POV and Perspective Changes in Novel

It should be possible to establish who the main character is without putting them in first person, if there's a single character who drives the plot. And if there isn't, putting one person in third person might actually confuse the readers into thinking that they're more important than they really are.

I actually remember reading about this issue on an author blog (I think it was Joe Abercrombie's) where he said he had this issue--one of his six pov characters came to him in first person, but his editor said to make them all limited third, because he didn't want to give readers the impression that the first-person pov was the plot-driving protagonist when he wasn't.

So, if there's a reason the person you consider your main character isn't standing out from the pack, I think there might be two things to ask yourself. 1. Is he/she really the character who drives the plot for all the others, and if so, why isn't this clear to your readers? 2. If no one character drives the entire plot, and in fact, each arc is equally important, how can you make it more clear to your readers that it's that kind of story (one that emerges from the interwoven arcs of more than one pov)?

As a rule, readers will default to assuming that the first pov character in the story's opening chapter is going to be the "main" character. But obviously this isn't always the case. Extreme example is George RR Martin's A Game of Thrones, which starts with a throwaway character in the prologue, then moves to Bran, who really doesn't have the most important or compelling arc of all his povs (in my opinion). Though a debut novel that is that long and with that many povs would probably be a tough sell.

The only novel I can think of right offhand that has one pov in first person and the others in third is Elizabeth Moon's Speed of Dark. I'm sure I've run across others that do the same thing, but I'm rattling my brains at the moment. What genre is your novel?

If your story is in first-person narration, and your readers are having trouble understanding who the main character is, that might not be a matter of the POV choice. It might be a matter of the POV execution. Are you sure you've rendered everything through the narrator's realm of observation, and not drifted off into things that person can't see or experience or know?

caw

Alzarakh said:

Most chapters are broken down into 4-5 scenes, these scenes switch between the MC and the other characters and overlap chronologically.

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That's a lot of rapid POV changes. Maybe that's what your readers are objecting to. With multi-POV, it usually works better to stick with one POV for at least a chapter before switching to another one. That's not to say you can't sometimes have more than one POV per chapter--you certainly can--but to be constantly jumping from one to another in nearly every chapter...it's enough to give the readers whiplash. And I would think it would be detrimental to their engagement with the story as well.

If you're going to make one of the characters into the main character, give that character the bulk of the story as well. If you're going to have multiple main characters, fine, but give each one longer scenes and full chapters. My advice, fwiw.

After further review of the OP and successive comments, I'm even having trouble understanding the basic issue here. That alone may be a signal of the problem. Matters seem to be very confused. In particular, i'm not clear on what you mean by "perspective" as different from "POV". I'm thinking your readers have the same reaction.

caw

I think what he/she's asking is that beta readers have commented that they can't figure out who among the pov characters is the protagonist (I assume the current version of the story is in limited third for all pov characters). The OP is asking if it might be a good idea to have the protagonist/main character's pov scenes in first person, and the other pov characters' scenes in third person. They are asking if anyone has seen this done or tried it themselves.

I've got a friend who is writing a novel this way, and it seems to work all right, but I don't think she's doing it because there's any confusion about who the plot-driving protagonist is in her story. I mentioned Elizabeth Moon's Speed of Dark as a published novel that uses this strategy. Most of the story is in the pov of the protagonist, and they're written in first-person, present tense. The scenes written from other povs are written in limited third (or maybe omniscient--can't remember now, as I read it a while ago).

I don't think there'd be any confusion about who the protagonist is in Moon's novel either, even if she used limited third for all characters. But her protagonist has a very distinctive voice, and her technique works pretty well for his story.

I'm still unsure that A. it's necessarily a problem to have a story where there isn't just one protagonist, and B. that if it's needed, changing the protagonist's pov to first person would help. Plenty of stories written in limited third with more than one pov, yet it's very clear who is driving the plot.

Roxxsmom said:

Plenty of stories written in limited third with more than one pov, yet it's very clear who is driving the plot.

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True, but that word in the thread title, "perspective", is causing me to frown in mystification,. I really can't comprehend what that means, in the context of the question posed.

caw

According to an earlier post it's only a year since you completed your first draft of your first novel and it could well be lack of experience and technique that is causing an apparent lack of flow and clarity in your writing.

May I suggest that if you haven't done so, you consider reading Dwight V Swain's Techniques of the Selling Writer, or Jack M Bickham's Scene & Structure (How to construct fiction with scene-by-scene flow, logic and readability).

I would suggest you also post a sample chapter in the Share-Your-Work Forum here but your post count is not yet high enough. You could still contribute to that Forum by commenting upon other folks' submissions. That would help raise your post count to the required 50 to enable you to open a thread there. Moreover, reading and spotting perceived flaws in the work of others is one excellent way of learning how to become aware of similar weaknesses in one's own work.

Good luck.

Alzarakh said:

Hi all, I'm working on editing a MS and am having a few people tell me the same thing. It's hard to pick out who the MC is. I had one person suggest that I make the MC's scenes into first person perspective and keep everyone else in third person. So basically, if there is a scene without the MC it is in third person. The other thing is that there are technically 5-6 MC's as it would be a series and follows them all separately later on.

