The Dastardly Dungeon of Deliciously Devious Drinks

Aggy B. · Feb 9, 2016

E.F.B. said:
That's the kind of thing that freaks me out when I think about publishing. How on earth does anyone write on deadlines like that? 0.0 I just want to be able to write and let the ideas come as they want to, which they're going to do anyway. I can't force them.

Organization and practice will make a difference. The longer I've been writing steadily, the less I deal with "Blank Page Syndrome".

This is due to a number of things.
1. Writing enough that I have (for the most part) worked past the instinct that I have to get it right the first time and that even when I'm certain a scene sucks, I can come back later and fix it.
2. Learning how to work on things in a mental space before hand. Especially while doing other tedious physical things, I can work through a scene I want to write - plan out actions and bits of dialog, etc - so that when I sit down to write I already have a rough draft sitting in my head.
3. Organizing the bits that can be organized. I rarely write from an outline, but working one out (especially by hand) helps me figure out where things are going to be problematic and brainstorm various ways to solve the issue before I'm partway through the book or story. And, personally, I find that having a goal for where I want to end the story is more useful than not. Even in the cases where I've wound up with a completely different ending by the time I'm done.
4. Lots of practice. Writing words does lead to writing more words more easily.
5. Being flexible when necessary. (Basically, when things aren't working right, knowing when to walk away for a day or six.)
6. Being hardcore the rest of the time. (When things are going right, putting the hammer down until I hit a snag.)
7. Recognizing that not every project works/progresses the same as any other project. (The Spider Thief novel was 65k of pantsing and required one minor round of polishing to be ready for submission. The Weird West novel I wrote next required five rounds of revisions in order to get it to really work.)

All of these things took me years to not just figure out, but also to learn and put into practice. (And there's a whole different level of self-care to deal with anxiety issues and RL stress that I'm still learning, that's separate from writing, but has a big impact on my ability to work on anything creative.) Be patient with figuring out what works best for you and reevaluate periodically to see how what you're doing is meeting (or not meeting) your goals.

Aggy, competes mostly with herself

_Sian_ · Feb 9, 2016

E.F.B. said:
A very good guess, at least as far as the team I'm cheering for goes! I'm not into football enough to know the players, so I'm not cheering for any one of them in particular.

All the kids in my 1st grade Sunday school class said they're cheering for the Panthers too (one even wore his little Panthers jersey to church, LOL!), except for one boy who is a total sweetheart and said he'll cheer for both teams and be happy for whichever one wins.

ETA:

That is very sweet. And thank you

Shadowflame said:
Congrats

Thanking you

Filigree said:
So busy. Collecting art data for a massive upload to Amazon later this week, drooling over my loot from the Tucson Rock and Gem Show, and doing some last minute promo for a book launch tonight. Publisher's in Ireland, so the book is alive, mwahahahaha!

It is the small, filthy, and fun new novella in my sig.

Oooh. *nabs*

Btw, how do you find Wattpad? When I change my visa at the end of the year, I won't be able to earn money outside of my paramedic stuff, but I was looking to do the writing gig thing still.

Friendly Frog said:
Woohoo! *does happy dance*

Wait a minute, this is just my old Geek Card with the word 'niche' written on in crayon!

Oh well.

*does happy dance*

Woohoo! Go you!

You're lovely, thank you

Aggy B. said:
Yay, Sian! Excellent news.

Thanks

Niniva said:
Yay Sian!

Thanks

KateH said:

*Jumps with Kate*

Liosse de Velishaf said:
Congrats!

Thanks

Religion0 said:

Thanks

Hoplite said:
Congrats, Sian!

Thanks

TAMaxwell said:
And congratulations Sian!

*hides in the hot chocolate hot tub*

Thanks you

JJ Litke said:
Happy birthday TJ, and congrats again Sian!

Thanks

_Sian_ · Feb 9, 2016

amergina said:
Extra for Sian! Excellent! *Still remembers the SSSFFSS she wrote for me*

Would you believe I'm still working on that thing? It's no longer the 20-ish k it was though - more like 52k now. It makes a bit more sense than it did the first time though.

Filigree said:
I'm here until I'm not. Happy belated Birthday, TJ! Congrats, Sian!

