I can tell you the extreme of how it can go both ways.

1) You are a Brandon Sanderson and you write doggedly for years (with spousal support), building immensely layered cosmologies and great stories, before finally getting 'discovered'. After more years of dogged work, you are a NAME.

2) You're an unknown writer who plugs away for years (with or without family/spousal support), building immensely layered cosmologies and what you hope are great stories. But what actually happens is that well-meaning other writers continually remind you how foolish it is to write sequels to books that probably won't get published by a 'real publisher'. Agents and editors start yawning immediately - or outright run away - if you let slip that you've been worldbuilding for over 30 years. (If you read between the lines, they want easily-sold standalones from debut authors, and may only accept series proposals from authors who have 'proven themselves in the market.) In short, unless you can pull it off *brilliantly*, you'll be less of a Tolkien-type phenomenon than the genre lit equivalent of the Simpsons' Crazy Cat Lady (only you're flinging mms at people instead of cats.)

Go this second, more likely route, and you'll be left with lower-ranked, lower paying small presses, or self-publishing. For those of us who write big worlds as a hobby, responsibly-edited & marketed self-publishing may be the better option, anyway. In genre, for example, if Tor, DAW, Del-Rey, and the other big to medium-sized independents pass on your work, it might be wise to look hard at self-pub.

Added: it's much easier to write fast (and well! don't forget that!) and toward generally marketable trends, so you can have at least a couple of books coming out a year to build that backlist.

Filigree said:

No, no, no, you DO not wish to be a Tolkien. I'm not a Tolkien, either, but I can tell you the extreme of how it can go both ways.

1) You are a Brandon Sanderson and you write doggedly for years (with spousal support), building immensely layered cosmologies and great stories, before finally getting 'discovered'. After more years of dogged work, you are a NAME.

2) You're an unknown writer who plugs away for years (with or without family/spousal support), building immensely layered cosmologies and what you hope are great stories. But what actually happens is that well-meaning other writers continually remind you how foolish it is to write sequels to books that probably won't get published by a 'real publisher'. Agents and editors start yawning immediately - or outright run away - if you let slip that you've been worldbuilding for over 30 years. (If you read between the lines, they want easily-sold standalones from debut authors, and may only accept series proposals from authors who have 'proven themselves in the market.) In short, unless you can pull it off *brilliantly*, you'll be less of a Tolkien-type phenomenon than the genre lit equivalent of the Simpsons' Crazy Cat Lady (only you're flinging mms at people instead of cats.)

Go this second, more likely route, and you'll be left with lower-ranked, lower paying small presses, or self-publishing. For those of us who write big worlds as a hobby, responsibly-edited & marketed self-publishing may be the better option, anyway. In genre, for example, if Tor, DAW, Del-Rey, and the other big to medium-sized independents pass on your work, it might be wise to look hard at self-pub.

Added: it's much easier to write fast (and well! don't forget that!) and toward generally marketable trends, so you can have at least a couple of books coming out a year to build that backlist.

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Hmmm...is there a third option? The Holy Grail known as "standalone potential"? Still haven't figured out what it is

greendragon said:

Hey guys! I was written up in a local newspaper!

Also, I wrote 2370 words today. Taking a break now to do beading.

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Congratulations on the write-up! You look very different than I imagined. Much much less dragon=like, and no fire-breathing.

I've continued on the YouTube / videogame binge. Younger Daughter, Younger Son and I have spent the afternoon playing a top-down stealth game called Monaco. it's on the Xbox, and is very retro eight-bit style, which appeals to the old-school gamer in me. It's a co-op game, with little sprites trying to do Ocean's Eleven type heists. Yeah, you can imagine how well that goes; all my gaming reflexes say "confront," so it's very hard to get into the rhythm of "sneak around." We were terrible, BUT, we laughed till my tummy hurt. We're only now getting started on supper; lost track of time.

JeanGenie said:

Haha, I write mythological too! I'm from Norway, so I'm digging into our fairytales. Lots of trolls and other creepy creatures. Let me know if you'd like a beta reader or a swap.

Scrivener is great, but I haven't tapped into the full potential yet, still getting used to it. Used Word for a long time + Evernote Ended up buying a new mac because Scrivener for PC annoyed me so much.

I wish I could be a Tolkien, with more notes on the story than actual story. He seemed to be in full control

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I write mythological, mostly Ireland. HOWEVER... I have in my to-do list a story set in 12th century Iceland. Got any good resources for me? I would like to be a beta swap!

jallenecs said:

Congratulations on the write-up! You look very different than I imagined. Much much less dragon=like, and no fire-breathing.

I've continued on the YouTube / videogame binge. Younger Daughter, Younger Son and I have spent the afternoon playing a top-down stealth game called Monaco. it's on the Xbox, and is very retro eight-bit style, which appeals to the old-school gamer in me. It's a co-op game, with little sprites trying to do Ocean's Eleven type heists. Yeah, you can imagine how well that goes; all my gaming reflexes say "confront," so it's very hard to get into the rhythm of "sneak around." We were terrible, BUT, we laughed till my tummy hurt. We're only now getting started on supper; lost track of time.

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I don't breathe fire very much. It's pretty tough on the computer monitors.