Writing about a culture not your own

(Pasted from Aruna's post #16) "The question is whether you can write convincingly enough to convince and please natives of that culture, and whether they are right to doubt you."

The bolding is what I'm looking at here. To be honest, I'd say most writers would be able to craft a decent story about a culture that is not their own provided they did the necessary research beforehand. Whether it would convince and please natives of said culture is another matter. I've lived in Japan half my life, speak the language well enough, write it well enough--although my kanji knowledge still sucks--and I still don't know all the intricacies of the language or culture. Even the 'gaijin tarento' who live here, who are fluent, who've been here longer and/or have done more research, don't know everything. So if I were to write a novel about an aspect of Japanese culture, even if I've done mountains of research with experts in the field I was writing about, I would expect to be called on it by Japanese literary/cultural experts.

For the writer who wrote about China, I haven't read her novel so I cannot comment. I don't know if it's good or bad. However, I would never tell her not to write about it. At the same time, though, I cannot say anything if a native Chinese questions her about it. It is their country, after all, and they would (or should) know more about the culture having been brought up in its intricacies from birth. I would be a bit miffed if I wrote a novel, did all the research, and had it dismissed by a native without him/her having read it, but I suppose that comes with the territory.

Just my thoughts. The idea of appropriation is something I'll have a think on and get back to later when my brain is functioning a bit better.

aruna said:

I would love to see more white authors bringing more diversity into their novels, and I don't want to scare them off -- yes! Please do! But when you do be prepared to be questioned --- and I think that's what irritated me about this writer -- she didn't seem to think she should be questioned.

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This, definitely.

And really, any time you write something, you have to be prepared for criticism.

Some people won't like it, and some of them will lambaste it. Sometimes people have stupid reasons, or their criticism is levied in a way that's petty or rude. But if someone says you've portrayed someone from a different demographic from yourself in a way that's hurtful or disrespectful, it's something to consider at least.

I think it's probably pretty painful to try your hardest (and for a work to be published and therefore non-fixable) and be told you didn't get it right in some ways. And while it's always possible the person is just impossibly picky, it's also good to listen to what they said and see if there's anything you can learn about it.

Having said this, people from a given culture will not all be in agreement about the reality and norms of their own world either. I suspect it's possible to be told you did a great job by some people from that culture or demographic and to be found lacking by others.

Confusing and frustrating, but it can still be used as a learning experience.

I find this topic very interesting, as someone writing a novel set outside England but for an English audience. I have no pretension that a native of that country would think it a good representation - that would be the highest praise I could imagine, and I sincerely doubt I can hit that high - but I'd at least like to not commit enormous errors, and certainly not be offensive in my ignorance.

It's no excuse to say that I'm not writing about that culture, because setting the story there makes it about that culture anyway. I know I'm ignorant, and research - from visiting in person to reading to talking to natives - can only go so far. I hope that's enough.

Robert Dawson said:

After reading the original article, I find myself wondering: would those Westerners who agree with the anonymous Chinese speaker that Barker, as a Westerner, "can never understand the Chinese" tell a writer like Kazuo Ishiguro (The Remains Of The Day) to his face that, being Japanese, he could never understand the English? (Or, for that matter, mutter it behind his back?)

My own take on Remains is that no, it is probably not quite the book that any English novelist would have written - but that because of Ishiguro's outside viewpoint and painstaking research, he has perhaps achieved insights about English society that an English novelist might not have. I don't consider those differences to be "imperfections" that need to be "owned up to." (Of course, I'm Canadian, only lived in England for six years*, and have never been nor employed a butler, so maybe my opinion is rubbish.)

Might the same be true of a Western author writing carefully enough about a non-Western society? I do not see why it is impossible.

*Aruna: I'm not parodying the "six years" of your post. That just is how long I lived in England for, honestly.

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Think of it like the language issue. You can be quite fluent even if you aren't a native speaker, but you will never speak like a truly native speaker. I can make myself understood in Japanese. But I can't speak it like a native speaker, or debate Japanese philosophical or religious thought like a native Japanese Buddhist monk might be able to, even though I know quite a bit about Japanese religion and philosophy.





If you want to write about another culture, again, go for it. But don't get cranky if a native dislikes the story, and perhaps consider learning from critiques instead of complaining about them.

I'm black, both my parents were black, I grew up in a black neighborhood, attended a black college, and yet I can write a story, base a character on myself, and know that I could be sharply criticized for not making my character black enough. I'm pretty sure that I can capture the particular culture I grew up in but still not satisfy black readers who have their own experiences and opinions on what it means to be black and what is "authentically black." I suspect this wouldn't be unique to black folks.

