Question about Agent Negotiation w/ Publisher

I came across this post on Janet Reid's blog that both answers my question about PM, and has some good general questions to ask an agent about sales if they don't post on PM (or do it inconsistently).

Perks said:

Caffeine has not been uploaded this morning yet.

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Step away from the keyboard.

Angry Guy said:

Step away from the keyboard.

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Wait. I've had coffee AND tea now. Can I stay? Please?!

Luzoni said:

It's been fun chatting here...at least it distracts me from the hopelessness of waiting. Hasn't stopped me from quietly freaking with excitement every time I get an email, even knowing it's going to be junk mail.

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Oh, I have a terrible story about that. So, I wrote one book and queried it to death and got nowhere. Between that novel and one short story, I racked up nearly a hundred rejections. That's a hundred times of getting an email (or my SASE back in the mailbox - I'm that old) with my heart in my mouth, doubthopewishing that this time, it would be a yes. It never was.

So I wrote another book (all the rejection gave me plenty of time to read more and write more and get better at what I was attempting to do), queried it a bit and got an agent. Woo hoo! Happy days! My time of heart-sinking clicking on emails is ov--- oh wait. Shit. Now we start over with my hands trembling to click for the news about submissions. I was a maniac. I couldn't stop refreshing my email. How 'bout now? Now? Okay, go make the beds and then you can check again. How 'bout now?

*sigh*

Well, one morning, there was an email in my inbox. You know how, in your email, you can see the sender, the subject line, and a few words of the body of the email? This one was from my agent, with a subject line about my book, and the opening line of "Finally, finally! Some good..."

I almost had a heart attack. My hands were shaking so hard that I knocked the mouse halfway across the desk when I lunged to click for the rest of the message. Imagine my face when the next word turned out to be "weather".

"Finally, finally! Some good... weather."

I emailed back a screenshot of what I could see and told my agent. "Yeah, thanks for that. Now I'm having scotch for breakfast."

When's the last time you were in touch with your agent?

I can't say whether the deal sounds legit or not, but it does sound like your agent is overloaded with having a full-time job and her own writing in addition to agenting. A legit agent isn't always the same thing as a good one. Be sure she's representing you well and working for your best interests.

Perks said:

I almost had a heart attack. My hands were shaking so hard that I knocked the mouse halfway across the desk when I lunged to click for the rest of the message. Imagine my face when the next word turned out to be "weather".

"Finally, finally! Some good... weather."

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Be thankful you weren't checking your email on your phone, or you'd need a new phone.

This is why I am going to self publish.

RightHoJeeves said:

This is why I am going to self publish.

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Yeah I know right? I mean, god forbid we have some patience, take the time to do some things, don't have instant gratification.

Look, I'm all for self publishing. There are many excellent reasons to do it. A reason not to? Impatience.

Toothpaste said:

Yeah I know right? I mean, god forbid we have some patience, take the time to do some things, don't have instant gratification.

Look, I'm all for self publishing. There are many excellent reasons to do it. A reason not to? Impatience.

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Hey now, I'm not advocating instant gratification. I'm not saying people should whip up something then just throw it up online as soon as they've typed 'the end'. Self publishers need to spend the time and money to make sure their product can compete with trade published stuff.

I know the publishing industry is very slow, but waiting around for months and months while people may or may not get back to me just does not sound like a fulfilling way to do things. It would send me insane. Maybe this wasn't the right place to say it, because the OP does have a deal, which is great. But there is a difference between "being impatient" and "wanting things to happen sometime this month".

I agree, this likely is the wrong venue to say it. As you yourself said, the OP isn't talking about waiting around to hear if they have a deal, the OP is waiting around for a contract which is something that has so much red tape in every industry. Paper work is always notoriously slow.

And fine, if waiting is not fulfilling to you that's perfectly okay you are free to choose whatever option works best for you. But I still maintain that "wanting things to happen this month" when it's just not always possible IS being impatient. Because it isn't all about you. It isn't all about your timeline. It isn't all that matters. And just because you want it to be faster doesn't mean it ought to be nor that it is wise to be. I just had my book release pushed back several months. Yes, that means I have to wait longer, but would it have been better for my book to come out in direct competition with major authors and celebs who were releasing at the time of my original release? Where no one would notice my book and it would get buried? Or is it better to wait a couple months so my book has a chance of standing out?

At any rate, like I said, I think self publishing can be a great tool and I love that authors now have more control over their careers. But again, sometimes slow and steady is a good thing. And once you have an agent and a publisher you aren't in the situation of "may or may not get back to me". You know that they will, and they do. And I do think a lot of the people who push self publishing over all other kinds of publishing do push the whole not having to wait angle. As well as the vilifying of editors and agents angle (which the "may or may not get back to me" thing also plays into, as if all agents and editors are all selfish and don't care that authors are waiting on them. I mean, heck an agent in another thread here just today found it really distasteful that any agent would not get back to someone in a timely fashion). Which is why I react quite strongly to it.

Self publish because you have a book that suits a very small niche. Self publish because you are a wizard at marketing, maybe used to run the department at a big 5 and have crazy good connections and an amazing book on top of that. Self publish because what you have sits on the borders of too many different genres and no one knows where to place it. Self publish because you don't really care if you sell any books but just want your friends to be able to read what you've written.