Busy day yesterday (7 minutes ago, here): book launch, online gallery setup, wrangling submissions, blown away by the ending of a trilogy I've been following for years. Writing my SSSFFSS story, too. Bye, folks, I must try this thing called 'sleep'.

Thanks

Good luck with your book launch!

- - - Updated - - -

Also, happy belated birthday TJ! Sorry I didn't join in the celebrations earlier *throws more balloons and nessie children in the air*

PeteMC · Feb 9, 2016

Wow, so much happens around here - congrats Sian, happy (very late!) birthday tj, and good luckFiligree!

E.F.B. said:
That's the kind of thing that freaks me out when I think about publishing. How on earth does anyone write on deadlines like that? 0.0 I just want to be able to write and let the ideas come as they want to, which they're going to do anyway. I can't force them.

It's not that bad, I have actually *written* the book, I'm just tidying up now. Delivery deadline isn't until April but I should be able to get to it them by the end of this month all being well.

Shadowflame said:
The short answer is they do.

The long answer is they make the time to do it and get really organized. My writing boss wrote 3 short novels in 18 months for a series. She put in a lot of work before hand and wrote a complete outline and a kind of mini version of each one. Then she drafted the novel, sent to a select few beta readers,(started the next one) revised sent to editor (worked on another one). It does help that she's a full time writer/freelancer but she's working on something all the time.

Yeah, time is one of those things you just have to find. I do my day job, come home and have dinner with my wife, then plonk myself in front of the computer and pretty much work until we go to bed. Not *every* night admittedly, but most of them.

Aggy B. said:
Organization and practice will make a difference. The longer I've been writing steadily, the less I deal with "Blank Page Syndrome".

Likewise. Hammer the keys until there are words. They may not be the *right* words to start with, but you can't fix something until you have something to fix.

I can get 80k-ish of first draft down in about three months - revising it usually takes about the same again. I submitted my final draft of Drake last March, and Dominion was finished by November on top of doing the edits & copy-edits for Drake.

Since November I've got about 35k of book 3 drafted, and I've only really gone back to tinkering with Dominion now because I've got time to and I can, not because it really needs it by this point.

Pete, wondering why he's always tired...

greendragon · Feb 9, 2016

Congrats, Sian! And Happy Birthday, TJ!

Just got back from cleaning out the old house and doing the walk-through with the landlord. Minor repairs, mostly wear and tear. No biggies. And then four hours' drive through mostly snow, almost white-out conditions as I got into New York. Yay. But I'm back and husband is making steak and mushrooms for dinner

Also, got word that I will start on Feb 15, yay! Quick start, quick paycheck

But that means I have to print out a bunch of forms to bring with me. Which means finding my printer. Which is packed somewhere.

It normally takes me about 6 weeks to write a 100K novel. Now, that's first draft, and not including the pre-writing (Snowflake method - outline, synopsis, character profiles, scene list, etc.) or the editing.

hillaryjacques · Feb 9, 2016

_Sian_ said:
Btw, how do you find Wattpad? When I change my visa at the end of the year, I won't be able to earn money outside of my paramedic stuff, but I was looking to do the writing gig thing still.

What are you looking for out of a sharing site like Wattpad? I've found lots of eager-to-demanding readers but little in the way of crit (which I was not looking for, tbh). You kind of have to work to find like-minded authors. The Wattpad staff are really helpful.

greendragon · Feb 9, 2016

Hillaryjacques- one of my best friend has Jacques as her last name

Richard White · Feb 9, 2016

OK, one quick mention and then back to normal chatting, I promise. Just wanted to officially announce my Kickstarter was launched tonight. We now return you to the frivolity going on in the Cantina already in progress ...

Hey! Who let the smibbles loose with pole arms. Ouch!

zanzjan · Feb 9, 2016

Aggy has good advice, as does Pete.

I find that not watching tv helps a lot. Also, insomnia. But a lot of it boils down to the habit of routine, stubborn persistence, and being stuck on dialup internet from home that limits distractions.

Caitlin Black · Feb 9, 2016

And then there are some writers (ie. me) who seem completely unable to write consistently unless there's a deadline. Like, with this Sisyphus thing. I haven't finished it yet, and haven't done as much on it as I wanted to by now, but having a deadline took me from 3 months or so of no writing at all, to actually getting back into things.

