Former Subway Spokesperson Jared Fogle Pleads Guilty to Child Porn Charges

ErezMA

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I wasn't comparing an eighteen year old to a ten year old. I wasn't trying to compare someone who engages in sex with eighteen year olds nor the morality contrast with ten year olds. I asked a question, since there was a sub-discussion based on labels of those who are sexually interested in some teenagers.

There was talk of ephebophilia and the sexual attraction to 14-16 year olds. I know there are a lot of people who get overly (in my opinion) excited over a girl who just turns 18, like it's a farmer's market and they were an apple that just became ripe. Although, now that I googled it, I found this:

"
  1. Ephebophilia is the primary or exclusive adult sexual interest in mid-to-late adolescents, generally ages 15 to 19. The term was originally used in the late 19th to mid 20th century. It is one of a number of sexual preferences across age groups subsumed under the technical term chronophilia."


    But I'm not saying that it's the same thing as a ten year old and a thirty/forty-something. It's not, and I've always felt that way. I've seen a sixteen year old arrested for statutory rape for having sex with his fifteen year old girlfriend. (Age of consent in MA is 16 years old.) I felt them having sex, in a mall of no less, stupid, but didn't feel it necessary that it should be criminal. (Also, to clarify, I used to be a security officer at a mall. I wasn't the officer who caught them, but I was on duty.)
 

cornflake

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I wasn't comparing an eighteen year old to a ten year old. I wasn't trying to compare someone who engages in sex with eighteen year olds nor the morality contrast with ten year olds. I asked a question, since there was a sub-discussion based on labels of those who are sexually interested in some teenagers.

There was talk of ephebophilia and the sexual attraction to 14-16 year olds. I know there are a lot of people who get overly (in my opinion) excited over a girl who just turns 18, like it's a farmer's market and they were an apple that just became ripe. Although, now that I googled it, I found this:

"
  1. Ephebophilia is the primary or exclusive adult sexual interest in mid-to-late adolescents, generally ages 15 to 19. The term was originally used in the late 19th to mid 20th century. It is one of a number of sexual preferences across age groups subsumed under the technical term chronophilia."


    But I'm not saying that it's the same thing as a ten year old and a thirty/forty-something. It's not, and I've always felt that way. I've seen a sixteen year old arrested for statutory rape for having sex with his fifteen year old girlfriend. (Age of consent in MA is 16 years old.) I felt them having sex, in a mall of no less, stupid, but didn't feel it necessary that it should be criminal. (Also, to clarify, I used to be a security officer at a mall. I wasn't the officer who caught them, but I was on duty.)

Where in the world did you get that definition, because it's jacked up. That's not in any way the correct age or maturity range.

Also, no 16-year-olds are arrested for "statutory rape" of their 15-year-old girlfriends. That's not how the statutes worked even when statutory rape was a crime most places.
 

kuwisdelu

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Not for nothing, but we don't know if Fogle is a pedophile. It doesn't seem particularly that'd be the case, based on what we do know, but you never know.

He was trolling for sex with 15 and 16-year-olds. Yes, technically that's ephebophilia, but he's also been quoted as saying "the younger, the better," and I've never thought that for normal discussion it's a distinction worth making.

I would normally be one to split hairs, because I do think it's an important distinction to make (because seriously, being sexually attracted to pubescent humans is not weird or unnatural in the least even though it may be morally wrong to pursue such relationships), but considering the facts in evidence (as quoted by amergina) I'm personally not at all hesitant to call him a pedophile.
 

ErezMA

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Whatever result you picked was wrong.

I re-googled and found that Google took from Wikipedia... so yes, that's a real possibility.

Also, I had no idea MA was bonkers; how does a state that liberal have rape laws that odd? Thanks for the cite.

I shit you not, I read the report. Then again, the cop was known for doing things his own way. A lot of people call him an asshole. I thought charging him with that was harsh, very harsh. Statutory rape laws are designed to keep people old enough to be someone's father/mother away from having sex, not someone by a freaking year. More likely than not, they are probably only months apart. Back during my "mall cop" days, whenever I caught teenagers having sex, I had them get dressed and called up their parents. (We're required actually if they're under 18.) I don't know about you, but part of me would rather be arrested for having sex in a mall parking lot than having to deal with my mom.
 

