Modern world building/details

Smgrant51 · Aug 4, 2015

When I first started writing I used to want to be inside the readers head, trying to force them to see everything exactly as I imagined it. Like the whole story would be ruined if they imagined the character's bed next to the window instead of the desk or something....

Later I started reading novels more critically and taking notes of things I thought worked well. I discovered that I really liked novels where there wasn't much description and it was up to me to decide what the characters looked like etc. Since I'm writing contemporary fiction for the YA market I think the lack of description might be a good thing because it will allow readers to fill in the details using stuff from their own life. Except now I think I might have taken this idea a bit too far because I'm barely describing anything.

I recently read a book set in a small Welsh town. Some of the reviewers of this book said they were disappointed that more wasn't made of the Welsh setting. All of my (half written/abandoned) novels are set in a small Scottish town, which I haven't really spent any time describing. Since most people aren't from small towns in Scotland maybe they want/need more details about the setting and what life there is like? I haven't even named this town, it's just a made up one, based on the town I grew up in. Do you think I should be doing some more work on describing/bringing the town to life rather than just leaving it like *insert imaginary Scottish town here*? I've read so much about the importance of 'showing not telling' that I think I've become a bit paranoid about it. Surely some description/telling is needed at times?

If anyone knows of any novels with similar settings I'd love to hear about them. It would be interesting to see what other writers have done. Most of the Scottish novels I've read so far seem to be set in cities or in the Highlands/remote islands.

Thanks!

Samsonet · Aug 4, 2015

Yep, telling is definitely needed, too! "Show don't tell" is advice for when the author tells the reader everything-- the more general advice is "know when to show and when to tell".

Which doesn't mean to write ten pages describing the town at the front of the book, but you already knew that.

Many of your readers (assuming you get published in the USA) probably live in America and have never even been to Scotland. If they see the Scottish town as being just like a generic American town... well, whether they'll be disappointed depends on the reader, but it's a definite lost opportunity to introduce them to something new.

Unfortunately, I can't think of any books that are set completely in Scotland. I'll let you know if I find one.

neandermagnon · Aug 4, 2015

Trainspotting

Jamesaritchie · Aug 5, 2015

Description sells stories. It simply does. I come from a tiny town of about one hundred people. It's a farm town, kept alive by a grain elevator that sits next to a railroad in the center of town. The silver grain elevator has a large red and white checked Purina Chow sign on it southern side, and it dominates the flat landscape. It's a wonderful place to write about.

Detailed descriptions of this small town have sold stories that I have no doubt would have otherwise been extremely difficult to place. This from the editors who bought the stories. Twice editors have devoted blurb space to say how I brought the small town to vivid life, and made them want to visit the town.

Good, vivid, detailed description doesn't mean you have to ramble on for pages and pages, but it does mean you have to show readers how the town looks, sounds, smells, and feels. You have to show the faded paint, the crack in the sidewalk, and the kind of businesses found there. Above all, you have to show the reader what the people of that town are like.

Real town or fake, details matter, but you don't need pages and pages, just paragraphs. Forget all about rules, forget all about what anyone says about too much description, forget you're even writing fiction. Close your eyes and look at the town. Remember how it sounds and smells and feels. Remember the businesses and the people who run them, or use them.

Choose your details by memory. There's a reason you remember some things, that you see some details in your mind's eye, and forget others.

Describe the town as you see it, as you remember it, not as you think fiction should be written. This is your town, but I may visit it someday. If I do, I want to feel like I've been there before. I want to be able to say, "Yes, he got it right."

Calder · Aug 5, 2015

I'm afraid I sometimes find myself at odds with the "Show don't tell" school of thought. I was raised on the works of Dickens, Forster, Hardy, Conrad et al. Later I discovered other writers I admired. I still am. To my mind, to write a book is, simply, to partake in storytelling. Apart from the rules of grammar (which can and, sometimes, should be broken) there are no rules. Whatever enables you to tell the story in an engaging and vivid way has to be "right." What really matters is the skill of the storyteller. Someone who can seamlessly weave description into the narrative, or who, through imagery and use of language. can bring a scene, character, or location vividly to life in the mind of a reader can never be considered "wrong."

I have to admit that I sometimes despair when I read posts in writing forums from people who are so obviously seeking a "winning formula." They talk about POV, "Show, don't tell," parts of speech to be avoided, word-count and countless other, to my mind, secondary technicalities. There is no "winning formula." In fact, to write within the strict confines such people would impose is, in itself, formulaic and, therefore, largely doomed to failure. The simple fact is that, if your story is good enough and if you are a skilled enough storyteller, you will succeed. I suppose that what bothers me most is the way in which writing has ceased to be an art, but has become a business, where the main aim seems to be to work within the perceived guidelines and preferences of agents and publishers in the hope of acceptance and publication, rather than simply telling a good story in the most effective and engaging way.