It's the same with Uni homework, I think. I've never missed a homework deadline yet, and there have definitely been times when I really did have to force myself to do the work when I would rather sleep for a week. The quality of the writing, for me at least, is about the same whether I force it or not - but forcing it takes more energy and computer-time. (Not forcing it takes more life-time, because I avoid the task, but less computer-time, if you get my meaning.)

But yeah. For some of us, a deadline is enough of a motivator that we can do things we never thought we could.

Caitlin Black · Feb 9, 2016

That said, I'd rather just follow my muse, because then when I do write, it comes easier. But the catch to that is that it's all too easy for me to fall into a pattern of not writing at all.

Aggy B. · Feb 9, 2016

Cliff Face said:
That said, I'd rather just follow my muse, because then when I do write, it comes easier. But the catch to that is that it's all too easy for me to fall into a pattern of not writing at all.

Starting with the caveat that every writer is different. But I have to point out that when I started writing regularly, I stopped having to wait for inspiration. (It's kind of like the whole story idea thing. A lot of folks think they'll run out of ideas, but most folks find that once they start exploring ideas new ideas come to replace them. And then they start to multiply like rabbits. Creativity usually grows the more you exercise it.)

E.F.B. · Feb 9, 2016

Shadowflame said:
The short answer is they do.

The long answer is they make the time to do it and get really organized. My writing boss wrote 3 short novels in 18 months for a series. She put in a lot of work before hand and wrote a complete outline and a kind of mini version of each one. Then she drafted the novel, sent to a select few beta readers,(started the next one) revised sent to editor (worked on another one). It does help that she's a full time writer/freelancer but she's working on something all the time.

Aggy B. said:
Organization and practice will make a difference. The longer I've been writing steadily, the less I deal with "Blank Page Syndrome".

This is due to a number of things.
1. Writing enough that I have (for the most part) worked past the instinct that I have to get it right the first time and that even when I'm certain a scene sucks, I can come back later and fix it.
2. Learning how to work on things in a mental space before hand. Especially while doing other tedious physical things, I can work through a scene I want to write - plan out actions and bits of dialog, etc - so that when I sit down to write I already have a rough draft sitting in my head.
3. Organizing the bits that can be organized. I rarely write from an outline, but working one out (especially by hand) helps me figure out where things are going to be problematic and brainstorm various ways to solve the issue before I'm partway through the book or story. And, personally, I find that having a goal for where I want to end the story is more useful than not. Even in the cases where I've wound up with a completely different ending by the time I'm done.
4. Lots of practice. Writing words does lead to writing more words more easily.
5. Being flexible when necessary. (Basically, when things aren't working right, knowing when to walk away for a day or six.)
6. Being hardcore the rest of the time. (When things are going right, putting the hammer down until I hit a snag.)
7. Recognizing that not every project works/progresses the same as any other project. (The Spider Thief novel was 65k of pantsing and required one minor round of polishing to be ready for submission. The Weird West novel I wrote next required five rounds of revisions in order to get it to really work.)

All of these things took me years to not just figure out, but also to learn and put into practice. (And there's a whole different level of self-care to deal with anxiety issues and RL stress that I'm still learning, that's separate from writing, but has a big impact on my ability to work on anything creative.) Be patient with figuring out what works best for you and reevaluate periodically to see how what you're doing is meeting (or not meeting) your goals.

Aggy, competes mostly with herself

PeteMC said:
Wow, so much happens around here - congrats Sian, happy (very late!) birthday tj, and good luckFiligree!

It's not that bad, I have actually *written* the book, I'm just tidying up now. Delivery deadline isn't until April but I should be able to get to it them by the end of this month all being well.

Yeah, time is one of those things you just have to find. I do my day job, come home and have dinner with my wife, then plonk myself in front of the computer and pretty much work until we go to bed. Not *every* night admittedly, but most of them.

Likewise. Hammer the keys until there are words. They may not be the *right* words to start with, but you can't fix something until you have something to fix.

I can get 80k-ish of first draft down in about three months - revising it usually takes about the same again. I submitted my final draft of Drake last March, and Dominion was finished by November on top of doing the edits & copy-edits for Drake.

Since November I've got about 35k of book 3 drafted, and I've only really gone back to tinkering with Dominion now because I've got time to and I can, not because it really needs it by this point.