Celia Cyanide

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I would normally be one to split hairs, because I do think it's an important distinction to make (because seriously, being sexually attracted to pubescent humans is not weird or unnatural in the least even though it may be morally wrong to pursue such relationships), but considering the facts in evidence (as quoted by amergina) I'm personally not at all hesitant to call him a pedophile.

In this case, it seems a pretty reasonable assumption.
 

DancingMaenid

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That exact phrasing would be very dweebish and basically guarantee that the guy is a weirdo, but no, there's certainly nothing wrong with (or even squicky about) occasional non-exclusive attraction to 16- to 17-year-old humans (which are usually famous people who look older anyway).

But seeking out actual sex is another thing entirely even with 18-year-olds (taking specifically when the seeker is older than about 23), because there's no real reason to have sex with an 18-year-old when 20-year-olds exist.

Right. There's nothing abnormal about occasionally finding a post-pubescent teenager attractive. It's acting on those feelings that's irresponsible at best.

Sometimes people genuinely have a preference for teens and make a point to seek them out. That can be ephebephilia, but I also think it can also stem from more general controlling or abusive tendencies. Sometimes it's less about finding teenagers hotter than older adults and more about wanting partners that are less confident and experienced.
 

ErezMA

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This, goes without saying, is bad, but it's really upsetting and I can't get over the fact that Jared used to be someone we admired. I don't think I could find someone who wouldn't think it's great for him to lose almost 250 pounds. To go from someone who was a major figure in weight loss, to this.

I'm not trying to justify or even rationalize what he did because there's no excuse and he made these decisions on his own... It's just that he turned himself from a hero to a villain.
 

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Then what the eff is the RIGHT definition? And where are YOU pulling it from?

Geez, sorry. There's not a specific line in the sand, as there is with pedophilia (exclusive attraction to prepubescent children), but hebephilia is attraction to post-pubescent, but not fully mature children; usually the range is considered to be someplace between 11 and 14. It's also, controversially, not fully in the DSM, so it's a bit open, but fully mature teens aren't considered in relation for anything or anyone I've run across. Being attracted to 18-year-olds may be squicky, depending, but it's not pathological in that particular way.

This is a bit older, from a few years ago, but from researchers in the field -

The term hebephilia has been proposed to denote the erotic preference for pubescent children (roughly, ages 11 or 12-14),

This, goes without saying, is bad, but it's really upsetting and I can't get over the fact that Jared used to be someone we admired. I don't think I could find someone who wouldn't think it's great for him to lose almost 250 pounds. To go from someone who was a major figure in weight loss, to this.

I'm not trying to justify or even rationalize what he did because there's no excuse and he made these decisions on his own... It's just that he turned himself from a hero to a villain.

We who? I mean it's nice he lost weight but he did it eating shitty fast food he then shilled for.
 

ErezMA

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I do admit that his weight loss methods were a little misleading, but losing that much weight is a heroic thing. Who knows how many people he inspired? Even getting their ass off the couch and taking a walk around the block is something.
 

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Yeah, I never admired Jared. He lost weight and made a celebrity of himself - good for him. I never thought much about him beyond that. Maybe the ease with which some people get admired just for being famous is an object lesson here.
 

Celia Cyanide

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Geez, sorry. There's not a specific line in the sand, as there is with pedophilia (exclusive attraction to prepubescent children), but hebephilia is attraction to post-pubescent, but not fully mature children; usually the range is considered to be someplace between 11 and 14 .

The word he was using was ephebophilia, not hebephilia. It's not the same thing.
 
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mccardey

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I do admit that his weight loss methods were a little misleading, but losing that much weight is a heroic thing. Who knows how many people he inspired? Even getting their ass off the couch and taking a walk around the block is something.

Um - I've never had a weight problem, but even I think this statement has tone issues.
 