But I just don't think one ought to self publish because the process is slow. It's not the right reason in my opinion, and throwing a casual "that's why I'm self publishing" as a response to someone waiting isn't helpful. It just perpetuates stereotypes and myths. And honestly, I don't think that's why you're self publishing at all. I think you likely have many many more important reasons to do it than the trade route taking too long.

Toothpaste said:

But I just don't think one ought to self publish because the process is slow. It's not the right reason in my opinion, and throwing a casual "that's why I'm self publishing" as a response to someone waiting isn't helpful.

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Fair call. Apologies for derailing the thread.

The contract process is pretty slow. It can take months, even with a large agency and prior deals to work from. Typically, I don't report deals to PM Until both I and the publisher have signed the contract (call me superstitious... )

If you're confident in your agent's abilities, hang in there. But just FYI, I do have a subscription to Publisher's Marketplace and can look up her prior deals if you like. Just PM me her name and the name you're writing under and I'll take a look.

lizmonster said:

Something of an aside - but I got the impression that PM announcements were paid for by the agency, and not the publisher? And as I think about it, I'm not sure exactly where I got that idea; but it would explain some of the inconsistent reporting. Does anybody know if that's the case, or if my brain somehow made that up?

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No one pays for an announcement. Submitting them can be done by any PM member at no cost (other than your $20/month membership fees).

Agents generally submit them, with the editor's blessing.

Luzoni said:

I'll contact my agent again this week to ask if there's been any back and forth between her and the publisher that I don't know about. This is a teensy tiny publisher, but with a very solid rep. I'd feel better if I had contact with the publisher, but it seems like that's not going to happen until contract is signed. The contract has parts for revisions to specify timeline and such but it doesn't seem to be a priority at the moment. Many ppl here said the publisher had an editor assigned to them right away and began editing before contracts had been signed. That doesn't seem to be happening here.

This publisher did take a little over a year to read the MS and decide they wanted it. So...I hope it doesn't take them another year to get the contract dealt with. They want to look at my next MS, but the thought of how long all this has taken first time around makes me anxious, even tho you guys have been great at reassuring me not to worry and that this process is slow...glaciers apparently move faster. I can't help but wonder if a different publisher would move a little faster. Plus I'm hoping the next MS goes to a bigger publisher anyway, regardless of speed.

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Firstly every time someone on AW says an agent or publisher has a "very solid rep" I cringe a little because I see it SO OFTEN with agents and publishers I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole. It's shockingly easy for an agent or publisher to have a "very good rep" to writers who are at arm's length, and meanwhile 90% of agents are like "oh god that's a shmagent" or "that is a publisher I won't submit to even if my clients request it." So please, don't rely on a reputation to sell you on things, rely also on their actions to date. With both your agent and your publisher.

You started asking questions in JULY, acknowledging that you were confused about whether you had an offer, and even your agent was confused (how is this not a quick clarification by your agent to the publisher? Why would she receive a contract and say "wait, is this a formal offer?") and it's now been three months. have you even seen the draft contract, along with your agents notes/requests? How long does it take your agent to review and comment on a contract, and how long does it take the publisher to reply to said requests?

Is this publisher a one-man show? A contracts person can work with your agent while your editor works on moving the book through production (edits, copyedits, typesetting, etc). Why is editorial twiddling their thumbs?

This whole thing just sounds so vague and slow and your agent appears to be doing very little to spur the process along.

You may be right, Luzoni, but it sounds very odd.

Your agent does not have the phone number of the editor she submitted your manuscript to? And the publisher isn't listed in the phone book and doesn't have a phone number on their website? It's not on the contract draft she has a copy of? How does your agent talk to editor(s) at this house and pitch her clients' work? I thought this contact info was standard shared info among agents and editors.

Quickbread said:

You may be right, Luzoni, but it sounds very odd.

Your agent does not have the phone number of the editor she submitted your manuscript to? And the publisher isn't listed in the phone book and doesn't have a phone number on their website? How does your agent talk to editor(s) at this house and pitch her clients' work? I thought this contact info was standard shared info among agents and editors.

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It's only my opinion but this really reeks to me. We don't have phone numbers? What, is she sending them notes by pigeon?

I'm not sure if the fault is with your agent or the publisher. You stated before, IIRC, that your agent is also an author. That concerns me - an agent is an agent; their sole job is to sell your work. If she's taking time out to work on her own book and/or sell her work then she's not working for you.

This may be legit but I'm seeing red flags all over the place. But then, not my agent and not my book.

Sheryl Nantus said:

It's only my opinion but this really reeks to me. We don't have phone numbers? What, is she sending them notes by pigeon?

I'm not sure if the fault is with your agent or the publisher. You stated before, IIRC, that your agent is also an author. That concerns me - an agent is an agent; their sole job is to sell your work. If she's taking time out to work on her own book and/or sell her work then she's not working for you.

This may be legit but I'm seeing red flags all over the place. But then, not my agent and not my book.

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Plenty of agents are also writers, including Mandy Hubbard who posted above. What concerns me is that this agent apparently also has a full-time job. It suggests to me that she can't support herself with her agent work, which suggests she might not be the best agent. The other option is that she's new and building up a stable of authors to support herself, but I thought somewhere it said she has dozens of clients--in which case she should really be past that stage.