The next thing that people now tell me is, why are you changing the perspective? Which drives me nuts as I like how the first person allows me to let the reader view the world from the characters POV.

Most chapters are broken down into 4-5 scenes, these scenes switch between the MC and the other characters and overlap chronologically.

I'm also a better writer in first person so I'd prefer to keep it if possible. But with how the story overlaps, without the other characters scenes (which the MC wouldn't know about because they aren't there) the book would be really boring until near the end when they are all together and it can be told in first person without a problem.

Has anyone successfully done this kind of thing before and have any pointers?
Is there an easier way to stay in third person but identify the MC from the other 4-5 MC's? Keeping in mind that they are all going to be their own MC's in their own way later on.

Thanks

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I'm not clear how the current version of your novel is written. Is it all in first person, with several different POVs? At first I assumed it is all in third, but upon reading the post again, I think it's all in first.

Glad you feel the replies have been helpful, but it seems to me that clarity and flow are the root causes of your issues in every scenario you have outlined above. I believe that once you learn about technique and grasp how to achieve flow and clarity you should be able to resolve these issues.
Good luck.

One thing to consider is when does your story actually start? Is there any reason to start with the kid getting ready for school, for instance, or would it be better to simply start with the scene in the laboratory?

You might want to ask yourself what event represents a departure from same old, same old for your main character or characters, and ask yourself which character is doing the things that actually drives the story's main plot? That might help you find your story's focus. It is possible to have a tale in first person or limited third where the story's pov character or narrator is not the one driving the plot--The Great Gatsby comes to mind. But in genre fiction it's most common to open with the plot-driving protagonist doing or experiencing the thing that gets the story rolling, or with a prologue that shows the inciting event/incident happening in a remote time or place (then switching to the protagonist's pov in chapter 1).

Roxxsmom said:

The only novel I can think of right offhand that has one pov in first person and the others in third is Elizabeth Moon's Speed of Dark. I'm sure I've run across others that do the same thing, but I'm rattling my brains at the moment.

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The Outlander series by Diana Gabaldon does this. All of Claire's scenes are written in first-person, while the secondary characters' scenes are told in third-person. It allows you to know that it's her story, while not being limited to her POV exclusively. I'm pretty sure I've read other novels that are written the same way.

Orianna2000 said:

The Outlander series by Diana Gabaldon does this. All of Claire's scenes are written in first-person, while the secondary characters' scenes are told in third-person. It allows you to know that it's her story, while not being limited to her POV exclusively.

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Yes, I thought of mentioning those. The first book is exclusively first-person POV, but subsequent books gradually add in other POVs.

Courtney Schafer's The Whitefire Crossing and sequel has two POVs--one first-person and one third-person.

I workshopped someone's novel once that was all in third person, but I could not figure out who the MC was supposed to be--for me, it came down to that nobody felt more important/emphasized over the other, so I couldn't focus on any particular character.

As for examples of novels told in first and third, if I'm remembering correctly, I think Haruki Murakami's Kafka on the Shore is told in alternating first and third POV. Two YA novels, Andrew Smith's The Alex Crow and John Corey Whaley's Where Things Come Back are both told in first & third POVs.

Alzarakh said:

So it's not unheard of to have a first person/third person chapter mix? This is what I was experimenting with.

@Roxxsmom I opened the story with a foreshadow event as a dream so when the MC wakes up and gets ready for school so the plot is already somewhat on it's way. The laboratory kicks off the second plot so I think they're both equally important (Following the MC's brother). Eventually all three plots are happening simultaneously between the characters until they all become one plot-line and then the story ends. Chronologically they even overlap with different characters involved and sometimes characters cross over into the other plots.

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While there are exceptions to every rule, and examples of writers who have used dream openings well, you might want to research "opening a novel with a dream." It's on the list of things many agents and editors see far too often and therefore will be extra nit picky about.

Alzarakh said:

That was partly my plan but it seems like it just confuses too many people with a cast of over 10 and 5 possible MC's. How did they resolve this?

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If I had to guess, by giving each POV character a different and compelling story line.

First of all, even if this isn't YA (and it sounds like it is) go read the Heroes of Olympus series by Rick Riordan. And take notes. It's the best ensemble series I've read. The first three books have a clear protagonist but are still written ensemble-style, and by books four and five there's not a clear main character because everyone is given equal weight. Knowledge of the Percy Jackson series is beneficial but not required.

Second, from my own perspective, I tend to have two MCs who are given almost equal weight as far as the actual telling of the story goes, but there's always one MC. In one of my books you don't really know which one it is until midway through, because until the midpoint the real hero is hiding in the shadows while the secondary MC goes to war. In another I actually open with the non-MC character because he performs the inciting incident.

Third, I'm going to agree with a couple things. First, don't open with a dream sequence. It's not going to set your book apart. It's going to make it that much harder to grip your reader. Second, don't jump POVs within a chapter.

One way you could try to do it (I have no evidence if this works or not) is to have the MC's scenes in limited third and everyone else's in omniscient. Then the focus comes off the secondary characters a bit.

Finally, the questions I ask myself when it comes time to do a synopsis or query, the questions I think every writer should be able to answer: WHOSE story is this? WHY is this their story? And why is THIS their story?

Hope this helps! Good luck!