I only used the examples I did because I thought people would know them. And my question isn't detailed or specific to one thing I wrote. I don't see how seeing a failed attempt from me would add anything to the conversation. I just wanted to see how some stories get away with less than likable characters. It has nothing to do with any cannon or anything specific that I wrote. I just really like discussing these types of things with people here on AW. I don't think every thread has to be a big problem that is specific to the writer who started it. Not to say this isn't something I'm dealing with.
How do short story writers pull off unlikable characters?
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I only used the examples I did because I thought people would know them. And my question isn't detailed or specific to one thing I wrote. I don't see how seeing a failed attempt from me would add anything to the conversation. I just wanted to see how some stories get away with less than likable characters. It has nothing to do with any cannon or anything specific that I wrote. I just really like discussing these types of things with people here on AW. I don't think every thread has to be a big problem that is specific to the writer who started it. Not to say this isn't something I'm dealing with.
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I think characters tend to be more relatable, or at least presented in a way that allows for more connection, in genre as opposed to lit. They also often hone to tropes that people find comfortable and familiar. A gruff detective is an expected quantity, and it's as expected that he'll have a soft spot for something or someone. A cruel rake is going to end up doing something redemptive.
A boss mean to the MC is likely to get his or her comeuppance, and giving the MC an obvious antagonistic presence can shine a better light on even an unlikable MC. A lot of litfic is off-kilter from expectations, often on purpose, and often not centered around characters in the same way that, say, detective fiction is. Thus people have to connect with characters from no basic starting point - you kind of have to build it all in, if you see what I mean. Obviously they're human, in general, heh, but in genre you often get more backloaded, even if the reader only knows subconsciously that it'll be there.
I've never liked short stories. I like some, but it's not my thing. I know about writing and editing. You won't find a post from me about some short story-specific thing though. General things that apply to short- and long-form, yeah, and I think I posted in the fave short story thread once, but I've never liked them as a genre. I think I own two books of shorts, one a Stephen King and one David Rakoff, because Letterman recommended him.
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I read this as asking for help processing feedback from the creative writing class and help working on characterization. If that wasn't your intent, I apologize. In no way do I have an issue with anyone discussing how to create characters. I tried to speak to that and to some of the conversation as it was developing. It is often easier to discuss these things in specific terms, though, because again, it's all in the execution. Again, I apologize if I offended.
Failed attempts are exactly where most learning takes place. My whole point was that you're looking at things in a general, analytical way and you're going to have to address the actual feedback... if you want feedback at all. I won't force it on you. That's not my place.
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Personally? Not usually...unless it was hilarious. I am better with unlikable characters if the story is funny.
But not everyone feels this way. My fiance does not care at all about likability when he reads.
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I don't think romance works at all if the characters are unlikable. Maybe it's easier to pull off in other genres (which I rarely read)? Not sure.
I only know I’ve written a compelling character when my critique group says I have! (I’m really not trying to be flippant with that answer. Some people like what I write and others don’t, so I just don’t worry about it.)
There are, however, two things I check before I hand my work off to be critiqued. They fall under the general question of “have I taken every opportunity to reveal character?”
1.) Does the plot reveal character?
It doesn’t matter to me if the plot is flashy. What matters to me is whether or not the plot fits the character. Does the plot test not only the character’s skills but the character’s psyche? It doesn’t mean, of course, that the character has to change but if the character doesn’t change then I want to see her struggle to maintain who she is. I want to see the character make a choice to remain the same.
This is also where motivation comes into play. What does the motivation tell me about the character? Did I pick the strongest motivation for that character or is there a better one?
2.) Do relationships reveal character?
We don’t react the same way to every person we meet. I have two very close friends. My behavior is still slightly different when I’m with Friend A than when I’m with Friend B. Reactions will be even more varied if you account for things like relative status, cultural norms, general circumstances, etc.
My goal in writing, of course, is for each relationship to reveal something different about how the character views herself or the world. Those slight shifts provide a sense of dynamism an also add to the depth and complexity of the character.
Overall, my goal is to have the character reveal something new through each circumstance or relationship. I don’t want to show readers something they’ve seen.
Playing with the subtext does help as well because it adds depth to the characters and allows readers to infer things about the characters. The goal, as always, is to reveal something new.
I think you may have something there. I believe all good stories have a plot, but I also believe that good fiction is about people, not events. I think the best fiction is always about character. Even in genre fiction, it's the characters we remember.
Or maybe you should write more genre fiction. Genre fiction done right becomes literary fiction. Not too many decades ago, there was no separation between literary and genre fiction. The only reason this separation too place was because of marketing. Before this, well-written fiction that had something to say was all that mattered.
Read through the famous short stories of the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries. Most of it would be published as genre fiction today. Then, writers simply tried to tell good stories that revealed character, but did so in the framework of adventure, or stories that were strong on plot, but equally as strong on character.
Even today, mystery, science fiction, and even horror stories frequently work their way into literary classification because of how well they're written, and how much they reveal about character. Perhaps your stories are fine on plot, but need more character added to the mix.
I've never believed fiction is character driven versus plot driven. Good fiction should be both.
Based on what I know, characters do not matter as much as does the story. I write short stories and I feel that I enjoy writing some stories (and reading some stories) because they have nice story lines, like many already pointed out. My personal tip would be to write a story and don't worry about the characters too much. 
Sure, but there are specific ways to make them interesting, and ways that completely fail to make them interesting. Just saying they have to be interesting is like saying, "At bottom, in order to sell, a story has to be good enough to sell."
Based on what I know, characters do not matter as much as does the story. I write short stories and I feel that I enjoy writing some stories (and reading some stories) because they have nice story lines, like many already pointed out. My personal tip would be to write a story and don't worry about the characters too much.
Character is story. Character is the only reason story exists. There can be no good story without very good characters, even if those characters are birds. Character is the be all and end all of literary fiction, and even more important than plot in genre fiction.
Story is nothing more than what happens to characters, and what affect it has on them. That's it. Period. Unless you give characters readers they care about, and have the story affect characters in a realistic and meaningful way, you have no story.
Write a story without worrying about character? Do this, and you'll write a lousy story. Unless, I suppose, you're good enough to make wonderful characters without thinking about it.
Depends what you mean by likeable. I love characters that I'd be afraid of, or worry about. Somebody I wouldn't want to be left alone with too long. What makes them interesting isn't that they donate to charity. What is a likeable character? Somebody that works at a soup kitchen and doesn't forget birthdays?
In my opinion, likeable characters aren't likebale. I need to see their flaws, and understand why they did what they did.
In my opinion, likeable characters aren't likebale. I need to see their flaws, and understand why they did what they did.
100% agree! Many of my characters are unlikable and detestable people. When I write them, I try to think like them and less like myself (because...I'd like to believe I'm a good person, haha). I try to get into that character's head as much as possible. If I really want to make the reader feel something...feel almost consumed by the character, I like to write terrible characters in first person. It's haunting, when you're reading about a detestable person from their direct POV.
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I think with unlikeable characters, they have to be intriguing. As others have said, a criminal character might have very strong moral values but they are warped. Characters with moral conviction in what they do are interesting. Unlikeable characters can reflect on our own bad thoughts- we might wish that we were more selfish and had affairs/more ruthless in the workplace/ said and did whatever we wanted, or we might want a glimpse of what that would be like.