Pete, wondering why he's always tired...

zanzjan said:
Aggy has good advice, as does Pete.

I find that not watching tv helps a lot. Also, insomnia. But a lot of it boils down to the habit of routine, stubborn persistence, and being stuck on dialup internet from home that limits distractions.

Cliff Face said:
And then there are some writers (ie. me) who seem completely unable to write consistently unless there's a deadline. Like, with this Sisyphus thing. I haven't finished it yet, and haven't done as much on it as I wanted to by now, but having a deadline took me from 3 months or so of no writing at all, to actually getting back into things.

It's the same with Uni homework, I think. I've never missed a homework deadline yet, and there have definitely been times when I really did have to force myself to do the work when I would rather sleep for a week. The quality of the writing, for me at least, is about the same whether I force it or not - but forcing it takes more energy and computer-time. (Not forcing it takes more life-time, because I avoid the task, but less computer-time, if you get my meaning.)

But yeah. For some of us, a deadline is enough of a motivator that we can do things we never thought we could.

Aggy B. said:
Starting with the caveat that every writer is different. But I have to point out that when I started writing regularly, I stopped having to wait for inspiration. (It's kind of like the whole story idea thing. A lot of folks think they'll run out of ideas, but most folks find that once they start exploring ideas new ideas come to replace them. And then they start to multiply like rabbits. Creativity usually grows the more you exercise it.)

I learn so much from you guys. :heart:

I think the thing that hinders my writing progress the most is lack of focus. It used to be lack of focus+lack of organization, but I am finally starting to learn the organization part and things are going a lot better lately.

I am slowly but surely learning how to defeat the lack of focus.

Speaking of which... I have a little time before bed. I should probably spend it writing instead of being unfocused online.

See y'all in the morning!

JJ Litke · Feb 9, 2016

Aggy B. said:
Starting with the caveat that every writer is different. But I have to point out that when I started writing regularly, I stopped having to wait for inspiration. (It's kind of like the whole story idea thing. A lot of folks think they'll run out of ideas, but most folks find that once they start exploring ideas new ideas come to replace them. And then they start to multiply like rabbits. Creativity usually grows the more you exercise it.)

Same with me. I set a goal to write two short stories a month last year. At times I worried that I wouldn't be able to keep going, but the more stories I wrote the more ideas I came up with. It was a great exercise—I'd probably still be doing it if I didn't have way too much work going on right now.

Caitlin Black · Feb 9, 2016

Yep, I'd agree with that, Aggy. Like, if I sit down and write 1k words, then great, fantastic. But there's also a very good chance that this will prompt me to have a sudden flash of inspiration for the *next* 1k words - several times in a single day. I swear, if I didn't have to sleep, then once I "broke the seal", I could probably write an entire novel, straight-through, with only brief breaks to eat, drink and so on. Because yeah... Once I've reached the mindset required for the story, then it just keeps on coming, until I take a significant break.

That's not to say it'll be the same for everyone. But for me, this seems the best explanation for why I can write 50k words in a wonderful week, and then I let myself take one day off, and before I know it a month has passed. Like, with my novels - I'll write 30k or so in a short amount of time, and then somehow they get abandoned for a long time after that. It's consistent across the board, so I don't think it has much to do with which story it is.

So yeah... I would assume that if I could manage to be more consistent (ie. "I'll make time to write, at least a little bit, every day.") I'd never really have to look far for the next hit of inspiration. If a story is working, then having written recently "unlocks" the next bit of inspiration.

Moral of the story? I should never take a day off ever again, under punishment of whipping by an angry smibble. :tongue

Corsairs · Feb 9, 2016

Cliff Face said:
Moral of the story? I should never take a day off ever again, under punishment of whipping by an angry smibble.

That pretty much describes my approach to a T. I try to write every day, lest I lose the thread of my work. It's death on my free time and social life, but it does pay off in the form of product.

Richard White · Feb 9, 2016

I don't write daily, but that's probably because as a tech writer I burn myself out at work sometimes. So, some nights I write, some nights I read, and a few nights I spend visiting with other people, family, or on-line friends. When I do write, I tend to write in big bursts (2-5K) which considering how slow I type is pretty good.

