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but I'm finishing things, and I'm writing from the heart...

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Layla Nahar

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You often hear 'finish it, put it on the market and keep it there' and that writing the stories you would like to read are two keys to getting published. But I'm looking at what I've written and wondering - is there something I'm missing - like that there's another ingredient to writing a selling piece that I'm just 'color blind' to.

So, is it really the case that if you write the stories you would like to read that you will find a market? I'm wondering…
 

celoise

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I read a blog the other day about writers who found success after putting two, three, four books out there. When asked what was different about the "bestseller" they finally had, they couldn't really point to anything. They put heart into all their works and did the same amount of promo for each. So, just based on that, "keep plugging away" is always the best advice.
 

Jamesaritchie

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So, is it really the case that if you write the stories you would like to read that you will find a market? I'm wondering…

Yes, but you really want to read stories that are well-written, that have a great story, and that have characters who come off the page and speak to you. Writing what you would like to read if someone else wrote it is a great thing, but it still needs all these ingredients.
 

BethS

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So, is it really the case that if you write the stories you would like to read that you will find a market? I'm wondering…

No. They have to also be a good tale told well.

I think one reason (and there are, of course, other reasons) many writers fail to place their book with an agent or publisher is that they don't take the time to make the story as good as it could be. Chances are, there could be more tension, higher stakes, deeper character development, better prose, a fresher style--any or all of those. Agent Don Maass says that the main reason manuscripts are rejected in his office is that they're not yet ready for prime time. That doesn't mean they will never be, but there's still work to be done on them. But writers get in a rush. Or some do.

It isn't a race. Take the time to get it right.
 

dondomat

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To use a hoary bearded example, John Saul "would like to read" international thrillers, but found out he writes best horror-suspense. I "would like to read" hard sci-fi, but hard science burnssss, so that's the one thing I won't be writing.

I think the breakthrough novel/story is frequently the one where the writer finally manages to honestly harness what really, really interests him, angers him, outrages him, soothes him, and so on. Then the manuscript acquires authentic animating energy--a divine spark of actual emotions and opinions--and the book (the mechanics of structure and style being already more or less there, we assume)--crosses over into breakthrough territory. Or real, deep fascination to the point of empathy, of some concept or event or person.

Examples:
King works as teacher, appalled at what monsters kids and parents are, writes Carrie
Koontz finally manages to work through bad childhood. Writes Whispers
Harris--fascinations turned into creativity--Silence of the Lambs
Bloch--fascinations turned into creativity--Psycho
Martin--feels the times need an apologia of Enlightenment Humanism--shows alternative without rose filter--Game of Thrones
Blatty--fascinated with Catholic stuff. Writes Exorcist
Benchley--fascinated with sharks. Writes Jaws
Herbert--fascinated with ecology of beach, interest expands. Writes Dune
Dashiel Hammett, Raymond Chandler, Jim Thompson, Ross Macdonal, John D Macdonald--want to describe existential and social realism, with some disguised preaching thrown in. Hide it inside crime plots
Graham Greene, John le Carre--want to describe existential and social realism, with some disguised preaching thrown in. Hide it inside spy adventure plots
 
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quicklime

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You often hear 'finish it, put it on the market and keep it there' and that writing the stories you would like to read are two keys to getting published. But I'm looking at what I've written and wondering - is there something I'm missing - like that there's another ingredient to writing a selling piece that I'm just 'color blind' to.

So, is it really the case that if you write the stories you would like to read that you will find a market? I'm wondering…

I would say as I understand your question, at least, obviously not or most folks would be succeeding. I know very few people who write with a primary eye towards chasing markets, and those who do I am not convinced are doing any better than those who do not....

there are a lot of intangibles that make stories resonate; there were certainly vampire love stories before Twilight, and arguably far better-written ones, which never took of....and books about S&M before 50 Shades, and folks like Matheson and Bradbury who did ok in horror but never sold the way King did. 50 Shades started with a huge head of steam and buzz, which helped. Twilight, I'm not even sure how it took off. And Carrie launched King, but I found it to be one of his weaker works, imho. Still, somehow, they caught on and resonated in ways their "peers" did not. Timing, market buzz, and a bunch of other things helped raise them out of what could have been complete obscurity....and in many ways, it just happened.

They wrote the stories they wanted to write, presumably, but so did a lot of other folks who didn't write well enough, or didn't resonate with a publisher and/or with the market, or who wrote the wrong stories at the wrong time.
 

jjdebenedictis

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So, is it really the case that if you write the stories you would like to read that you will find a market? I'm wondering…
No.

If you're writing the stuff you're passionate about writing, then you'll write the best stories you are capable of writing, and that gives you your best chance of finding a market.

But that's no guarantee there is a market for what you write.

Worry about what you can control, such as "finish it" and "put it on the market" and "keep it there" and "write the best stuff you can". Don't worry about the stuff you can't control, which includes how your best work gets received by others.
 

WriterDude

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Well I hope it's true. I am writing the story I think should be told. I have no idea where to pitch it when it's done or even if anyone will bat an eye lid.

I suppose the point though is that an unfinished Un published book will never find a market ever.
 

CathleenT

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Uh, Layla, I've read your writing and I like it. And I'm not an easy room. (Just saying.)