Personally, I do not write with publication in mind. I write because I want to tell stories and because I relish the challenge of working with language to bring them to life. If I submit a work for publication it's because I think it may engage, entertain and divert people and I never consider whether my work fits the current trend, or the preferences of agents and publishers. If it's good enough, it will be accepted and brought to a wider audience. If not I will always have the satisfaction of knowing that I have created it and, if only in my eyes, it's "not bad."

blacbird · Aug 5, 2015

"Show, don't tell" is possibly the stupidest expression of advice for beginning writers. I suspect it applies mainly to the expression of emotions. I greatly prefer "Narrate, don't explain." I think (possibly in error) that that's what was intended by whoever coined the phrase. Look hard at what good narrative writers do to construct and relate their stories. Then write your story, and try not to overworry about crap like that hoary shibboleth.

caw

BethS · Aug 6, 2015

This.^^^

Adversary · Aug 6, 2015

Calder said:
I'm afraid I sometimes find myself at odds with the "Show don't tell" school of thought. I was raised on the works of Dickens, Forster, Hardy, Conrad et al. Later I discovered other writers I admired. I still am. To my mind, to write a book is, simply, to partake in storytelling. Apart from the rules of grammar (which can and, sometimes, should be broken) there are no rules. Whatever enables you to tell the story in an engaging and vivid way has to be "right." What really matters is the skill of the storyteller. Someone who can seamlessly weave description into the narrative, or who, through imagery and use of language. can bring a scene, character, or location vividly to life in the mind of a reader can never be considered "wrong."

I have to admit that I sometimes despair when I read posts in writing forums from people who are so obviously seeking a "winning formula." They talk about POV, "Show, don't tell," parts of speech to be avoided, word-count and countless other, to my mind, secondary technicalities. There is no "winning formula." In fact, to write within the strict confines such people would impose is, in itself, formulaic and, therefore, largely doomed to failure. The simple fact is that, if your story is good enough and if you are a skilled enough storyteller, you will succeed. I suppose that what bothers me most is the way in which writing has ceased to be an art, but has become a business, where the main aim seems to be to work within the perceived guidelines and preferences of agents and publishers in the hope of acceptance and publication, rather than simply telling a good story in the most effective and engaging way.

Personally, I do not write with publication in mind. I write because I want to tell stories and because I relish the challenge of working with language to bring them to life. If I submit a work for publication it's because I think it may engage, entertain and divert people and I never consider whether my work fits the current trend, or the preferences of agents and publishers. If it's good enough, it will be accepted and brought to a wider audience. If not I will always have the satisfaction of knowing that I have created it and, if only in my eyes, it's "not bad."

I like this.

When I compose music (if I had an artistic strength, it would be music), I write what I want to hear. Like some writers here who have read thousands and thousands of books, I am there with music. I find myself extremely jaded and I'm bored with 99% of the stuff in even my favorite genres. I have some favorite bands, and they've written some awesome music, but nothing is ever 'perfect'... to me. This band will have incredible presence and theater, but may be a bit one-dimensional. This other band might be wildly dynamic and a genius at songwriting, but they'll lack the intensity of some bands. This band might have the intensity that stirs me, but it might not ever relent, and there is little contrast. This band here might be PERFECT... if only for their asinine lyrical content. These other guys might be nearly perfect... but they suck live. And this last one would be mind-blowing... if they would just add this one missing element...

I'm sure it is exactly the same for writers.

So if i compose music, it is to create what no one else will, or can. I'll write the 'perfect' (to me) music. Hell, maybe someone else will even like it...

When I write a book, its the same thing. I write what I'd like to read. The story that appeals to me, in the voice I'd want to read it in. HOPEFULLY I'll accrue the skill to pull this off, and I'll be happy with it. And yeah... hell, maybe someone else will even like it...

CJMockingbird · Aug 6, 2015

The Last Wolf of Ireland sort of has that feel (obviously, it's Ireland, not Scotland, but the entire book takes place in the same town / woods). I read it as a kid and it still sticks with me.
Description is something I struggle with. I like to focus on thoughts/dialogue and so I usually go back the second time around (once I finish a chapter or something) to flesh out stuff. Then once the first draft of the book is done I can go back and trim the fat.

Modern world building/details

Smgrant51

Samsonet

Just visiting

neandermagnon

Nolite timere, consilium callidum habeo!

Jamesaritchie

Calder

blacbird

BethS

Adversary

CJMockingbird