When I finally retire in a few years, I wonder how much my productivity will pick up if I'm not writing all day before I get home.

hillaryjacques · Feb 9, 2016

greendragon said:
Hillaryjacques- one of my best friend has Jacques as her last name

Eggcelent.

zanzjan said:
I find that not watching tv helps a lot. Also, insomnia. But a lot of it boils down to the habit of routine, stubborn persistence, and being stuck on dialup internet from home that limits distractions.

Yep, yep, and *shudder* yep.

Caitlin Black · Feb 9, 2016

Just wrote a nice, big chunk of my Sisyphus story. Hooray!

greendragon · Feb 10, 2016

Good morning, all!

My goals today: Excavate the unpacked boxes to find the tools, find the printer, and hopefully find my bedside stuff - lamp, alarm clock, etc. If we find the tools, we can put together the kitchen island we bought, and husband will be at peace. We need the printer as there are a bunch of items I need to print out to fill out and bring to work on Monday for my first day - W4, I9, that stuff. Another goal is to hit the DMV today. And I have about three tax returns to finish, and a peyote-stitch bracelet pattern for lupus to create for a custom order.

Aggy B. · Feb 10, 2016

Oof.

The public meeting last night in which citizens in my area gathered to voice their complaints about the corrupt and broken sewer utility went really well. However, residual anxiety then wreaked havoc on my sleep. Up twice in the middle of the night to get a drink of water and try and settle down, but I'm still exhausted this morning.

Going to drink some tea and work on finishing up the super-secret project. Then (hopefully) in a few weeks I can finish up the Epic Not Fantasy before I start working on the sequel to the Southern Gothic novella around May.

Aggy, sleeeeeeepy

_Sian_ · Feb 10, 2016

hillaryjacques said:
What are you looking for out of a sharing site like Wattpad? I've found lots of eager-to-demanding readers but little in the way of crit (which I was not looking for, tbh). You kind of have to work to find like-minded authors. The Wattpad staff are really helpful.

Well I'm not really looking for crit, as such, just for a way to continue writing without earning money for it, but still sharing my stuff with people. The other option is setting up my own website, but they people would have to find it, there'd be promotion, etc etc. I'm just not allowed to earn money without sponsorship on the new Visa (which I'm not on until the end of next year, so I still have time), so I'm planning ahead atm.

evilsapphyre · Feb 10, 2016

Good morning everyone.

I had a couple of actual busy days at work, but today.... *listens to the crickets*

I'm going to go poke at my characters with that spear Hoplite gave me.

I've also got to send some links to my books to someone who was asking me about them on Sunday. (Drinking + a migraine = me being terrible at passing on said information, and my cards were safely in my car and not on my person....)

Shadowflame · Feb 10, 2016

Morning all. Grey again this morning although the skies do promise sunlight later.
I am not adjusting well to B's work schedule. The only time I see him M-F is from4:30 am until he goes to sleep so I usually kind of wake up when he gets home. But this is causing my insomnia to act up again. Plus my wrist is acting up along with my hip/knees. fun fun. Maybe a nap when I get home might work. Luckily I have Monday off so I'll get to sleep in then.

Dayjob has me quite stressed. I'm back to feeling as though I'm trying to shove boulders uphill by myself again. My Prez is not an onhand person however my VP is. So when I have an issue I take it to both of them and get a response more quickly because the VP double consults the P for decisions.

Yes I do know how to work this system to get things done. But there are other things that are stagnating that we worked hard for. My job isn't to push (unless it's for regulatory things) it's to facilitate. And right now things are just going in circles.

So I'm really having a difficult time with writing. Not much focus except right before I go to bed then my muse kind of explodes with ideas. I patiently write them down until she's quiet and try to sleep.

evilsapphyre · Feb 10, 2016

And now I have been conscripted into making cold calls for a sales blitz. *sighs*

I hate cold calls.

The Dastardly Dungeon of Deliciously Devious Drinks

Not as sweet as you think

Ooooh, pretty lights and sirens :D

Ooooh, pretty lights and sirens :D

@PeteMC666

Undercover, sort of...

Stealthy Plot Bunny Peddler

killin' all teh werds

Wild one

Wild one

Not as sweet as you think

Stories, stories everywhere

People are not wearing enough hats

Wild one

Saying it twice for truth

Stealthy Plot Bunny Peddler

Undercover, sort of...

Wild one

Not as sweet as you think

Ooooh, pretty lights and sirens :D

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