It could be better. So could mine. Find some betas you really trust (which takes a whole lot of beta swaps in my experience), and polish your stories until they sparkle. Send them out, and if they don't find homes, go through another round of crit. You can always put together a collection of short stories or publish them on your blog, give them away to people who sign up for your email list, etc. There are indirect ways to make money off your stories, too.

But be reasonably patient with them. I put H&G away for three months. I would have sworn I couldn't make it any better. It had seven betas, for pity's sake. But I grew enough as a writer in those three months to make a difference.

Don't know it that's any help. But it was meant well. :)
 
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Usher

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So, is it really the case that if you write the stories you would like to read that you will find a market? I'm wondering…

An agent or publisher might be a struggle. I've not had too much trouble finding people to read my stories and I get great agent feedback but (and there is always one of those) I'm not good at sticking within genre lines as either a reader or a writer ;)

So I'm learning the trade and going to publish it myself.
 

ElaineA

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I've read so many stories I absolutely adore (as a beta, or just for a read) that haven't found a home. I've betaed books I didn't think were close which did get repped, so I don't think there's a "thing" you might be blinded about. As others have said, it's usually an aligning of factors. JAR's "character that speaks to you" might be another person's ideal of the vilest character ever. It's so personal, and that you have no control over. If your story "speaks," someone will love it.

What WriterDude says is undoubtedly true. A story that never gets out there can never be published. All you can do is tell your story the best you can, swallow hard and hit send. And then learn and grow from whatever happens next.
 

jjdebenedictis

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When no submission works, ever, how in the multiverse do you manage that?

caw
Just don't worry about it? :) I mean, you should write because you want to write, and it's fine if one of your personal goals is to get published, but if that never happens, you're still a worthwhile person who pursued your dreams and did something with your life. It's nice when other people like the art you create, but it isn't necessary (unless you quit your day job; never quit your day job, omg.)
 

dondomat

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I lol'd. Honestly, I just keep wondering if dondomat is ever going to read a book written by a woman. I think there are some out now.

Balderdash. Everyone knows the uterus interferes with text structuring, especially when it dries out and journeys throughout the body as result of the stresses upon the spleen (and the resulting disharmony of the humors) from naturally male activities such as chariot racing or even simple symposia kottabossing.
 
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celoise

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Balderdash. Everyone knows the uterus interferes with text structuring, especially when it dries out and journeys throughout the body as result of the stresses upon the spleen (and the resulting disharmony of the humors) from naturally male activities such as chariot racing or even simple symposia kottabossing.

You've convinced me. Let's get married. <3
 

dondomat

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You've convinced me. Let's get married. <3

Thank you, fair lady, but I must decline. I have first to fulfill my vow of driving the Saracen out of Cordova. Not to mention that a lady proposing to a man is a clear sign of witchery and blatant devil-worship.

Now, about this opinion: Martin--feels the times need an apologia of Enlightenment Humanism--shows alternative without rose filter--Game of Thrones

Why don't I just reduce it to its components over coffee N2...

Apologia:

Humanism:
a doctrine, attitude, or way of life centered on human interests or values; especially : a philosophy that usually rejects supernaturalism and stresses an individual's dignity and worth and capacity for self-realization through reason

The Enlightenment:
a philosophic movement of the 18th century marked by a rejection of traditional social, religious, and political ideas and an emphasis on rationalism
Alternative:

Rose-tinged glasses:
Also:rose-colored excessively optimistic
 
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jjdebenedictis

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Nope, still doesn't make sense, Dondo; sorry. Convoluted sentence was convoluted.
 

dondomat

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Nope, still doesn't make sense, Dondo; sorry. Convoluted sentence was convoluted.

I know what will fix it. Arrows and equals and colons!*


Martin: feels the times need an apologia of Enlightenment Humanism-->shows alternative without rose filter=Game of Thrones


262li4w.jpg


____
* ...I know, sounds like awesome pagan gay utopia.
 
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BethS

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When no submission works, ever, how in the multiverse do you manage that?

caw

I know I've said this before, but the little tidbits I've seen of your writing are very good, so I don't think the prose is at fault. Don't know what else might be, if anything.
 

quicklime

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I know I've said this before, but the little tidbits I've seen of your writing are very good, so I don't think the prose is at fault. Don't know what else might be, if anything.


I will gladly second this...blac, when you aren't self-flagellating, are one of the most astute and precise people on the board.

That means you make me fucking nuts when you throw pity-parties, but it also means that there is a certain element of luck in pubbing, and that you have some very real talent which I also feel is, sadly going unrecognized. I'm not sure if fortune conspires against you or you actively sabotage your own work with your Eeyore vibe, but you're one of the folks I respect most here, when you're being straight-up. Given a night out for beers I'm not sure if I'd kick the shit out of you for the vibe you give here or we'd end up with matching EtOH-induced tats, but you really have the chops. Bottom line is that isn't the end-all/be-all of a successful career. It just isn't.
 

quicklime

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Yes! Much better! Everything's better with colons!


especially the consistency of one's stool.


(sorry, knew a guy with Crohn's in grad school and that was the very first thought that popped into mind.......)
 
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