ErezMA

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"Admirable" I'd agree with "Heroic"? Seriously?

caw

Use which term you'd like. Depends on the guy. Ten years ago, when I was in high school and bumping it up around the 300 pound area, I never thought I'd get back down into the 200s. I never thought I'd be where I am today. I basically already gave up on myself. Sometimes, I still surprise myself when I'm as comfortable as I am now around a pool without a shirt. I'm surprised people don't stare or point fingers. I suppose this just has to be a YMMV kind of deals...
 

Cyia

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I can understand someone viewing a major weight loss role model as heroic, especially for someone who is well beyond morbidly obese when they're finally motivated to lose the extra weight. (This is assuming that they *can* lose the weight and don't have extenuating genetic or glandular factors where no amount of diet or exercise will really impact their weight without medical intervention.) That kind of lifestyle change literally saves lives.

Something people tend to forget with Jared F. is that he was a self-admitted glutton, putting away multiple pizzas in a single sitting on a daily basis, which is definitely not a normal dietary plan. When the first "look what I did" commercials came out, he said his daily caloric intake was somewhere around 10,000 calories a day. That's beyond over-indulgence; it's a destructive, repetitive pattern, and seeing someone break it by an apparent shift in will is something unusual and generally inspiring.
 

Diana Hignutt

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I do admit that his weight loss methods were a little misleading, but losing that much weight is a heroic thing. Who knows how many people he inspired? Even getting their ass off the couch and taking a walk around the block is something.

No, it's not heroic. Heroic implies having the courage to do something that could endanger oneself to help others. Losing weight only helps the person doing the weight loss, unless the heroic act here is reducing the medical costs to society...but since that's in that persons' best interest anyway, heroic doesn't fit. Did he do something heroic putting himself out there 15-20 years ago holding up his old XXXXL clothing? No, because he did it because he got paid shilling for a fast food place. Jared's one claim to fame is for being the Subway guy, and most people don't even remember that he was obese once. He's was no more heroic than the red-haired Wendy's chick.
 

Diana Hignutt

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I can understand someone viewing a major weight loss role model as heroic, especially for someone who is well beyond morbidly obese when they're finally motivated to lose the extra weight. (This is assuming that they *can* lose the weight and don't have extenuating genetic or glandular factors where no amount of diet or exercise will really impact their weight without medical intervention.) That kind of lifestyle change literally saves lives.

Something people tend to forget with Jared F. is that he was a self-admitted glutton, putting away multiple pizzas in a single sitting on a daily basis, which is definitely not a normal dietary plan. When the first "look what I did" commercials came out, he said his daily caloric intake was somewhere around 10,000 calories a day. That's beyond over-indulgence; it's a destructive, repetitive pattern, and seeing someone break it by an apparent shift in will is something unusual and generally inspiring.


Inspiring, sure. Not heroic.
 

AnneMarble

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And now Jared Fogle is suing Russell C. Taylor (the former head of the alleged charitable foundation) for defaulting on a house loan. The house in question? The one where Taylor is accused of filming children in secret.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money...-ex-friend-unpaid-loan-porn-scandal/71465590/

But at least Fogle will be restricted from access to children while on home detention while awaiting a plea hearing (which is still to be schedule). He is also not allowed to access pornography during that time, and access to the Internet will be restricted and monitored. (Right, I'm sure he doesn't have any printed materials hidden away...)
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ss-children-restricted-plea-hearing/32084997/
 

AnneMarble

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Ugh, there's more to this...

I meant to post this when it was in the news. At the end of October, more news came out about Jared Fogle. Working with the FBI, a woman (Rochelle Herman-Walrond, a former radio host) made tapes of conversations with Fogle. The recordings were made public. What I've heard of them is truly creepy. (I'm sure there will be some controversy about all this because some of these recordings were first aired on the Dr. Phil show, and Herman-Walrond herself spoke to Dr. Phil McGraw about her experiences.)

And what about Subway? They admitted that the same woman issued a serious complaint about Jared Fogle in 2011, but Subway said that it had been mishandled. They also had complaints from a former franchisee in 2008. Were those mishandled as well? At the same time, some are asking why the former franchisee didn't contact authorities?