I read the African-American classic "The Spook Who Sat by the Door" a few decades after it was first published. Even though it was considered a revolutionary book (for its time) heralding "blackness," I remember commenting to a friend that it seemed that the book was written by a white guy who used a tourist guide to black culture. The characters lacked the nuance I felt necessary for them to be believable as black people.

So on one hand, I'm thinking that if a writer can capture some of the "realness" of a culture, whatever the culture is, he or she has a good shot at creating believable characters and situations. But on the other hand, a certain amount of research/observation is necessary if the writer is striving for a certain level of accuracy. For example, if I were basing a story in Japan, I'd be totally wrong if I had young office workers graciously allowing elderly people to get on the commuter trains first in Shinjuku. But that's how I'd describe that scene if I based it on childhood descriptions of Japanese culture, where the elderly are "revered and treated with deference." Americans would read that and not give it a second thought, especially if they grew up hearing the same thing. However, Japanese readers would know better, at least the ones in Shinjuku. They know that the office workers routinely shove the old people out of the way, get on first, and take all the seats. The elderly riders are forced to stand and crash into each other when the train takes off because they're too short and bent over to reach the safety bars. (This is based on my experiences back in 1981—hopefully things are better now.) This is the type of thing you don't pick up on unless you see it for yourself—it's probably not discussed in tourist guides or even in descriptions of Japanese culture—but it's there and it's real. And although describing a scene like this one way or the other wouldn't make or break the book, I would think it would make a big difference in how seriously the story would be taken by knowledgeable readers.

I really appreciate this thread and thanks for sharing the article! So many interesting aspects to it...

We come up against "other" all the time, and the author is right that the author's identity, background, etc., i.e., how dissimilar s/he is to the subjects of the book, can be powerful, whether talking culture, gender, occupation and so forth. There is no way around that. I wonder if it would have made any difference if she was Chinese herself, but raised in London. I think people in general do want to know "Can I trust this author?" and the author's (probably even perceived) expertise is going to make a difference.

There are some who will not read a book about their culture, gender, occupation, region, whatever unless it is written by "one of theirs." Fair enough. Unfortunately, there are so many authors who have done a terrible, terrible job of it, it's not hard to see why "natives" (of whatever culture) roll their eyes. Some may be more trivial aspects of a profession (in my profession, maybe mixing up "thesis" and "dissertation" in the US anyway) and others really offensive (this came up in a thread in the query section) which make the author look either ignorant and lazy, or arrogant.

I would absolutely defend an author's right to write whatever they please, though. I don't like the idea of an "authenticity police" dictating who can write what! I think the market can take care of that. If it sucks, it sucks. No one has to buy it or give it high ratings.

I agree completely that research, personal experience and sure, language, all contribute to people taking a work seriously. I speak-spoke (rusty now) pretty good Swahili, and as an example, women in that language do not marry, they are married. Perhaps things have changed (been many years) but certainly knowing language helps a ton! Even though my ex is Kenyan, spent quite of bit of time with him and his family there, traveled extensively in Kenya, if I were to write about Kenya, my MC would be western. I just don't have enough confidence to pull off a Kenyan MC, get inside their head.

My book now involved a white MC with a Native love interest. I have spent a lot of time consulting with my husband, who is Blackfeet, and others. The love interest does not play a huge role, and it's 1st pp so no getting in his head, but what details I do have I want right (as I can, as a white girl, get them.) I also do not have enough confidence to write about a MC who is Native because there is absolutely no way I could know enough to do that. I know others have, and I guess been quite successful (Hillerman) but I don't see myself ever being able to do that.

There are people who would never read any book written by an "other" -- a non-southerner, non-lawyer, man/woman, whatever and I get why. sometimes people get it wrong and don't care. Were I the author in the original article, I guess I'd want to know the man's objections, specifically and how he thought I could address them in the book. If he had not read it, I 'd give him a copy. Did I make language mistakes? Something specific? Or is he someone who just will not read/be comfortable with any book by a westerner? If that's the case, he'd get no argument from me, he doesn't have to read anything, but that's a different discussion (should "other" ever write? Apparently he, hypothetically, feels, "no."), not a discussion about my book in particular.

Anyway, a very good thread. Very thought provoking.

aruna said:

That's the kind of naive mistake a Westerner might make. An Indian reading this book would have immediately noticed this and been irritated. Westerners don't notice. The book has almost exclusively rave reviews on Amazon and Goodreads.

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Reminds me of The Physician. Five stars on Netflix. There are a lot of cases like that, though, where people prefer wallpaper or stereotypical settings and characters to the real thing. I think the former prevent the latter from receiving a warm reception, actually, because people absorb an idea of what X is, even if we all insist we know fiction is fiction and we don't take our entertainment as educational.